BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
By the way, which Adventists here are quoting Mrs. White rather than Scripture to support their beliefs?
NONE—that's which ones.
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Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.
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By the way, which Adventists here are quoting Mrs. White rather than Scripture to support their beliefs?
NONE—that's which ones.
.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
About which you know absolutely nothing and, therefore, have no basis for criticism. All you know is that we claim something happened in 1844, but you have no idea what that thing is. You just drop the term "Investigative Judgment" and bolt.
Hang around and tell us all about it, Amigo.
I've been waiting for over a year now for a proper "CORRECTION," as you call it.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
You're absolutely right. The Bible doesn't say anything about Jesus NOT moving from the holy place to the most holy place in 1844.
You can quit pretending you know what you're talking about anytime now.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Drafted up a day or so ago:
You admonish?
Because resting and worshipping on God's benevolent, scientifically-observed, circaseptan biorhythmic schedule is such bitter bondage?
Along with abstaining from other things that are so liberating like murder, adultery, larceny, idolatry, parental dishonor, etc.?
The Sabbath isn't Pharisaical.
If it were, Christ wouldn't have spent so much time trying to teach them how to do it right.
He didn't have much to say about circumcision. That nonsense only came up when Jews were 'converting' to Christianity in droves after His death with the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.
So, since sexual impurity and idolatry were the only things addressed related to the Ten Commandments at the Jerusalem Council, are we to believe that the other 8 are okay to disregard and that God will just somehow do some spiritual hocus-pocus on us to make them obsolete?
What was it that Paul said about Jews and Gentiles, per Galatians 3?
Galatians 3:28 — There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11 — Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
And, concerning the law:
...
Psalms 1
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
...
Doesn't sound very burdensome or binding to me. Nothing about circumcision, either. Must not have anything to do with what Paul and Peter agreed to in Acts 15.
And no wonder the New Testament calls sin "lawlessness." The psalmist seemed to know that, too. Too bad the Psalms are obsolete since they're from the Old Covenant.
The unavoidable logic that is so persistent along these lines of reasoning is truly bewildering. The hate for the idea of resting and worshipping on a regular basis is so inexplicably great today that folks will attach any kind of nonsensical baggage to the direct argument that is so obviously flimsy.
If folks showed up at nearly any church pre-Internet and started preaching this stuff, they'd have been shown the door.
It's tragic that folks don't see this as a natural outgrowth of the extraordinary toying with the world in which Christianity indulged in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. All the clamoring for rights and liberty was, for most—who are even statistically verified as unconverted—just so much posturing for license to be selfish.
Postmodernism is now fully mingled with the church in a way that, if the veil were lifted, would truly startle those who claim to oppose it.
Luke 19:14 — But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
"This man" is Jesus, folks, and He was clear about the way our rebellious hearts work, so we've shifted to accentuating the Spirit (falsely so) as the authority over The Word made flesh, while ignoring Christ's instruction that the Spirit would testify of Him (John 15:26), bring all things He has said to our remembrance (John 14:26), speak not of His own authority but only what He has heard (John 16:13).
And what He, the Holy Ghost, heard was:
"If you love Me, keep my commandments."
Christ said plainly to the rich young ruler that if he wished to have eternal life, he must keep THE commandments. Are we to believe that "the law of Christ," as we are told is the New Covenant authority, is different from "THE commandments?" Into what kind of flim-flam, bait-and-switch do we think Christ is entering here?
Even if one believes that it was the Father, and not Christ, who gave the commandments at Sinai, did not Christ Himself say that He and His Father are One (John 10:30)?
.
You admonish?
Because resting and worshipping on God's benevolent, scientifically-observed, circaseptan biorhythmic schedule is such bitter bondage?
Along with abstaining from other things that are so liberating like murder, adultery, larceny, idolatry, parental dishonor, etc.?
The Sabbath isn't Pharisaical.
If it were, Christ wouldn't have spent so much time trying to teach them how to do it right.
He didn't have much to say about circumcision. That nonsense only came up when Jews were 'converting' to Christianity in droves after His death with the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.
So, since sexual impurity and idolatry were the only things addressed related to the Ten Commandments at the Jerusalem Council, are we to believe that the other 8 are okay to disregard and that God will just somehow do some spiritual hocus-pocus on us to make them obsolete?
What was it that Paul said about Jews and Gentiles, per Galatians 3?
Galatians 3:28 — There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11 — Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
And, concerning the law:
...
Psalms 1
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
...
Doesn't sound very burdensome or binding to me. Nothing about circumcision, either. Must not have anything to do with what Paul and Peter agreed to in Acts 15.
And no wonder the New Testament calls sin "lawlessness." The psalmist seemed to know that, too. Too bad the Psalms are obsolete since they're from the Old Covenant.
The unavoidable logic that is so persistent along these lines of reasoning is truly bewildering. The hate for the idea of resting and worshipping on a regular basis is so inexplicably great today that folks will attach any kind of nonsensical baggage to the direct argument that is so obviously flimsy.
If folks showed up at nearly any church pre-Internet and started preaching this stuff, they'd have been shown the door.
It's tragic that folks don't see this as a natural outgrowth of the extraordinary toying with the world in which Christianity indulged in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. All the clamoring for rights and liberty was, for most—who are even statistically verified as unconverted—just so much posturing for license to be selfish.
Postmodernism is now fully mingled with the church in a way that, if the veil were lifted, would truly startle those who claim to oppose it.
Luke 19:14 — But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
"This man" is Jesus, folks, and He was clear about the way our rebellious hearts work, so we've shifted to accentuating the Spirit (falsely so) as the authority over The Word made flesh, while ignoring Christ's instruction that the Spirit would testify of Him (John 15:26), bring all things He has said to our remembrance (John 14:26), speak not of His own authority but only what He has heard (John 16:13).
And what He, the Holy Ghost, heard was:
"If you love Me, keep my commandments."
Christ said plainly to the rich young ruler that if he wished to have eternal life, he must keep THE commandments. Are we to believe that "the law of Christ," as we are told is the New Covenant authority, is different from "THE commandments?" Into what kind of flim-flam, bait-and-switch do we think Christ is entering here?
Even if one believes that it was the Father, and not Christ, who gave the commandments at Sinai, did not Christ Himself say that He and His Father are One (John 10:30)?
.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
HE entered in upon ascending to heaven . NOT in EIGHTEEN FORTY FOUR .
the fact is ol miller was a date setter
and ol ellie thought she could patch it up to make it simply seem as though the had the location wrong .
Anyone with eyes to see can SEE that .
same line the JWS try and use on others too . date setters . but always trying to patch it up
when they GOT IT WRONG . this is nothing new under the sun . ITS only sad that anyone who professes to KNOW
CHRIST would buy it .
You haven't studied it, have you? do you ascribe to any prophecies? what does sanctuary be cleansed mean?
Wrong again, kitty!
She didn't patch anything up. It wasn't the location--it was the time.
Do you know the purpose of the earthly sanctuary? Do you know that Christ is our High Priest?
Heb 9:24 " For Christ (the Messiah) has not entered into a sanctuary made with [human] hands, only a copy and pattern and type of the true one, but [He has entered] into heaven itself, now to appear in the [very] presence of God on our behalf."
Oh golly, there must be a true sanctuary, not the earthly one (made of human hands) What does that mean? Why is there a sanctuary in Heaven?
And ol amigo reads but doesn't even wonder about it.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Again, not a word about what Christ is doing in the most holy place because you don't know and you don't care, because if you did, you might have to change your broken-record tune.
.
Dear brethren in Christ...(to take Davy's example)...who wrote the following? Is it scriptural?
It is impossible for us, of ourselves, to escape from the pit of sin in which we are sunken. Our hearts are evil, and we cannot change them. "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." "The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Job 14:4; Romans 8:7. Education, culture, the exercise of the will, human effort, all have their proper sphere, but here they are powerless. They may produce an outward correctness of behavior, but they cannot change the heart; they cannot purify the springs of life. There must be a power working from within, a new life from above, before men can be changed from sin to holiness. That power is Christ. His grace alone can quicken the lifeless faculties of the soul, and attract it to God, to holiness.
The Saviour said, "Except a man be born from above," unless he shall receive a new heart, new desires, purposes, and motives, leading to a new life, "he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3, margin. The idea that it is necessary only to develop the good that exists in man by nature, is a fatal deception. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." 1 Corinthians 2:14; John 3:7. Of Christ it is written, "In Him was life; and the life was the light of men"—the only "name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." John 1:4; Acts 4:12.
It is not enough to perceive the loving-kindness of God, to see the benevolence, the fatherly tenderness, of His character. It is not enough to discern the wisdom and justice of His law, to see that it is founded upon the eternal principle of love. Paul the apostle saw all this when he exclaimed, "I consent unto the law that it is good." "The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." But he added, in the bitterness of his soul-anguish and despair, "I am carnal, sold under sin." Romans 7:16, 12, 14. He longed for the purity, the righteousness, to which in himself he was powerless to attain, and cried out, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death?" Romans 7:24, margin. Such is the cry that has gone up from burdened hearts in all lands and in all ages. To all, there is but one answer, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29.
It is impossible for us, of ourselves, to escape from the pit of sin in which we are sunken. Our hearts are evil, and we cannot change them. "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." "The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Job 14:4; Romans 8:7. Education, culture, the exercise of the will, human effort, all have their proper sphere, but here they are powerless. They may produce an outward correctness of behavior, but they cannot change the heart; they cannot purify the springs of life. There must be a power working from within, a new life from above, before men can be changed from sin to holiness. That power is Christ. His grace alone can quicken the lifeless faculties of the soul, and attract it to God, to holiness.
The Saviour said, "Except a man be born from above," unless he shall receive a new heart, new desires, purposes, and motives, leading to a new life, "he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3, margin. The idea that it is necessary only to develop the good that exists in man by nature, is a fatal deception. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." 1 Corinthians 2:14; John 3:7. Of Christ it is written, "In Him was life; and the life was the light of men"—the only "name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." John 1:4; Acts 4:12.
It is not enough to perceive the loving-kindness of God, to see the benevolence, the fatherly tenderness, of His character. It is not enough to discern the wisdom and justice of His law, to see that it is founded upon the eternal principle of love. Paul the apostle saw all this when he exclaimed, "I consent unto the law that it is good." "The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." But he added, in the bitterness of his soul-anguish and despair, "I am carnal, sold under sin." Romans 7:16, 12, 14. He longed for the purity, the righteousness, to which in himself he was powerless to attain, and cried out, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death?" Romans 7:24, margin. Such is the cry that has gone up from burdened hearts in all lands and in all ages. To all, there is but one answer, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29.
Astonishing the arrogance of so many that seek to criticise others whom they have never met, from a position of ignorance concerning everything they believed in, wrote, and lived as a consequence.
KJV Acts 5:34-39
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
KJV Acts 5:34-39
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
She did lie . i know about the heavenly sanctuary . HE didnt wait to enter it either .
Ellie was trying to patch up things . trying to make any excuse
for miller WHO DID SET A DATE . by trying to say HE only had the location wrong
Miller had taught CHRIST was coming for the church on a said date .
SHE said he was right about the event but that miller had the location wrong
that rather IT was WHEN JESUS ENTERED . NOPE .
you see instead of repenting , TRULY REPENTING of setting a date
SHE Tried to patch it up . PS the JWs did something similar too when they missed their date .
And yet folks just keep sitting under such folks .
Anyone could do what they did . OH SET A DATE
then when the DATE is missed , make an excuse and invent something . anyone can do that .
anyone . Rather than repenting in sack cloth and ash , WHICH THEY COULD BE FORGIVEN if they had done that
THEY SUGAR COATED and made the event into something IT NEVER WAS .
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Notice that the very pointed implication by Paul here is that the non-carnal, spiritual mind not only can be, but is subject to the law of God.
And there's no mistaking what he means by "the law of God" because he specifically refers to one of its precepts in chapter 7, verse 7—and it ain't circumcision:
Romans 7:7 KJV — What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 7:10 KJV — And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Romans 8:6 KJV — For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
The language in Romans 7 & 8 is so clear. Carnal flesh can't keep the commandments of God—but the spiritual mind can keep all of them all of the time.
But if we allow our carnal flesh to hold sway over our mind for a minute, as we so often do, we become vessels of wrath in an instant.
However:
1 John 2:1 KJV — My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
It's so simple a child can understand it.
It's interesting. We're often charged with being obsessed with perfection and, sadly, there are some of us that have been guilty.
But it's the deniers of God's law who incessantly insist that the law must be kept perfectly for it to be applicable to the New Covent!
How bizarre.
.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
No there is more that one area in the sanctuary--Holy and most holy. There wasn't even a church when Miller set a date--what are you smoking?
There are reasons for time prophecies. Just like the 70 weeks--it had a beginning and an end.
There is another prophecy the 2300 days-- and then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. How was the earthly sanctuary cleansed? By the High Priest taking the sins into the Most holy place. Do you think God had the 2300 days prophecy put in the Bible for funsies? Negative.
We read that there is a sanctuary in heaven and that the earthly one was modeled after it. (Te cuerdes?) And we also know that the feasts were types of events, right? So one of the feasts was the Day of Atonement/ Do you know what that is?
And do you think God had Moses build a sanctuary with furniture, etc, and rituals just for something to do?
We know the first part of the sanctuary was a place to sacrifice– the altar,fufilled in Jesus, the laver, baptism. This was accomplished while on the earth.
In the holy place we have candlesticks, table of shewbread, and incense. In Rev we see John speaking of Jesus–where was He?What was He wearing?
Rev 1:12-13
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Perhaps the clothes of a high priest? Heb 9 refers to Jesus being a High priest.
He is the Bread of life, hence the shewbread ,and the mention of the throne in Rev 5
.Exodus 24:30 . 30 Put the bread of the Presence on this table to be before me at all times.”
Rev 8 speaks of the Altar of incense: “ Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. 4 The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand. “
So that is all of the furniture in the Holy Place. Why is Jesus there? What room is remaining? Why it’s the room where sins are cleansed from the sanctuary, on the antitypical Day of Atonement.
Unto 2300 days, and the sanctuary will be cleansed’........Why would this be written unless we are to try to discover what it means.
So Mr(s) Bible up, why did God put that time prophecy there?
What does it mean?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and none of that supports the lie of ellen white . they just try and say it do .
I have seen other folks do things similiar to this and they all fall short .
I already know about this teaching my dear friend . I actually read it from their own books .
MILLER was false when he set dates to even begin with . That was HIS DOWNFALL .
but ol ellie picks up the mantle and instead of saying , WELL we made a serious mistake by even setting dates
SHE TRY an SELL THIS STUFF. THE JW s did the same thing . THEY cant be both right .
YET they can do as did ellie and try and prove how they are or were right . THIS lamb wont be heeding EITHER camp .
Miller should never have set a date for the return of CHRIST . and HE DID . AND HE TOLD them
JESUS was COMING FOR THEM . MILLER DID DO THAT and ELLIE only tried to correct the location .
JESUS long ,long before EIGHTEEN HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR ENTERED IN . and trying to mis use daniel
WONT BE CONVINCING ME one bit .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
only part of that is right . i already know when daniel spoke about certain things IT was pointing to CHRIST .
but to try and add to this to make both miller and ellie correct about their eighteen hundred and forty four , IS DEAD WRONG .
Part of daniel is actually talking about the MESSIAH to come . which was and is JESUS CHRIST
but to try and twist stuff to fit into the eighteen hundred and forty four entry stuff in order to fix millers tragedy , IS DEAD WRONG .
Miller thought he had it figured out
ELLIE later thought she had this figured out . BOTH WERE DEAD WRONG .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
date setters have come and gone . NEVER HEED ANYONE who tries to make an excuse for it either .
HEED NOT ELLIE , HEED NOT THE JW camp either .
HEED NOT ELLIE , HEED NOT THE JW camp either .
What is the 2300 day prophecy? Why was it given thenIf the interpreting of dates is wrong. with respect to the prophecy, what about the 70 weeks? Why was it given? Why can we say when it ended. It is a date too.
No kidding. Who is debating that?
Let me tell you a little almost secret... In fact, not really a secret at all as Adventists have known this for 180 odd years, and have been more than happy to tell others all about it, the problem is that among those 'others' are some who have no real interest in the truth, and rely on superficial understanding of the actual issue, and thus condemn the belief from a position of ignorance. There is an inherent danger in that. You may discover that upon further investigation, one has been, in his ignorance, opposing God.
While you may think you know all about something, you really don't. Adventists have not been pretending that there is a biblical explanation for the Great Disappointment. They haven't been covering up a lie. Nor have they been teaching that same so called lie for 180 years. And the church itself, hasn't grown to 25 million adherents globally in the basis of a lie. Do you really believe we are all that stupid? Do you really believe we would join one of the most unpopular denominations on the planet, if there was anything dodgy about the one event and resulting line of biblical doctrines the church was founded on? And being the foundational teaching of Adventism, the 'investigative judgement', there are numerous studies, books, video presentations, seminars, articles, journals, freely and readily available from both our pioneer authors as well as modern theologians explaining step by step the biblical truths that belong to that teaching. They are not defending a lie, or a falsehood, or a fallacy, or a deception. People are welcome to follow the steps taken that affirm the teaching. Sadly, there are some who refuse. Then they go online and pretend they have all the answers and call the teaching a lie.
Truth. 1844 is not a wrong date. It is a biblically established bona fide prophetic date that can be confirmed with a little study and effort and faith.
But I get it. You are afraid to go just a little bit deeper just in case you find what you don't want to find. Won't that be awkward? To discover that Adventists have been teaching the truth all along? What a humbling experience that would be. Did you know the Pharisees knew all along who Jesus was? But pride and a desire to retain their status demanded they deny the obvious? What was the result of that? The world rejected Noah. A prophet for the world at that time. The church rejected John the Baptist. Neither Noah nor John had scriptures attributed to them, yet they had powerful messages for the people of their time announcing the impending arrival of events that changed the world forever. Jesus said the spirit of Elijah would once again be heard through His servants before the second coming. I guess the world is rejecting that also.
What is more sad is that not only is that carnal mind at enmity with God and cannot obey the laws of God, but modern Christians, unlike those of years not so distant past, don't want to obey and search diligently for reasons why they shouldn't have to!!!
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