Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming

[jeffweeder]

Were Adam and Eve redeemed and believers before Adam disobeyed God?

There was no reason for Adam and Eve to be redeemed before the fall.

How about after Adam disobeyed and they were banned from the Garden?

God immediately promised redemption once they fell. The seed of the woman, which was Jesus, would bring eternal life back for the Human race for all who would believe in him.

You explain to me their salvation experience, and then you may show how well you understand what creation is supposed to be.

God filled them with hope of a future time when Jesus Christ would crush the serpents head and take possession of the keys of death.

Creation is not supposed to be about sin and death.

Creation was about God desiring fellowship with man forever.

I doubt you even understand what it means to be a son of God.

Being a Son of God is all about embracing and believing in what Jesus has done for us.

If you had an understanding of what it means to be a son of God, you would still be a Premil.

Not so.
you would be Amill, and expect full and total restoration in the place Jesus has gone to prepare for us when he returns a second time to glorify us. You will behold that the almighty God will then tabernacle with the redeemed on a restored NHNE FOREVER AMEN.

 

[WPM]

There was no reason for Adam and Eve to be redeemed before the fall.




God immediately promised redemption once they fell. The seed of the woman, which was Jesus, would bring eternal life back for the Human race for all who would believe in him.



God filled them with hope of a future time when Jesus Christ would crush the serpents head and take possession of the keys of death.


Creation was about God desiring fellowship with man forever.



Being a Son of God is all about embracing and believing in what Jesus has done for us.

Not so.
you would be Amill, and expect full and total restoration in the place Jesus has gone to prepare for us when he returns a second time to glorify us. You will behold that the almighty God will then tabernacle with the redeemed on a restored NHNE FOREVER AMEN.

It seems like: if you do not agree with him, you do not know God.

 

[rwb]

It seems like: if you do not agree with him, you do not know God.

Exactly!

 

[Hobie]

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 declares: “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 continues: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

The prime focus of these passages is “the resurrection of the dead” and the termination of death. This is the time when corruption is finally banished from the earth forever. This is the occasion when the redeemed "inherit the kingdom of God." This is the much-anticipated arrival of the new creation in all its visible, glorious, perfect and eternal glory.

But when does this happen?

Both of these passages demonstrate that this occurs at the “coming” (or parousia) of the Lord, which is described as “the last trump.” It also confirms that this ushers in “the end.” This is the closing curtain of time, sin, corruption and mortality. We are now into eternity. No one could therefore argue with any validity that death is not finally and eternally destroyed at the second coming, the time here denoted as “the end.”

Only the perfected inherit the coming earth

These texts demonstrate that for one to inherit the age and state to come, glorification is necessary: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” The kingdom age to come (after this age) is perfect. It is incorrupt. Every vestige of the Fall is removed. No mortal can inherit/inhabit or possess this great incorrupt state. It is solely the domain of the glorified. It is eternal. It is not governed by time, as our age is. Time indeed shall be no more when Jesus returns.

This eliminates the oft-stated Premillennial claim that the unsaved can in fact inhabit the new earth. Regardless of whether one is saved or not, if they aren’t glorified, they cannot inherit the new earth. No mortal shall inhabit it.

It is plain to see from these texts: for man to be able to inherit the new glorified earth – which is totally free of the curse – he must be adequately prepared for it. The eternal state is indeed a prepared place for a prepared people.

Man’s whole sinful makeup must be completely changed in order to allow him to grace it. Every vestige of the Fall must be divested before entering into that new arrangement. This is accomplished by way of glorification. The invisible inner man is not only changed (as in conversion), but Paul speaks of a complete bodily change. Whilst we have “earthly” bodies now, at the Lord’s coming we will have new “spiritual” bodies. Our current bodies that are corruptible must be changed into incorruptible ones, so that no trace of the curse remains. Paul presents glorification as the means by which this supernatural metamorphous occurs.

Our “earthly” bodies will be changed to “spiritual” bodies that are completely devoid of sin and corruption. The saints will undergo the same simultaneous transformation that creation experiences. The creature is thus then adequately prepared to inherit the new incorrupt glorified earth. Both can now live in perfect harmony in God’s new eternal order. This arrangement will never again be blighted by the bondage of corruption. Man and creation enter into a new irreversible eternal arrangement.

Then [Gr. tote]

Let us zoom in on the end of this passage: “So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then [Gr. tote] shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:54-55).

Here is irrefutable evidence of when “death” is finally defeated and “swallowed up in victory.” It occurs when the redeemed are glorified. It is realized “when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality.” This exposes the Premillennialism paradigm. It forbids its actual possibility. This passage proves that it happens at the second coming of Christ.

Premillennialist writer Alexander Reese confirms the meaning of the Greek word tote in The Approaching Advent of Christ, whilst referring to another parallel second coming passage in Matthew 13:43, saying, “Then (tote, at that time) shall the righteous shine forth.”

So, it is "then" (tote) at the last trump, and not till then, that death is finally defeated. The glorification of the saints at the second coming sees “death” being “swallowed up in victory.” It is here that “death” finally loses its “sting” and the “grave” loses its “victory.” Why? Because “the last enemy” is here eternally “destroyed.” There is no allowance for some supposed future millennium.

The deliverance of the righteous and the destruction of all rebellion

As Jesus comes and rescues ‘the just’ in the twinkling of an eye He also destroys ‘the unjust’. These passages distinctly describe the end. Those “in Adam all die.” The second coming is shown to be the termination of all rebellion. It is the time “when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." But equally, “in Christ shall all be made alive.” This is the time “when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father.” It is clear that everything is tied up at the end (“His coming”).

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.

The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish.

This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

After telling us that Christ’s coming sees the termination of the wicked and their evil operations, the writer tells us that Christ’s reign over His enemies must continue until this climactic point. Whilst “all power” is now assuredly given unto Christ “in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18) through His life, death and resurrection, and whilst through this victorious work “he hath put all things under his feet” in a sovereign manner, we have not yet seen the final subduing of wickedness.

God’s purpose is that the entire creation will be regenerated. That is, the whole universe will be freed from the curse of corruption and degeneration. In intent is to bring a whole new order when He returns that will be marked by righteousness and eternality. A new regenerated creation will welcome a freshly perfected redeemed people. We are therefore looking at universal regeneration.

You mean the heavenly Kingdom as that is where Christ takes the saints, those left behind are the wicked...

 

[WPM]

You mean the heavenly Kingdom as that is where Christ takes the saints, those left behind are the wicked...

He brings the heavenly kingdom with Him to earth.

 

[Timtofly]

Stop avoiding. Which is it? You change your beliefs every time we talk. It is impossible to pin you down.

You previously argued:

Stop avoiding what? Don't you know that Adam and Eve had incorruptible physical bodies? They had bodies directly given to them by God. Not from a womb. So God can create a new body and place a soul into that body at any time. Like when a redeemed soul leaves this dead flesh and enters Paradise.

What kind of body did they have if not incorruptible?

You give a description that fits Scripture, because those in the Day of the Lord will have the same incorruptible physical body Adam and Eve had before God took that physical body away and placed them in a corruptible body of death.

If you don't think death changes an incorruptible physical body into a corruptible physical body, how can you accept Paul going in the reverse direction from corruptible to incorruptible?

That is the regeneration. Matthew 13

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man."

Jesus can physically change a person on site. They don't have to fall over dead, and be brought back. They are changed from death to life on purpose.

For someone who embraces reformed amillennial thought, you don't understand the Second Coming at all. Jesus does not give the sheep and goats a choice. Jesus does not give the wheat and tares a choice. This judgment is not based on any decisions ever made in their life prior to the Second Coming, nor after. At the point of the Second Coming either they are elect or removed from election. Either Jesus redeems them on the spot, or they are cast into the LOF.


Jesus is not sitting there preaching a 25 minute sermon on how they treated people, as if they had done it to Him, and then offer an alter call to believe or not to believe.


If they had accepted the offer prior to the Second Coming, they would be up in Paradise at that point, not standing physically alive before a judgment throne.

There is no choice in being either wheat or tares. Jesus is changing the wheat, and the tares will be tossed into the LOF. Why do you think the angels are gathering people from all over the earth after the Second Coming? Not that the lost can decide what they can do, but to redeem some to live during the Day of the Lord, and to toss the majority into the LOF.

You think these people represent all humanity since Adam and Eve. That is not the case. You think 8 billion people disappear instantly. That is not the case. Nothing in Mathew 13 nor 25 indicate your climactic destruction scenario.

Revelation 19 and Armageddon is not the Second Coming. Angels don't pick up the dead bodies and redeem some, and then toss the rest into the LOF. There is only mention of physical death. They are the rest of the dead waiting for another thousand years until the final judgment. Besides, nothing is going to collect all 8 billion+ humans instantly at the Second Coming and place them at Armageddon just in time for a surprise Second Coming. Why do you think Revelation 19 reads that way?

All of humanity is gathered at Armageddon. But at that point only in the thousands, not even in the millions. Do you not understand this verse:

"That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

You imply that all 8 billion people are going to instantly all appear at Armageddon, so as to be surprised at the thief in the night moment of the Second Coming. Why?

Armageddon is a planned event as part of the 7 vials. The Second Coming is an unplanned event as part of the 7 Seals. Paul's point of the entire church being glorified is the 5th Seal, and the putting on of white robes in that meeting in the air. Then the church is told to wait until the sheep and wheat are gathered.

The church will wait until the Day of the Lord is over like the church has waited physically in Paradise since the thief entered Paradise, the day of the Cross. The church cones down in the New Jerusalem in the NHNE.

The people living on earth if they even leave earth, return on white horses after Satan's 42 months of AoD. Those are the camp of the saints. Horses and camps, who would have thought they went together? I guess they never needed tanks and airplanes after they were all burned up at the Second Coming, not even a thousand years later.

I still am not for sure why that the premil view is wrong about humans still living on the earth doing what humanity was supposed to do, per Genesis 1? That has not changed.

The point was that this time started in the first century. Obviously humans have still been humans filling the earth, either way.

It is not like the earth is supposed to be a totally blank flat piece of real-estate void of anything or detail for 1,000 years. It is certainly not a repeat of the last 6,000 years. That time was declared up, over, finished at the 7th Trumpet.

Since all the dead flesh is removed, incorruptible flesh will take death's place. Physical bodies that will never decay after maturity. There is still a maturity process. People won't just pop into existence at 30 years of age.

Your ban on procreation started at the Cross in Paradise. You claim the Day of the Lord started in the first century but fail to include life in heaven, not just your narrow minded view of life on earth. No one has been procreating in Paradise, but they have had Adam's original physical body without sin, death, and corruption. Paradise is who rises first and who Jesus brings with Him at the Second Coming, because the 5th Seal, is when all the redeemed put on those robes of white and become complete sons of God, soul, body, and spirit, not just a soul and a body.

Those on earth will just be soul and body, not glorified. Thus procreation will not be banned, as the purpose is to do what Adam and Eve failed to do, and that is fill and subdue the earth as Jesus reigns until all creation is brought under subjection.

Jesus is still the second Adam in that regard. Reigning over every nation on earth as King. The Messiah part was fulfilled in the first century. Do you claim the 7th Trumpet happened in the first century? Why not?

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

That is when Jesus starts the physical reign for the entire Day of the Lord. Not just 3 seconds and all is over.

 

[Timtofly]

Not so.
you would be Amill, and expect full and total restoration in the place Jesus has gone to prepare for us when he returns a second time to glorify us. You will behold that the almighty God will then tabernacle with the redeemed on a restored NHNE FOREVER AMEN.

The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day. Not waiting thousands of years for some amil to dictate when that physical body happens.

Once souls left Abraham's bosom and sheol, the grave, they entered Paradise physically just as physical as the tree of life and the temple of God they serve in day and night. No one enters nor tastes death post the Cross if they are redeemed with the second birth while alive on the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

It seems like: if you do not agree with him, you do not know God.

It is not about agreeing with me. That is Scripture, not human opinion. You seem to not understand God's Word. That is not my opinion. That is the words from your own posts.

 

[Timtofly]

He brings the heavenly kingdom with Him to earth.

In what scenario?

On horses or in a physical city that physically sits on the earth, like every other city.

Last I checked horses and cities were entirely different concepts.

 

[WPM]

The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day. Not waiting thousands of years for some amil to dictate when that physical body happens.

Once souls left Abraham's bosom and sheol, the grave, they entered Paradise physically just as physical as the tree of life and the temple of God they serve in day and night. No one enters nor tastes death post the Cross if they are redeemed with the second birth while alive on the earth.

You seem to make it up as you go. It is really hard to take your posts serious. How about at the giving Scripture to prove what do you claim instead of making it up as you go. Where in the Bible does it say that "The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day"?

What orthodox Premils hold what you teach?

 

[WPM]

It is not about agreeing with me. That is Scripture, not human opinion. You seem to not understand God's Word. That is not my opinion. That is the words from your own posts.

Why would anyone agree with you when you constantly twist Scripture to say the opposite to what it says and cannot support any of your farfetched claims? You cannot present hard Scripture to reinforces your speculations. You cannot quote Scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

You seem to make it up as you go. It is really hard to take your posts serious. How about at the giving Scripture to prove what do you claim instead of making it up as you go. Where in the Bible does it say that "The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day"?

What orthodox Premils holds what you teach?

Jesus declared that the thief would be in Paradise that day. You know the verses.

Paul said there is a physical body upon entering Paradise. You know the verses.

Jesus said no one would die nor taste death post the Cross. You know the verses.

The hour of physical resurrection started with Lazarus. You know the verses.

Quote all those verses and prove I am making stuff up. Otherwise this post is a false accusation that you claim I make it up as I go.

Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life. Prove I made that up.

 

[Timtofly]

Why would anyone agree with you when you constantly twist Scripture to say the opposite to what it says and cannot support any of your farfetched claims? You cannot present hard Scripture to reinforces your speculations. You cannot quote Scripture.

You cannot even point to a single fact of where I have done what you claim, about my posts.

 

[WPM]

Jesus declared that the thief would be in Paradise that day. You know the verses.

Paul said there is a physical body upon entering Paradise. You know the verses.

Jesus said no one would die nor taste death post the Cross. You know the verses.

The hour of physical resurrection started with Lazarus. You know the verses.

Quote all those verses and prove I am making stuff up. Otherwise this post is a false accusation that you claim I make it up as I go.

Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life. Prove I made that up.

Stop avoiding the obvious. You are ducking the issues. This is typical of your beliefs. Your claims are not supported by Scripture, that is why you refuse to quote the inspired text.

1. Where in the Bible does it say that "The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day"?
2. Where did Paul say "there is a physical body upon entering Paradise"?
3. Where in the Bible does it say that "The hour of physical resurrection started with Lazarus"?

You make it up as you go!!!

 

[WPM]

those who disobey God must die. That has always been true with God.

Those in the Millennium die because of disobedience to the law, not because they are in Adam's dead corruptible flesh as sinners.

If you lived a perfect sinless life and kept every law, you would still die and go to sheol. Based on the mere fact you are in the image of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

You previously said this.

They are not believers. They are not unbelievers. They do not need belief period. They have the iron rod rule of Christ. They have incorruptible bodies, that cannot ever die again spiritually nor physically.

Which is it? You change your beliefs every time we talk. It is impossible to pin you down.

Are you too proud to admit that you are confused with what you believe?

 

[jeffweeder]

The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day. Not waiting thousands of years for some amil to dictate when that physical body happens.

Once souls left Abraham's bosom and sheol, the grave, they entered Paradise physically just as physical as the tree of life and the temple of God they serve in day and night. No one enters nor tastes death post the Cross if they are redeemed with the second birth while alive on the earth.

See post 350.
I see you still refuse to quote the scriptures in answer to post 350. Saying we know the scriptures is not good enough. Please use the Lords own words as requested in post 354.

 

[jeffweeder]

Stop avoiding the obvious. You are ducking the issues. This is typical of your beliefs. Your claims are not supported by Scripture, that is why you refuse to quote the inspired text.

1. Where in the Bible does it say that "The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day"?
2. Where did Paul say "there is a physical body upon entering Paradise"?
3. Where in the Bible does it say that "The hour of physical resurrection started with Lazarus"?

You make it up as you go!!!

He certainly does.

What he doesnt seem to understand is Lazaras resurrection was not a resurrection to glory like Jesus Glorious bodily resurrection. Laz has to wait for this the LAST day, when Jesus comes a second time, as do all the dead in Christ. Thats the meaning of Jesus being the first resurrection as the redeemed await the great day of the redemption of the body.

Lk 21
27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”


Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

1. Ephesians 1:14
   who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemptionof those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
2. Ephesians 4:30
   And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[WPM]

He certainly does.

What he doesnt seem to understand is Lazaras resurrection was not a resurrection to glory like Jesus Glorious bodily resurrection. Laz has to wait for this the LAST day, when Jesus comes a second time, as do all the dead in Christ. Thats the meaning of Jesus being the first resurrection as the redeemed await the great day of the redemption of the body.

Lk 21
27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”


Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

1. Ephesians 1:14
   who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemptionof those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
2. Ephesians 4:30
   And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Exactly! Well put! I agree!

 

[WPM]

I have never denied that people born in the Day of the Lord can die.

Really? You previously said this.

They are not believers. They are not unbelievers. They do not need belief period. They have the iron rod rule of Christ. They have incorruptible bodies, that cannot ever die again spiritually nor physically.

Which is it? You change your beliefs every time we talk.

Your silence is deafening!

 

[Timtofly]

Stop avoiding the obvious. You are ducking the issues. This is typical of your beliefs. Your claims are not supported by Scripture, that is why you refuse to quote the inspired text.

1. Where in the Bible does it say that "The thief on the cross with Christ expected a physical body that day"?
2. Where did Paul say "there is a physical body upon entering Paradise"?
3. Where in the Bible does it say that "The hour of physical resurrection started with Lazarus"?

You make it up as you go!!!

Do you expect to have a physical body, when you enter the kingdom? Luke 23:42.

"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."

Do you not interpret this question as pertaining to the resurrection and declaration of a physical kingdom?

What was the answer:

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Did Jesus enter the kingdom at His resurrection, and given all authority as King?

Jesus never said, "OK, see you in a couple of thousand years", did He? What did the thief expect that day? What he asked?

Paul tells you that is exactly what you know in 2 Corinthians 5:1.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

The hour was coming per John 5. Was Lazarus physically resurrected, or did Jesus explain to them, that Lazarus was no longer in Abraham's bosom, but his soul was now in heaven? What is a resurrection if not to Paradise? Lazarus had to wait about a week or two, and then ascended with the rest of those who left their graves when Jesus said, "It is finished".

No one with the first resurrection is allowed to just hang out on earth, waiting for the Second Coming. Those alive at the Second Coming are not going to hang out on earth either. They will receive a first resurrection body at that point.

I don’t make up stuff like you do about recap and other human opinions.