Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The opposite is the truth. You know that! You are obviously running out of arguments.
Where have I ever said that?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
You deny those beheaded are given a physical body and literally live on earth for the next 1,000 years.
You deny Lazarus still has his resurrection body and has been enjoying Paradise for almost 2 millenia.
You deny the OT left Abraham's bosom and were given physical bodies just like Lazarus and have been enjoying Paradise since resurrection Sunday.
You deny every redeemed soul has entered Paradise in a permanent incorruptible physical body since the thief on the Cross.
You only allow a single resurrection at the end of your defined time period.
None of the dead shall be physically resurrected before an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer. These faithful beheaded living souls John sees in heaven lived and reigned with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years. It's because they were faithful unto death that John sees this spiritual body of believers alive in heaven after physical death.
When the dead shall be resurrected immortal and incorruptible, made alive again through the spirit that returns with Christ, they shall be whole again with immortal body of flesh, and eternal spirit fit to live as once again complete humans with Christ forever on the new earth.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Those in Christ are redeemed and not the dead.
Why do you call those with the second birth the dead?
Those beheaded were only redeemed after they stood at those thrones, and given eternal life. Those beheaded were not Christians. The only testimony they had was that they chopped off their heads, to avoid the mark of the beast, after the 7th Trumpet had already sounded.
You keep putting these beheaded prior to that last trumpet sound, whatever you mean by that. The mark is not even relative until after time is no more. The mark of the beast in Revelation 13 is a time stamp showing those humans lived past the end of time for being redeemed. The mark is after the 7th Trumpet in Revelation. The mark is after time is over to become a Christian. The mark is the removal of the Second Birth. The mark is the removal of one's name from the Lamb's book of life. Those beheaded chop off their head to keep their name written in the Lamb's book of life.
Being beheaded is not symbolic of living on earth the last 2,000 years. Being beheaded only happens after the Second Coming, after the final harvest, and after the 7th Trumpet mentioned in Revelation 11.
They are given life, a physical body. Only then do they reign a thousand years on the earth, during the Day of the Lord. They are redeemed, but have no rewards, because they were only saved on the account they chopped their heads off. They were not punished in sheol, so slightly better off than the rest of the dead who are given eternal life after spending thousands of years in sheol because they rejected God while in their physical bodies.
Those beheaded were the last of the dead to be redeemed. But their redemption was given when they were judged standing before those thrones, not while they physically lived. The rest of the dead would not be redeemed until after the thousand years, standing before the GWT. The rest of the dead waited in sheol and in death, until that future judgment.
The church in Christ will never stand in judgment as the dead. That judgment was poured out on the Cross, and the Lamb of God carried that judgment sentence of death for the church. That is why the church is in Christ. The church will stand at a rewards ceremony, but not a judgment to determine if they have eternal life or eternal condemnation.
The beheaded stood in judgment to be granted the second birth, and the first resurrection, and the best they received was the ability to live on the earth with Christ and subdue the earth for a thousand years.
The church has been physical seated and reigning with Christ in Paradise since the Cross. They have been serving God day and night in that heavenly temple. They have had physical permanent, incorruptible bodies. They are not the dead, nor have they tasted death since the Cross. They received the second birth while physically alive. They received the first resurrection when their soul left this physical body of death and corruption, and put on God's permanent incorruptible physical body that has eternal life. Yes, some have been beheaded. But certainly not like those mentioned in Revelation 20.
How is rejecting a future 1000 years on earth denying a future physical resurrection? You really talk some nonsense at times. What you are saying is, people do not agree with you are not orthodox in their beliefs. That is delusional!
Like most orthodox Christians, I believe the physical resurrection of all mankind occurs at the second coming of Christ. That is when glorification happens. Not before then. That is when the dead in Christ receive their new bodies. You can fight with me if you want, but to fight the Word of God is utter folly.
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
There are Orthodox Christians who accept the resurrection at the start of the Millennium. And that is not even the resurrection of all mankind.
Paul only claims the redeemed are resurrected at the Second Coming.
You, like most who change Scripture deny the resurrection of Lazarus, and the entire OT body of redeemed resurrected out of Abraham's bosom.
So, no, saying "all mankind" is meaningless. Jesus is not waiting for the Second Coming to be resurrected, and last I checked he would be part of "all mankind", or you are not an Orthodox Christian to deny Jesus was human.
I'm here for those who are open to Scripture. I'm not here for people like you who want to attack and belittle those who do not agree with you.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Being open to Scripture does not give you a license to say the Day of the Lord is overrun with goat infested , sin infested , Satanist, yet you still post such trash.
You asked:
You claim one single resurrection of all mankind.
Then when I point out in Scripture other resurrections, you claim I am attacking you.
Instead of running your mouth off, answer these simple questions that expose your claims:
- Is there sin in you're supposed future "day of the Lord"?
- Is there death in you're supposed future "day of the Lord"?
- Are there sinners in you're supposed future "day of the Lord"?
No! You have never shown this – never. All you've showed is your lack of corroboration and the rest of the Bible. All you have showed is your misrepresentation of one lone much-debated and highly-symbolic passage in the most figurative setting in Scripture - three chapters before the end of the Bible. Hello! You invent a new age that is unknown to the rest of Scripture, by forcing a chronological interpretation on the book of Revelation. This is grossly wrong. This is distorting the whole prophecy and repeated recaps. You force an arbitrary private interpretation upon this tax that enjoys zero corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. That is why it should be rejected out of hand! Bible students should see the folly of it.
Can you give me one single passage in the whole Bible that talks about "resurrections" (plural)? I will not hold my breath! That is because you do not have it! You know that! All you have is these wild unsubstantiated claims!
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Lazarus never defeated the grave. I am talking about man receiving his eternal body. Jesus is the first resurrection. I have told you that numerous times.
Obviously you have nothing to support your future resurrection/judgment days theory. That is very apparent. That might explain why you avoid so many questions.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
No one can resurrect themselves. Was Lazarus resurrected?
Please explain this concocted theory you falsely claim about me.
You have avoided the simple question is 2 Corinthians 5:1 a resurrection.
You have avoided the simple question is the first resurrection a resurrection. You call the first resurrection a person.
Is the resurrection just a person then, and not an actual change to any human?
Even those in Christ are destined to physical death!
The Bible says we must be born again! That's not a second birth, that's a spiritual birth through the Spirit of Christ within for those who before being born again were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins.
Not so! They were beheaded because in life before they were killed they were redeemed and they remained faithful unto death. That's why John tells us they are living souls in heaven after physical death, because before they were martyred for their faith they lived and reigned with Christ during their lives, symbolically written a thousand years. Because they have eternal life through the Spirit of Christ within them, and who will be with them until they are reunited with an immortal/incorruptible resurrected body of flesh, made physically alive again through their spirit that returns with Christ.
The first resurrection was that of Jesus Christ. It was a real bodily resurrection. He was the first to conquer the grave. Lazarus was not that person.
- Is there sin in you're supposed future "day of the Lord"?
- Is there death in you're supposed future "day of the Lord"?
- Are there sinners in you're supposed future "day of the Lord"?
- Can you give me one single passage in the whole Bible that talks about "resurrections" (plural)? I will not hold my breath! That is because you do not have it! You know that! All you have is these wild unsubstantiated claims!
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Destined to physical death?
No. That is the point they receive a permanent incorruptible physical body, ie eternal life. That is not being destined to death, but everlasting life.
The word "dissolved" in 2 Corinthians 5:1 is an interesting word. When a contract is nullified it is dissolved. The union between Adam's dead flesh and the soul is nullified/dissolved at the point of physical death. In fact Paul wanted this contract with death to be dissolved as soon as possible, but knew that God still needed him in this current contract.
The thief on the Cross would be in Paradise that day, when the contract with Adam's dead corruptible flesh was dissolved.
The Bible says we must be born again is not a second birth?
You are missing the point like Nicodemus in John 3.
The first birth is physical through the water of the womb. The second birth is spiritual through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Two births, one physical the other spiritual. The word two implies a first birth and a second birth. Not a second physical birth. Jesus said you must be born again. You are having issues with that word "again".
To physically live again involves the physical death to happen, in order to live again. The second birth is not being physically born again, it means the spiritual birth while one is physically alive. The first resurrection cannot be the spiritual birth while one is still physically alive. The first resurrection can only happen after the first death, ie physical death. Jesus experienced a first resurrection 3 days and 3 nights after physical death. Jesus is also the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus is not the first resurrection experience. The firstfruits in Christ are all those who have experienced the first resurrection. They are physically alive in Paradise, and have been since 30AD.
Those beheaded were faithful in life?
No they were not! If they had been, they would have left earth prior to those 42 months in which they chose to chop their heads off.
You have attached some spiritual symbolic meaning to what John refers to as merely a physical act. Do you not accept this is literally a physical head being removed from a literal physical body? Having a physical head removed is the only act of faith they have ever done in their entire physical life. It is either receive a physical mark, or remove their physical head. This option is only available during the last 42 months prior to the battle of Armageddon. This is not some ongoing symbolic act that is not physical over hundreds of years.
You are also missing the point of being martyred. The word "witness" in that verse is their only confession of faith. They were not martyred because they had faith. They chopped their heads off as their only act of faith. Some translations use testimony. The Greek word martur is the root word of martyr.
The concept is not as dying for their faith. The concept is that their testimony or witness was their only acceptance of Jesus Christ. The point of their standing in judgment before thrones also points to the fact they did not have the second birth. The judgment given to them was both the second birth and physical life at the same time. So they did not receive the second birth while physically alive. It was granted to them as they were standing as souls in judgment. They were made alive at that point. And that being made alive, is what John called the first resurrection. The first time that term is used in Scripture.
There is a difference between who is judged after physical death, and who is Judged in Christ on the Cross. Those with the second birth of the Holy Spirit are not judged, not even at the GWT Judgment. Those of the second birth are not part of the dead, in no way, shape, or form who stand at the GWT Judgment. And those judged prior to the thousand years before thrones, are not judged again for the second death.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
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