Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[Brakelite]

After my acceptance of Sabbath keeping as a legitimate Christian practice over 25 years ago, and appreciating and accepting certain other doctrines that I had come to believe in which were accepted within the Adventist church, it still took me 5 years before I was willing to actually join the church because of what I perceived at that time as 'faults' and 'errors'. And I could use those very same excuses today to leave the church and become one of the great herd that gathers outside the door and criticises the church for its faults as if the great herd itself is now perfect and exempt. But I became an Adventist and committed myself to the church not because it was a perfect church, but because what they taught reflected biblical truth, and what they practiced in the community echoed the ministry of the NT church to bring the gospel, practical healing, and education to the masses, which to my mind was the most practical reproduction of the apostolic church to the needs , the pressures, the cultural dynamics and current worldview of this so unique present age. That it is growing faster than any Protestant denomination tells me that while they can certainly do better, they are doing most things right, and there are a great many people beginning to realise the same as me.

As today's Christian Church generally is becoming more and more involved with politics and thinking righteousness by politics is more spiritually tenable than righteousness by faith, scores of especially younger folk are leaving churches in droves, while others are attracted to "Christian" rock and roll concerts in the sanctuary and a new theology that only presents half the gospel. If for any reason anyone here can relate to this, then know that there is an alternative.

 

[amigo de christo]

Let me tell you a little almost secret... In fact, not really a secret at all as Adventists have known this for 180 odd years, and have been more than happy to tell others all about it, the problem is that among those 'others' are some who have no real interest in the truth, and rely on superficial understanding of the actual issue, and thus condemn the belief from a position of ignorance. There is an inherent danger in that. You may discover that upon further investigation, one has been, in his ignorance, opposing God.
While you may think you know all about something, you really don't. Adventists have not been pretending that there is a biblical explanation for the Great Disappointment. They haven't been covering up a lie. Nor have they been teaching that same so called lie for 180 years. And the church itself, hasn't grown to 25 million adherents globally in the basis of a lie. Do you really believe we are all that stupid? Do you really believe we would join one of the most unpopular denominations on the planet, if there was anything dodgy about the one event and resulting line of biblical doctrines the church was founded on? And being the foundational teaching of Adventism, the 'investigative judgement', there are numerous studies, books, video presentations, seminars, articles, journals, freely and readily available from both our pioneer authors as well as modern theologians explaining step by step the biblical truths that belong to that teaching. They are not defending a lie, or a falsehood, or a fallacy, or a deception. People are welcome to follow the steps taken that affirm the teaching. Sadly, there are some who refuse. Then they go online and pretend they have all the answers and call the teaching a lie.
Truth. 1844 is not a wrong date. It is a biblically established bona fide prophetic date that can be confirmed with a little study and effort and faith.
But I get it. You are afraid to go just a little bit deeper just in case you find what you don't want to find. Won't that be awkward? To discover that Adventists have been teaching the truth all along? What a humbling experience that would be. Did you know the Pharisees knew all along who Jesus was? But pride and a desire to retain their status demanded they deny the obvious? What was the result of that? The world rejected Noah. A prophet for the world at that time. The church rejected John the Baptist. Neither Noah nor John had scriptures attributed to them, yet they had powerful messages for the people of their time announcing the impending arrival of events that changed the world forever. Jesus said the spirit of Elijah would once again be heard through His servants before the second coming. I guess the world is rejecting that also.

You would be amazed at just how many people can join that which is false . i mean muslims, buddism , atheism
and so on and so forth . And believel me its not popular to be a jihad . but look at how many do that .
I wouldnt concern myself with numbers and how can so many be wrong . Many are my friend
and now nigh the end a delusion to gather them as one has appeared .
That delusion will take all into its web . the false religoins and even many within christendom itself .
Yet most have no idea its occuring at all .
Rather they hear the cry to unify , to set aside differences , to find common ground , to break down walls of division
to heal the wound , and all under the guise its LOVE LOVE LOVE and its of GOD .
You see that has been what i am watching take hold on the many now .
And yet most cannot see it for what it is or to whom AS ONE it does lead them .
And yes brakelite , even many adventists are already heading under it , as well as many within every denomination .
Yet folks had rather aruge bout meats drinks and days . REALLY .
Something wicked under pretense that it is love and of GOD has entered into a convenant
with all the tribes and all religoins of the earth . and boy do it know how to allure and to decieve .
it wont come in full force at the beginning . always it plants here a little and there a little its love doctrine
as it teaches them to not be so concerened over doctrine and that rather , IT SAYETH just focus on doing good
focus on lovey do , focus on unity . Its highly clever brakelite . VERY CLEVER and VERY SUBTILE is its father
the dragon . My advice is and has been we better get in that bible FOR OURSELVES
and watch out and stop being so darn trusting in them leaders and their doctrines .
Folks need to start over in the bible for themselves . the dark one has come to unify as one the peoples of earth
and it does so with a false love brakelite . And as i said above , its love wont come in accepting sins and other paths
AT FIRST , it only hints and says JUDGE NOT , JUDGE NOT , let all be , let all be , just hug and love them to GOD .
BUT THIS LEAVENS THE HECK OUT OF THE CHURCHES that wont correct . And they do fall victim to its lie .

 

[BarneyFife]

You would be amazed at just how many people can join that which is false .

This is just another indicator of how very little you actually know about Adventism, Amigo.

Why would Adventists "be amazed at how many people can join that which is false?"

I've told you countless times that you didn't invent the cause of anti-ecumenism. Many of us were preaching it long before you. And that would be just a petty piece of one-upsmanship were it not for the fact that it's basically all you've got.

Adventists have had baked into their evangelistic campaigns, for nearly two centuries now, the following verse:

Revelation 18:4 KJV — And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Along with this verse we give examples of how ecumenism is developing, has developed, and is growing.

And even we know that the mere knowledge of this doesn't make any one of us immune to the deception of unity at any cost and that very many who sit in the pews alongside us will ultimately be taken in by it.

But this is only a small (albeit very important) part of our message and we've got things to do and can't afford to ride one hobby horse. We can't afford not to be multitaskers. People are perishing from all sorts of deceptions—not just your cherished favorite.

It seems to be a comfort zone for you. And if that's what you need to get by, fine, but why do you have to ignorantly holler "Investigative Judgment" and "Believe not Ellie" to break up the boredom of throwing the organized-ministry-and-mission baby out with the "RELIGOINS" bath water?

So, since you refuse to research the not-so-hard questions, I'll just ask you straight out:

With regard to the Investigative Judgment, what's so heretical about King Jesus electing to block out a period of time before His Second Coming to sit down and go over the books with those angels, etc., who haven't fallen, to reassure them that He's made the right decisions about who is safe to save, and therefore be in their presence, and who isn't?

Prophecy is often couched in terms that makes it virtually invisible to the casual reader.

Ellen G. White did not originate this teaching, Amigo, and I can prove that with more hard, historical evidence than you can find to disprove it. I can assure of that much.

The LORD allowed The Great Disappointment and the discovery of this teaching and others to occur as a warning that folks don't have much time left to make up their minds for or against His salvation and government.

You can war against that if you want to and keep on trumpeting "Investigative Judgment, Ellie, Ellie, Ellie," and " meats, drinks, days" all you like but, as you have been so apt to give advice to folks, I strongly advise against it and, eventually, you're going to come face to face with the BIBLE FACT that we are to live by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and not just a few favorite ones.

We've all been guilty of it—its no particular shame—but ignorance is not authority, Amigo.

What you and others DON'T know about Adventism is quite enough to disqualify you as as authoritative judges of it.

Here, perhaps, but not at the Bar of God.

.

 

[amigo de christo]

This is just another indicator of how very little you actually know about Adventism, Amigo.

Why would Adventists "be amazed at how many people can join that which is false?"

I've told you countless times that you didn't invent the cause of anti-ecumenism. Many of us were preaching it long before you. And that would be just a petty piece of one-upsmanship were it not for the fact that it's basically all you've got.

Adventists have had baked into their evangelistic campaigns, for nearly two centuries now, the following verse:

Revelation 18:4 KJV — And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Along with this verse we give examples of how ecumenism is developing, has developed, and is growing.

And even we know that the mere knowledge of this doesn't make any one of us immune to the deception of unity at any cost and that very many who sit in the pews alongside us will ultimately be taken in by it.

But this is only a small (albeit very important) part of our message but we've got things to do and can't afford to ride one hobby horse. We can't afford not to be multitaskers. People are perishing from all sorts of deceptions—not just your cherished favorite.

It seems to be a comfort zone for you. And if that's what you need to get by, fine, but why do you have to ignorantly holler "Investigative Judgment" and "Believe not Ellie" to break up the boredom of throwing the organized-ministry-and-mission baby out with the "RELIGOINS" bath water?

So, since you refuse to research the not-so-hard questions, I'll just ask you straight out:

With regard to the Investigative Judgment, what's so heretical about King Jesus electing to block out a period of time before His Second Coming to sit down and go over the books with those angels, etc., who haven't fallen, to reassure them that He's made the right decisions about who is safe to save, and therefore be in their presence, and who isn't?

Prophecy is often couched in terms that makes it virtually invisible to the casual reader.

Ellen G. White did not originate this teaching, Amigo, and I can prove that with more hard, historical evidence than you can find to disprove it. I can assure of that much.

The LORD allowed The Great Disappointment and the discovery of this teaching and others to occur as a warning that folks don't have much time left to make up their minds for or against His salvation and government.

You can war against that if you want to and keep on trumpeting "Investigative Judgment, Ellie, Ellie, Ellie," and " meats, drinks, days" all you like but, as you have been so apt to give advice to folks, I strongly advise against it and, eventually, you're going to come face to face with the BIBLE FACT that we are to live by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and not just a few favorite ones.

We've all been guilty of it—its no particular shame—but ignorance is not authority, Amigo.

What you and others DON'T know about Adventism is quite enough to disqualify you as as authoritative judges of it.

Here, perhaps, but not at the Bar of God.

.

I had sooner pull down my britches and drag my rear across a mile of broken glass
than to heed ellen white . SO now you , you my friend have to make up your mind .
Does that make me an anti christ , a devil . either way i aint gonna follow that lady
or the RCC or the protestant realm either . TOO many have SOLD out .
its time we bible up for ourselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

and if i have to hear another word about how the mormons serve the same CHRIST we do
i think i will just pass out . THERE IS SUCH A THING as another jesus
and the muslims DONT KNOW JESUS CHRIST either . IF i have to hear another word
about how we and them serve the same GOD , i think i will just pass out . THIS LOVEY DO crap has got to go
and its about time we preached the actual love OF GOD , OF THE TRUTH . yeah TRUTH for a change .

 

[amigo de christo]

This is just another indicator of how very little you actually know about Adventism, Amigo.

Why would Adventists "be amazed at how many people can join that which is false?"

I've told you countless times that you didn't invent the cause of anti-ecumenism. Many of us were preaching it long before you. And that would be just a petty piece of one-upsmanship were it not for the fact that it's basically all you've got.

Adventists have had baked into their evangelistic campaigns, for nearly two centuries now, the following verse:

Revelation 18:4 KJV — And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Along with this verse we give examples of how ecumenism is developing, has developed, and is growing.

And even we know that the mere knowledge of this doesn't make any one of us immune to the deception of unity at any cost and that very many who sit in the pews alongside us will ultimately be taken in by it.

But this is only a small (albeit very important) part of our message but we've got things to do and can't afford to ride one hobby horse. We can't afford not to be multitaskers. People are perishing from all sorts of deceptions—not just your cherished favorite.

It seems to be a comfort zone for you. And if that's what you need to get by, fine, but why do you have to ignorantly holler "Investigative Judgment" and "Believe not Ellie" to break up the boredom of throwing the organized-ministry-and-mission baby out with the "RELIGOINS" bath water?

So, since you refuse to research the not-so-hard questions, I'll just ask you straight out:

With regard to the Investigative Judgment, what's so heretical about King Jesus electing to block out a period of time before His Second Coming to sit down and go over the books with those angels, etc., who haven't fallen, to reassure them that He's made the right decisions about who is safe to save, and therefore be in their presence, and who isn't?

Prophecy is often couched in terms that makes it virtually invisible to the casual reader.

Ellen G. White did not originate this teaching, Amigo, and I can prove that with more hard, historical evidence than you can find to disprove it. I can assure of that much.

The LORD allowed The Great Disappointment and the discovery of this teaching and others to occur as a warning that folks don't have much time left to make up their minds for or against His salvation and government.

You can war against that if you want to and keep on trumpeting "Investigative Judgment, Ellie, Ellie, Ellie," and " meats, drinks, days" all you like but, as you have been so apt to give advice to folks, I strongly advise against it and, eventually, you're going to come face to face with the BIBLE FACT that we are to live by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and not just a few favorite ones.

We've all been guilty of it—its no particular shame—but ignorance is not authority, Amigo.

What you and others DON'T know about Adventism is quite enough to disqualify you as as authoritative judges of it.

Here, perhaps, but not at the Bar of God.

.

whether or not you are already under the influence of what i say next , just know it was out of love for all i said it .
THE NEXT TIME anyone tries to say that unbelieving jews are okay
and that muslims worship the same GOD we do
and that to judge not cause there are good people in all religoins , even athiest
LET ME REMIND US OF SOMETHING .
The next time one says YE dont know their heart dont judge .
LET ME REMIND us all of something .
NUMBER ONE . THERE AINT NO ONE GOOD BUT GOD
number two mans heart is evil from his youth up . SO , OOOPS , YEAH ITS ABOUT HIGH TIME
we stop buying into this other love crap which tries so very hard to make other religoins seem okay
as long as they lovey dooed one another . cause barney , ITS A LIE FROM THE DEVIL .
IN fact if they believe not the testimony GOD gave of HIS SON . NOT ONLY DO THEY NOT LOVE GOD
they call GOD A LIAR . a LIAR barney . so much for the idea that other religoins are of GOD
or that if they just did some good they must have known GOD . HECK NO . that lie will not stand on my watch .
NOR will a money loving or rainbow holding version of jesus get allowed on my watch .
ITS TIME TO LOVE DOCTRINE AGAIN , BIBLCAL DOCTRINE and learn that for ourselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

If a man hates the words o GOD then i tell us all HE hates GOD WHO INSPIRED THEM WORDS .
OOPS .
IF a man accepts not the testimony of GOD that HE GAVE OF JESUS CHRIST
HE LOVES NOT GOD but calleth GOD a liar . HE denies JESUS is THE CHRIST and is an anti christ .
IF a man or any claims to love GOD but loveth not CHRIST , guess who HE or she DONT LOVE , GOD .
IF a man loveth me HE WOULD KEEP MY SAYINGS .
IF a man loveth me not HE DOES NOT KEEP my sayings . THERE ARE MANY WHO claim to love GOD
and even many who claim to LOVE JESUS . YET LOVE NEITHER . they love the image of another god
that has been sold unto them that embraces their sin . and that is a fact too . OL aimgo keeps it real and i do so for a reason

 

[BarneyFife]

What is more sad is that not only is that carnal mind at enmity with God and cannot obey the laws of God, but modern Christians, unlike those of years not so distant past, don't want to obey and search diligently for reasons why they shouldn't have to!!!

I'm afraid it's all true. The attitude of most folks seems to be that as long as I have my salvation in the bag, all I need concern myself with is saying and doing as I very well please, and anyone who doesn't like it is just proving they're deceived and/or lost.

Sadly, we Adventists venture too close to this path far too often.

I've been guilty.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

whether or not you are already under the influence of what i say next , just know it was out of love for all i said it .

Baloney—you're just soft-pedaling your doubling down on your schtick about all religions and/or denominations being evil and thoroughly corrupted by the "all-inclusive love" with which you are completely obsessed.

I get it. It's safe to stand by and say "They're all crazy, and I tried to tell 'em so don't blame me, LORD!" It's all the rage. And if you have a flavor, all the better. It makes you interesting.

But don't join a group with a label that points out sin, because then they'll see you coming and they'll know where the bodies are buried or, at least, where they can Google up some ammunition to put you on the run.

So you love me; I love you, too, Amigo.

And talk is cheap.

"Whether or not"—pretty flimsy cover for being afraid to give the benefit of the doubt to someone you know doesn't give any quarter to sin—pathetic, actually (and every time I've provided evidence for this, you've bolted like a rabbit).

But, again, I get it. That kind of concession wouldn't buoy up the anti-ecumenism doomsday device very much. It takes careful planning to put a one-trick pony show over.

So what's really so heretical about a doctrine like the Investigative Judgment, Amigo?

I dare you to give me a direct answer—not one that involves "date-setting," old dead men and women, or "entering" anything, but one that simply addresses the actual event that is, even now, taking place.

Tell me how evil it is for Jesus to open the books and offer to show interested angels why Tom is saved and Mary is lost, before He finally wraps up this mess we're in for good (that way it'll only take Him a thousand years to do similar business with us).

And put on a happy face, Amigo. If I didn't love you so much I wouldn't bother to heap all this abuse on you.

.

 

[Cassandra]

Ill take it even further. I'd bet dollars to donuts that amigo didn't know about the parts of the sanctuary in Rev 1, 5, 8.

Hey Amigo,

date setters have come and gone . NEVER HEED ANYONE who tries to make an excuse for it either .
HEED NOT ELLIE , HEED NOT THE JW camp either .

What does 2300 days mean, and why was it told to Daniel? Since 2 Tim 3:16 says 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness::

So it is in there for a reason. God wasn't goofing around when He asked Moses to build a sanctuary. He also wasn't kidding when He had 2300 put into the Bible,Mr(s) Bible Up. So if you can say its all hooey, you tell us what it means. All Scripture is profitable for doctrine. It all you do is negate things without a reasonable answer, esp from the bible, maybe you should "Bible up"

 

[BarneyFife]

Ill take it even further. I'd bet dollars to donuts that amigo didn't know about the parts of the sanctuary in Rev 1, 5, 8.

Sorry, Sis, I just have to snicker at how our ages are showing here (not yours, of course).

Sometimes I grab my wife a donut and a decaf at Dunkin and they knock half (or something like that) off of the $1.50 for the donut because of the 50¢ worth of coffee they're charging me $3.50 for (I understand overhead, etc.).

My kids' nickname for me is "Fossil." It appears to be a term of quite some endearment, to them, at least. I've had it used on me online a lot under slightly different circumstances, along with "boomer," etc.

Good times!

.

 

[BarneyFife]

I had sooner pull down my britches and drag my rear across a mile of broken glass
than to heed ellen white .

Big talk.

Staw man? Must we? Who asked you to follow anyone but Jesus Christ? Put up or shut up time, Amigo.

SO now you , you my friend have to make up your mind

About what? Whether I'm going to trade my pounds for an ounce?

You ride your "all-inclusive love" hobby horse for all it's worth, my friend. Some of us have that AND other things to do.

Does that make me an anti christ , a devil . either way i aint gonna follow that lady
or the RCC or the protestant realm either .

No, it makes you a sufferer of a martyr complex, and it got really old a long time ago. Cry "persecution" at someone else. I'm not interested.

and if i have to hear another word about how the mormons serve the same CHRIST we do
i think i will just pass out . THERE IS SUCH A THING as another jesus
and the muslims DONT KNOW JESUS CHRIST either . IF i have to hear another word
about how we and them serve the same GOD , i think i will just pass out . THIS LOVEY DO crap has got to go
and its about time we preached the actual love OF GOD , OF THE TRUTH . yeah TRUTH for a change .

What does any of this nonsense have to do with the topic of the thread?

Oops—I forgot—you don't give a spoonful of beans for such rules. You say what you want when and where you want—even in the prayer threads.

If a man hates the words o GOD then i tell us all HE hates GOD WHO INSPIRED THEM WORDS .
OOPS .
IF a man accepts not the testimony of GOD that HE GAVE OF JESUS CHRIST
HE LOVES NOT GOD but calleth GOD a liar . HE denies JESUS is THE CHRIST and is an anti christ .
IF a man or any claims to love GOD but loveth not CHRIST , guess who HE or she DONT LOVE , GOD .
IF a man loveth me HE WOULD KEEP MY SAYINGS .
IF a man loveth me not HE DOES NOT KEEP my sayings . THERE ARE MANY WHO claim to love GOD
and even many who claim to LOVE JESUS . YET LOVE NEITHER . they love the image of another god
that has been sold unto them that embraces their sin . and that is a fact too . OL aimgo keeps it real and i do so for a reason

Why don't you go play this tune where someone needs to hear it?

Better idea...

While you're raiding us:

Tell us how much you love Jesus, Amigo. Come on, testify. I think that'd be great to see. No kidding.

I'll tell you how much I love Him.He helps me every day to see Him more clearly. I was feeling kinda down for the last week or so but the last few days my morning prayer times have been really special and He's shown me physical and spiritual things that make the amount of private suffering I'm going through right now seem like nothing at all, so I'm still able to share and witness to my family and friends. He's always helped me like this and I've seen him work miracles in the lives of my dearest ones.

Why, just yesterday He showed me, once again (He's so patient), that He never turns away one who sincerely needs His help, no matter how much they've taken for granted His blessings.

We only turn Him away.

Jesus is all the world to me:
My life, my joy, my all.
He is my strength from day to day;
Without Him I would fall.
When I am sad, to Him I go;
No other one can cheer me so.
When I am sad, He makes me glad;
He’s my Friend.

Jesus is all the world to me,
My Friend in trials sore.
I go to Him for blessings, and
He gives them o’er and o’er.
He sends the sunshine and the rain;
He sends the harvest’s golden grain:
Sunshine and rain, harvest of grain—
He’s my Friend.

Jesus is all the world to me,
And true to Him I’ll be.
Oh, how could I this Friend deny
When He’s so true to me?
Following Him I know I’m right;
He watches o’er me day and night.
Following Him by day and night,
He’s my Friend.

Jesus is all the world to me,
I want no better friend.
I trust Him now; I’ll trust Him when
Life’s fleeting days shall end.
Beautiful life with such a Friend;
Beautiful life that has no end!
Eternal life, eternal joy,
He’s my Friend.

.

 

[Brakelite]

Mmmm. Nothing so far from posters in this conversation has convinced me that America isn't in trouble. However, I could add a few more reasons I think.

 

[Wrangler]

actually join the church because of what I perceived at that time as 'faults' and 'errors'.
...
as if the great herd itself is now perfect and exempt.

Very insightful - and applies to all churches, not just the SDA of which you speak.

I've come to the conclusion that no human institution can be perfect because people are not perfect. The sex scandals in the church undermine the marketing and good works of multitudes. IMO, one of the greatest business books ever written is Good to Great. One of the principles talks about the enemy of great. Both good and perfect are the enemy of great. Good leaves people complacent. Perfect prevents people from taking incremental steps to improve. Both are rationalizations to not do better.

We all ought to aspire to noble ideals - even if we do not always live up to them.

 

[Wrangler]

It seems to be a comfort zone for you. And if that's what you need to get by, fine, but why do you have to ignorantly holler "Investigative Judgment" and "Believe not Ellie" to break up the boredom of throwing the organized-ministry-and-mission baby out with the "RELIGOINS" bath water?

I cannot understand the devotion our brothers on this site have to tearing down denominations that are almost as corrupt as the one they belong to.

What you and others DON'T know about Adventism is quite enough to disqualify you as as authoritative judges of it.

This denominational judgment is so anti-Biblical. Paul said he was the worst of sinners, not better than anyone else.

As for me, I'm content to stay in my lane. God has called me to certain work and if it be different from what SDA's are called to do, so be it. Bless you and your work and calling. Amen and Amen.

 

[Wrangler]

Tell me how evil it is for Jesus to open the books and offer to show interested angels why Tom is saved and Mary is lost, before He finally wraps up this mess we're in for good (that way it'll only take Him a thousand years to do similar business with us).

Wow! I have not followed this whole exchange but my word. This is what's got @amigo de christo britches in a knot?

In recent years, I've become more concerned with the WHAT rather than HOW or WHY. I'm fond of saying the HOW or WHY don't matter. Here is @amigo de christo practically making them a salvation issue! This the love by which the whole world will know we are disciples of Jesus? Yikes! How petty in the extreme.

 

[Wrangler]

I had sooner pull down my britches and drag my rear across a mile of broken glass
than to heed ellen white .

Self-righteous are you. The sin of pride that is. Not the Spirit of God.

Sad that I only heard of Ellen White on this forum in the context of such petulant criticism. I bet she's done more to advance the Kingdom of God than her critics.

 

[Wrangler]

What does any of this nonsense have to do with the topic of the thread?

Oops—I forgot—you don't give a spoonful of beans for such rules. You say what you want when and where you want—even in the prayer threads.

I've noted that too. He states truisms in most threads that have nothing to do with the OP.

War is bad.

 

[Wrangler]

Mmmm. Nothing so far from posters in this conversation has convinced me that America isn't in trouble. However, I could add a few more reasons I think.

I have a theory; America has already collapsed. It's only due to inertia that the full effects have yet to be observed.

Imagine a 500,000 ton ship going 20 knots suddenly loses its engines. It'll go a ways before coming to a complete and total stop. The people of this republic no longer reflect the Spirit of the Constitution, of those Founding Father's.

John Adams said the Constitution was made for a moral people and is wholly inadequate for any other kind.

When I read Jefferson Davis masterpiece The Rise And Fall of the Confederate Government, he asserted that the form of the USA has not changed but its substance has. Therefore, I tie the collapse of America with the War of Northern Aggression. Our financial debt is a proxy for our moral decadence.

How in the timeline of Revelation 6, with the second seal of war broken, the collapse of the worldwide economic system is expected by years end. Rather than prepare ourselves to do what we must as the Titanic sinks, let us squabble over the arrangement of chairs on the deck ...

 

[Brakelite]

Very insightful - and applies to all churches, not just the SDA of which you speak.

I've come to the conclusion that no human institution can be perfect because people are not perfect. The sex scandals in the church undermine the marketing and good works of multitudes. IMO, one of the greatest business books ever written is Good to Great. One of the principles talks about the enemy of great. Both good and perfect are the enemy of great. Good leaves people complacent. Perfect prevents people from taking incremental steps to improve. Both are rationalizations to not do better.

We all ought to aspire to noble ideals - even if we do not always live up to them.

Perfection is attainable, but it doesn't mean what most think. A rose bud, although immature and only a third of its way into a short life, can be perfect in its own sphere. Just as it's opening to half a bloom, and full bloom a few days later.

Something to seriously consider.
KJV Ephesians 5:25-27, 32
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Without blemish. Sounds like perfect to me. Paul is speaking here of the end time church immediately before Christ's coming. Certainly I couldn't say that any church is ready for that yet. But I say yet. If Jesus is returning soon as so many correctly believe, then we must believe also that God is working overtime to prepare a people for translation. And if Amigo understood more about the investigative judgement, and the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, being a type for God's people as well as the temple in heaven, then he would better appreciate the sanctification process in preparing the church for holiness and the company of angels and the Father.
KJV 1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?