A Warning to All Who Pretend to Follow Christ

[bdavidc]

Judas Iscariot walked with Jesus, saw His miracles, heard His teaching, and was trusted with a position among the twelve. Yet despite all of this, he was not saved. John 13:2 says that during supper, “the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot… to betray him.” That thought didn’t come out of nowhere. Judas had already opened his heart to sin. Satan only fanned the flame that was already smoldering in Judas’ heart. This didn’t excuse him, it condemned him. The same can happen to anyone who pretends to follow Jesus outwardly but has never been changed inwardly.

Being close to truth doesn’t mean you belong to the truth. Judas was around Jesus daily, yet Jesus said plainly in John 6:70, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” Judas was never born again, never truly believed, and in the end, betrayed the Lord he claimed to serve. In Mark 14:21, Jesus said of Judas, “It had been good for that man if he had never been born.” That is the outcome of a life that refuses repentance and salvation, a terrifying judgment.

Judas is a warning. He looked like a disciple, acted like a disciple, but he was a deceiver. No one around him suspected anything, but Jesus knew. The devil can use anyone who is unsaved, especially those who pretend to be followers of Christ. That’s why Scripture warns us to examine ourselves, whether we are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). Knowing Bible verses or being part of a church doesn’t prove you’re saved. A true believer will repent, believe the gospel, and follow Christ in truth, not in show.

Satan’s tactics are subtle. He doesn’t need to drag someone into open rebellion, he only needs them to delay repentance, to pretend, to play the part without ever surrendering their heart. Judas played with sin, justified it, and eventually acted on it. He did not fall by accident. He made a choice. And if we’re not careful, we can make the same one.

Don’t wait. Don’t fake it. If you know you’re not saved, or if you’re unsure, turn to Jesus Christ now. Repent, believe, and be saved. Because it truly is a dangerous thing to be like Judas, so close to Jesus, and yet still lost.

 

[Kokyu]

The same can happen to anyone who pretends to follow Jesus outwardly but has never been changed inwardly.

But what does it mean to be changed inwardly? How is one certain that this has occurred? Many times, people come to believe they're saved when they aren't because they have no concrete basis from which to examine/test their belief.

That is the outcome of a life that refuses repentance and salvation, a terrifying judgment.

What is it to repent? How does one know one has repented sufficiently or correctly?

A true believer will repent, believe the gospel, and follow Christ in truth, not in show.

But what does it mean, practically, to do these things? Is this actually what it is to be saved, or are these the means to, and the effects of, being saved?

Don’t wait. Don’t fake it. If you know you’re not saved, or if you’re unsure, turn to Jesus Christ now. Repent, believe, and be saved. Because it truly is a dangerous thing to be like Judas, so close to Jesus, and yet still lost.

But how does a Christian man who is like the "carnal babes in Christ" that Paul rebuked in his first letter to Christians at Corinth (1 Co. 3:1-4) tell that he is really saved? Though they were divisive, indulging in gross sexual sin, and selfish, Paul still called these sinful believers at Corinth "temples of the Holy Spirit," "brethren," "God's fields and buildings," and "in Christ." (1 Co. 3, 5, 6, 11)

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

View attachment 63247

Judas Iscariot walked with Jesus, saw His miracles, heard His teaching, and was trusted with a position among the twelve. Yet despite all of this, he was not saved. John 13:2 says that during supper, “the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot… to betray him.” That thought didn’t come out of nowhere. Judas had already opened his heart to sin. Satan only fanned the flame that was already smoldering in Judas’ heart. This didn’t excuse him, it condemned him. The same can happen to anyone who pretends to follow Jesus outwardly but has never been changed inwardly.

Being close to truth doesn’t mean you belong to the truth. Judas was around Jesus daily, yet Jesus said plainly in John 6:70, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” Judas was never born again, never truly believed, and in the end, betrayed the Lord he claimed to serve. In Mark 14:21, Jesus said of Judas, “It had been good for that man if he had never been born.” That is the outcome of a life that refuses repentance and salvation, a terrifying judgment.

Judas is a warning. He looked like a disciple, acted like a disciple, but he was a deceiver. No one around him suspected anything, but Jesus knew. The devil can use anyone who is unsaved, especially those who pretend to be followers of Christ. That’s why Scripture warns us to examine ourselves, whether we are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). Knowing Bible verses or being part of a church doesn’t prove you’re saved. A true believer will repent, believe the gospel, and follow Christ in truth, not in show.

Satan’s tactics are subtle. He doesn’t need to drag someone into open rebellion, he only needs them to delay repentance, to pretend, to play the part without ever surrendering their heart. Judas played with sin, justified it, and eventually acted on it. He did not fall by accident. He made a choice. And if we’re not careful, we can make the same one.

Don’t wait. Don’t fake it. If you know you’re not saved, or if you’re unsure, turn to Jesus Christ now. Repent, believe, and be saved. Because it truly is a dangerous thing to be like Judas, so close to Jesus, and yet still lost.

A question I have seen posed on forums before yet is never answered.

But for Judas,whom Jesus instructed to go and do what he must do, just before Judas left to "betray" him to the Sanhedrin,how would Jesus have fulfilled the mission for which he was born? To die on the cross.

 

[bdavidc]

But what does it mean to be changed inwardly? How is one certain that this has occurred? Many times, people come to believe they're saved when they aren't because they have no concrete basis from which to examine/test their belief.



What is it to repent? How does one know one has repented sufficiently or correctly?



But what does it mean, practically, to do these things? Is this actually what it is to be saved, or are these the means to, and the effects of, being saved?



But how does a Christian man who is like the "carnal babes in Christ" that Paul rebuked in his first letter to Christians at Corinth (1 Co. 3:1-4) tell that he is really saved? Though they were divisive, indulging in gross sexual sin, and selfish, Paul still called these sinful believers at Corinth "temples of the Holy Spirit," "brethren," "God's fields and buildings," and "in Christ." (1 Co. 3, 5, 6, 11)

The Bible gives clear and sufficient answers to all of this, not based on feelings, but on the truth of God’s Word. First, salvation is not about performing well or feeling something emotional. It begins with repentance and faith in Jesus Christ (Mark 1:15). Repentance (metanoia in Greek) means a change of mind, a turning from sin and self to God, and it results in a changed life (Acts 3:19, 1 Thessalonians 1:9). It does not mean sinless perfection, but a new direction. The one who truly repents believes the gospel, trusts in Christ alone for salvation, and is sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, Romans 10:9–10).

You ask, “How does one know they’ve repented sufficiently or correctly?” That question is already looking in the wrong direction. The Bible never says to examine the quality of your repentance, but rather to examine whether you are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). The focus isn’t on how well you repented, but on whether you have truly believed the gospel and whether there is any evidence of the Spirit in your life (Galatians 5:22–23). The root of salvation is faith, but the fruit is transformation. If someone claims to believe but lives in continual rebellion without conviction, correction, or growth, they have no biblical assurance they are saved (1 John 3:6–10).

As for the carnal believers in Corinth mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:1–4, Paul did call them “brethren,” “babes in Christ,” and “God’s building.” He acknowledged that they were saved, but immature. However, that wasn’t an excuse, it was a rebuke. Paul didn’t condone their sin, he warned them that their envy, strife, and divisions were signs of carnality. Throughout the letter, he calls them to repentance and spiritual growth. In 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, he warns that those who practice unrighteousness will not inherit the kingdom of God. In chapter 11, he tells them that because of their sin, some were sick and some had died, a clear sign of God’s judgment on His own people (1 Corinthians 11:30). Hebrews 12:6–8 confirms that God disciplines those who are truly His. If someone lives in unrepentant sin and never receives correction from God, they are not a child of God at all.

So yes, a true believer may fall into sin and act carnally for a time, but they will not stay there unbothered. They will experience God’s chastening, and they will be convicted by the Spirit. The assurance of salvation doesn’t come from a perfect track record, but from the presence of genuine faith that results in ongoing transformation by the Spirit (Romans 8:9, Philippians 1:6). Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8–9), not by works, not by emotion, and not by performance. But true saving faith always results in a changed life that seeks to follow Christ (John 10:27, 2 Corinthians 5:17).

 

[bdavidc]

A question I have seen posed on forums before yet is never answered.

But for Judas,whom Jesus instructed to go and do what he must do, just before Judas left to "betray" him to the Sanhedrin,how would Jesus have fulfilled the mission for which he was born? To die on the cross.

This is one of those questions that assumes Jesus needed Judas in order for God’s plan to succeed, but that is a flawed way of thinking. Scripture never says that Judas was necessary for Christ to die on the cross. What the Bible teaches is that Jesus came to lay down His life willingly, and that His death was determined by God’s foreknowledge and purpose, not by Judas’s decision.

Acts 2:23 says, “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” Judas was part of that process, but not because God needed him, it’s because God allowed him. The betrayal was foretold in Scripture (Psalm 41:9, John 13:18), and Jesus even said, “The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed” (Mark 14:21). Judas’s role fulfilled prophecy, but it does not mean Jesus required Judas to accomplish His mission.

If Judas hadn’t betrayed Jesus, God would still have brought about the crucifixion another way. Why? Because God is sovereign and His plan of redemption does not depend on human cooperation. Jesus said, “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself” (John 10:18). He was always in full control. He knew exactly when and how He would die. He even told His disciples multiple times beforehand that He would be “delivered into the hands of men” and crucified (Matthew 17:22–23). He didn’t say Judas would be the only way that happened.

So to answer the question directly: Jesus would have gone to the cross with or without Judas. Judas was not essential, God’s will was. Judas made his own sinful choice and was held accountable for it, but he did not control the plan of God. God always fulfills His purposes, with us or without us.

 

[Behold]

Judas Iscariot walked with Jesus, saw His miracles, heard His teaching, and was trusted with a position among the twelve. Yet despite all of this, he was not saved.

Noone was "saved", none of the Apostles, noone at all...... until Jesus died on The Cross., as its The Cross of Christ that provides Salvation.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

This is one of those questions that assumes Jesus needed Judas in order for God’s plan to succeed, but that is a flawed way of thinking. Scripture never says that Judas was necessary for Christ to die on the cross. What the Bible teaches is that Jesus came to lay down His life willingly, and that His death was determined by God’s foreknowledge and purpose, not by Judas’s decision.

Acts 2:23 says, “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” Judas was part of that process, but not because God needed him, it’s because God allowed him. The betrayal was foretold in Scripture (Psalm 41:9, John 13:18), and Jesus even said, “The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed” (Mark 14:21). Judas’s role fulfilled prophecy, but it does not mean Jesus required Judas to accomplish His mission.

If Judas hadn’t betrayed Jesus, God would still have brought about the crucifixion another way. Why? Because God is sovereign and His plan of redemption does not depend on human cooperation. Jesus said, “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself” (John 10:18). He was always in full control. He knew exactly when and how He would die. He even told His disciples multiple times beforehand that He would be “delivered into the hands of men” and crucified (Matthew 17:22–23). He didn’t say Judas would be the only way that happened.

So to answer the question directly: Jesus would have gone to the cross with or without Judas. Judas was not essential, God’s will was. Judas made his own sinful choice and was held accountable for it, but he did not control the plan of God. God always fulfills His purposes, with us or without us.

Obfuscating the particulars of scripture as written is not righteous understanding of apologetics.

What if's,could haves, is fulfilling what was previously observed.

No one has yet to answer how Jesus would have otherwise been crucified were it not for Judas?

What is written is what is scripture.

Jesus told Judas to go and do what he must do.

 

[ScottA]

A question I have seen posed on forums before yet is never answered.

But for Judas,whom Jesus instructed to go and do what he must do, just before Judas left to "betray" him to the Sanhedrin,how would Jesus have fulfilled the mission for which he was born? To die on the cross.

One answer (or context), would be: Yes, Jesus would have fulfilled the mission, as another would have been chosen. Perhaps not a follower, but a Sanhedrin spy. But Judas fulfilled the role for both followers and non-follower. He was a Jew, and also a would-be Christian, perhaps appealing to both Jew and Gentile alike.

However, that answer is simply a matter of applying worldly reasoning to a heavenly matter--not actually or ultimately true, but a good explanation for those still operating by or thinking in the ways of this world. Conversely--in the greater heavenly context, just as the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, so too would His betrayer have been His betrayer--before.

 

[Behold]

Jesus told Judas to go and do what he must do.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh"........so, Jesus has "foreknowledge", same as God the Father.

This means that Jesus knew all that was going to happen, before it happened.

So, Jesus told Judas what Jesus already knew He would do.........so, that is not causing it....that is KNOWING IT, before It happens.

"God's Foreknowledge".

It like this..

God, Jesus.......and The Bible, discern your Thoughts.
They read your mind.
They know your motives.
They know who on this Forum is a real Christian, and who on this Forum is Religious but lost, and who is a Satanic pretender.

When Jesus was "pre-incarnate" as the "Word". (John 1)....>He already knew He was coming to earth to be virgin born and later choose apostles, and offer Himself as Israel's Messiah, and finally be rejected and Die on The Cross.
He knew it when He was in Heaven.. He knew it when He was 12 yrs old.
So, He already KNEW what Judas was going to do, exactly like He knows what everyone who is reading my post is thinking about it.. and what you will do next.

Didnt you know?

Now you do.., and remember who told you... Reader.

 

[bdavidc]

Noone was "saved", none of the Apostles, noone at all...... until Jesus died on The Cross., as its The Cross of Christ that provides Salvation.

That’s not true. While it’s correct that the full payment for sin was made at the cross, the Bible is clear that people were saved by faith before the cross, not just after. Abraham was saved long before Jesus died, and Scripture says clearly, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness” (Romans 4:3, Genesis 15:6). That’s salvation by faith.

Jesus also told people during His earthly ministry that their sins were forgiven and their faith had saved them. In Luke 7:50, He said to the woman who washed His feet, “Thy faith hath saved thee, go in peace.” That was before the cross. In Luke 5:20, Jesus forgave a man’s sins based on his faith. In John 5:24, He said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life.” Present tense, not future.

Salvation has always been by grace through faith, whether looking forward to the cross or back to it. The apostles, like the rest of the Old Testament saints, were saved by believing in God’s promise, and Jesus is that promise fulfilled (Galatians 3:8, Hebrews 11:13). Judas was different. He never believed. Jesus said in John 6:64, “There are some of you that believe not,” and in verse 70, He made it clear, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

So yes, people were saved before the cross, not without it, but in anticipation of it, and Judas was never one of them.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

One answer (or context), would be: Yes, Jesus would have fulfilled the mission, as another would have been chosen. Perhaps not a follower, but a Sanhedrin spy. But Judas fulfilled the role for both followers and non-follower. He was a Jew, and also a would-be Christian, perhaps appealing to both Jew and Gentile alike.

However, that answer is simply a matter of applying worldly reasoning to a heavenly matter--not actually or ultimately true, but a good explanation for those still operating by or thinking in the ways of this world. Conversely--in the greater heavenly context, just as the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, so too would His betrayer have been His betrayer--before.

Precisely.

 

[Behold]

That’s not true.

You dont know what you are talking about, and you do that a lot, in your Posts.

So Listen......., and i'll show you why, noone was a CHRISTIAN before CHRIST died for their SIN.

See it Yet ??????????????????????????????????????


Ok, lets try again @bdavidc ..

What is the proof that you are a Christian?

Its just one... only ONE Proof.

Jesus said.....= "You must be born again"........and what is the only proof that you are born again @bdavidc ??

A.) The Spirit of God..... is in you, as = "Christ in You".. and you have become the "temple of the Holy Spirit".

Understand?

Notice....."They that have not the Spirit of Christ (in them) are NONE OF GOD's".

"none of God's"

"none of God's"

AA.) No Apostle, no person on this earth.........had the Spirit of God..IN THEM.... until AFTER= Jesus died on The Cross.

So, ..you dont know this @bdavidc ....so, you think....>>"oh, well, everyone who was following Jesus........was a Christian".

No...they were a disciple or an Apostle, not a CHRISTIan, as There are none of those, until the CROSS births the New Testament Church., "the body of Christ"

Now..........When did the Apostles become CHRISTIANS?

In John 20:22.......AFTER Jesus rose from the Dead..........Jesus came to them and gave them the Holy Spirit and that caused their new Birth in Christ.
Read it., and stop teaching nonsense.


Understand......that the world had to wait until Jesus was back in Heaven, before HE sent down the HOLY Spirit so that it could enter all the believers., and that didnt occure when Jesus was on earth.....it only began at Pentecost. (Acts 2).

 

[PS95]

View attachment 63247

Judas Iscariot walked with Jesus, saw His miracles, heard His teaching, and was trusted with a position among the twelve. Yet despite all of this, he was not saved. John 13:2 says that during supper, “the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot… to betray him.” That thought didn’t come out of nowhere. Judas had already opened his heart to sin. Satan only fanned the flame that was already smoldering in Judas’ heart. This didn’t excuse him, it condemned him. The same can happen to anyone who pretends to follow Jesus outwardly but has never been changed inwardly.

Being close to truth doesn’t mean you belong to the truth. Judas was around Jesus daily, yet Jesus said plainly in John 6:70, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” Judas was never born again, never truly believed, and in the end, betrayed the Lord he claimed to serve. In Mark 14:21, Jesus said of Judas, “It had been good for that man if he had never been born.” That is the outcome of a life that refuses repentance and salvation, a terrifying judgment.

Judas is a warning. He looked like a disciple, acted like a disciple, but he was a deceiver. No one around him suspected anything, but Jesus knew. The devil can use anyone who is unsaved, especially those who pretend to be followers of Christ. That’s why Scripture warns us to examine ourselves, whether we are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). Knowing Bible verses or being part of a church doesn’t prove you’re saved. A true believer will repent, believe the gospel, and follow Christ in truth, not in show.

Satan’s tactics are subtle. He doesn’t need to drag someone into open rebellion, he only needs them to delay repentance, to pretend, to play the part without ever surrendering their heart. Judas played with sin, justified it, and eventually acted on it. He did not fall by accident. He made a choice. And if we’re not careful, we can make the same one.

Don’t wait. Don’t fake it. If you know you’re not saved, or if you’re unsure, turn to Jesus Christ now. Repent, believe, and be saved. Because it truly is a dangerous thing to be like Judas, so close to Jesus, and yet still lost.

John seems to have known too that Judas was unrepentant
John 12:5-6
Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people?” 6Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to [d]steal from what was put into it.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

View attachment 63247

Judas Iscariot walked with Jesus, saw His miracles, heard His teaching, and was trusted with a position among the twelve. Yet despite all of this, he was not saved. John 13:2 says that during supper, “the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot… to betray him.” That thought didn’t come out of nowhere. Judas had already opened his heart to sin. Satan only fanned the flame that was already smoldering in Judas’ heart. This didn’t excuse him, it condemned him. The same can happen to anyone who pretends to follow Jesus outwardly but has never been changed inwardly.

Being close to truth doesn’t mean you belong to the truth. Judas was around Jesus daily, yet Jesus said plainly in John 6:70, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” Judas was never born again, never truly believed, and in the end, betrayed the Lord he claimed to serve. In Mark 14:21, Jesus said of Judas, “It had been good for that man if he had never been born.” That is the outcome of a life that refuses repentance and salvation, a terrifying judgment.

Judas is a warning. He looked like a disciple, acted like a disciple, but he was a deceiver. No one around him suspected anything, but Jesus knew. The devil can use anyone who is unsaved, especially those who pretend to be followers of Christ. That’s why Scripture warns us to examine ourselves, whether we are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). Knowing Bible verses or being part of a church doesn’t prove you’re saved. A true believer will repent, believe the gospel, and follow Christ in truth, not in show.

Satan’s tactics are subtle. He doesn’t need to drag someone into open rebellion, he only needs them to delay repentance, to pretend, to play the part without ever surrendering their heart. Judas played with sin, justified it, and eventually acted on it. He did not fall by accident. He made a choice. And if we’re not careful, we can make the same one.

Don’t wait. Don’t fake it. If you know you’re not saved, or if you’re unsure, turn to Jesus Christ now. Repent, believe, and be saved. Because it truly is a dangerous thing to be like Judas, so close to Jesus, and yet still lost.

Judas was only Religious Carnal in fact ! he did not understand, as he lacked Grace !

No one knew Jesus was the Christ in fact untill Jesus went to Heaven ! Some had some faith that Jesus was the Saviour ? and some with more faith than others, not to mention Nathaniel for one ! who said so.

Jesus is Salvation it's self, knew the Souls of all in fact. but they were picked for the task.
Jesus knew what his own task was to do and all ! He only does the will of the Father.
Judas was not a Devil ! he was only typical Carnal, of this world Religious. Lost !

We see the workings of the Devil cunning in the Religious Jews who tryed to kill Salvation ( Jesus ). They played every dirty trick in fact !

 

[Behold]

John seems to have known too that Judas was unrepentant

Judas was more then just a fake disciple.

Jesus identified Judas as.....'"""one of you is A Devil".......

A.) "A DEVIL"...

Not "has a devil".... not 'is possesed by one"...............but = "IS A Devil".

You're not going to know this Readers........but there is a theology "out there"........and i dont teach it.....that teaches that this "son of perdition"....the Anti-Christ, is Judas = Resurrected.

See, there is a lot of Theology running around.........so, be sure that its only PAUL's Doctrine that is your Home Court and Certainty.

 

[bdavidc]

Obfuscating the particulars of scripture as written is not righteous understanding of apologetics.

What if's,could haves, is fulfilling what was previously observed.

No one has yet to answer how Jesus would have otherwise been crucified were it not for Judas?

What is written is what is scripture.

Jesus told Judas to go and do what he must do.

I answered your question clearly and biblically. You just didn’t like the answer because it doesn’t support your assumption. That doesn’t make it wrong. It just means your argument has no scriptural foundation.

Let me ask you something straight: why are you defending Judas? And more importantly, what does that have to do with the actual point of my post, which was that Judas walked with Jesus and still wasn’t saved? That’s what I said, and it’s true. Nothing in your response changes that.

It looks like you just ignore what the Word of God says and cling to your own logic, you’re not reasoning from Scripture anymore. You’re just looking to argue. Titus 3:9 says to avoid foolish questions and strivings about the law, because they are unprofitable and vain. I’ve given you the truth, I am not obligated to keep going in circles with you.

I’m here to help people understand what the Bible actually says, not to get pulled into endless arguments. If someone genuinely wants to learn, I’m glad to explain Scripture clearly and directly. But I’m not going to waste time debating with someone who just wants to stir things up or force their own view no matter what the Bible says.

If you’re more interested in arguing than listening to the Word of God, then I’m not the one you should be talking to. I answer with Scripture because it’s the final authority. If that’s not enough for you, then the issue isn’t with me, it’s with your attitude toward the truth.

You’re ignoring what the Bible actually says about God’s sovereignty and trying to force the idea that Judas was essential, as if God’s plan hinged on one man’s betrayal. That’s not biblical. Acts 2:23 says Jesus was delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, not by the necessity of Judas. Judas was involved, yes, but that doesn’t make him the only way the crucifixion could have happened. God didn’t need Pharaoh to harden his heart, but He used him (Exodus 9:16, Romans 9:17). Same with Judas. God’s plan doesn’t depend on sinful men, it overrides them.

You asked how Jesus would have been crucified without Judas. That’s like asking how God would’ve parted the Red Sea without Moses. The answer is simple: God would have done it another way, because He is God. Jesus said, “I lay down my life, no man taketh it from me” (John 10:18). He already told His disciples multiple times He would be delivered to the chief priests and crucified (Matthew 17:22–23). He never said Judas was the only way that would happen.

Jesus telling Judas, “That thou doest, do quickly” (John 13:27), was not an endorsement of his role, it was a confirmation that Judas had already made his choice. Jesus knew what was coming, but that doesn’t mean He needed it to happen that way. Mark 14:21 makes this crystal clear, “The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed.” In other words, it was already written that Jesus would die, but Judas’s betrayal made him guilty. He fulfilled prophecy because of his own wickedness, not because God required him for the cross.

You accused me of “obfuscating the particulars of Scripture,” but that’s false. I quoted Acts 2:23, Psalm 41:9, John 13:18, Mark 14:21, and John 10:18 to show exactly what Scripture says. That’s not clouding the truth, that’s rightly dividing it (2 Timothy 2:15). What you are doing is ignoring the full counsel of God’s Word and narrowing it to one moment as if God’s will hinged on Judas. It didn’t. God’s plan was settled before Judas ever made his choice. Scripture says so.

So, unless you actually want the truth, don’t ask me questions just to throw out my answer and argue. If you keep doing that, I’ll take it as a sign you’re not here to discuss Scripture, and I’ll stop engaging. I’m not here to waste time with people who ignore the Bible just to push their own opinion.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

John seems to have known too that Judas was unrepentant
John 12:5-6
Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people?” 6Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to [d]steal from what was put into it.

Judas did repent. Matthew 27:3-5. He did not know what his role was in God's plan of redemption and his new covenant.

It is important I think to also note from the cross Jesus forgave Judas and all of "them" responsible for his crucifixion.

 

[bdavidc]

You dont know what you are talking about, and you do that a lot, in your Posts.

So Listen......., and i'll show you why, noone was a CHRISTIAN before CHRIST died for their SIN.

See it Yet ??????????????????????????????????????


Ok, lets try again @bdavidc ..

What is the proof that you are a Christian?

Its just one... only ONE Proof.

Jesus said.....= "You must be born again"........and what is the only proof that you are born again @bdavidc ??

A.) The Spirit of God..... is in you, as = "Christ in You".. and you have become the "temple of the Holy Spirit".

Understand?

Notice....."They that have not the Spirit of Christ (in them) are NONE OF GOD's".

"none of God's"

"none of God's"

AA.) No Apostle, no person on this earth.........had the Spirit of God..IN THEM.... until AFTER= Jesus died on The Cross.

So, ..you dont know this @bdavidc ....so, you think....>>"oh, well, everyone who was following Jesus........was a Christian".

No...they were a disciple or an Apostle, not a CHRISTIan, as There are none of those, until the CROSS births the New Testament Church., "the body of Christ"

Now..........When did the Apostles become CHRISTIANS?

In John 20:22.......AFTER Jesus rose from the Dead..........Jesus came to them and gave them the Holy Spirit and that caused their new Birth in Christ.
Read it., and stop teaching nonsense.


Understand......that the world had to wait until Jesus was back in Heaven, before HE sent down the HOLY Spirit so that it could enter all the believers., and that didnt occure when Jesus was on earth.....it only began at Pentecost. (Acts 2).

I’ve answered from Scripture, plainly and in context. If you're not actually here to learn or consider what the Bible says, but just want to keep pushing your own view no matter what, then I'm not continuing the discussion. I'm here to help those who genuinely want to understand God’s Word, not to argue in circles with people who reject clear answers. Titus 3:10 gives the instruction, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.” That applies here. You've had your answer. I won’t be responding again.

 

[bdavidc]

Judas was only Religious Carnal in fact ! he did not understand, as he lacked Grace !

No one knew Jesus was the Christ in fact untill Jesus went to Heaven ! Some had some faith that Jesus was the Saviour ? and some with more faith than others, not to mention Nathaniel for one ! who said so.

Jesus is Salvation it's self, knew the Souls of all in fact. but they were picked for the task.
Jesus knew what his own task was to do and all ! He only does the will of the Father.
Judas was not a Devil ! he was only typical Carnal, of this world Religious. Lost !

We see the workings of the Devil cunning in the Religious Jews who tryed to kill Salvation ( Jesus ). They played every dirty trick in fact !

Wow, I honestly didn’t expect to see so many people on a Christian forum defending Judas. That’s really sad. Most people wouldn’t even name their dog Judas, but it seems like some here would name their child Judas because they think he was just a misunderstood guy. That’s not just concerning, it shows how far people are willing to go to twist Scripture and excuse betrayal.

You’re saying Judas was just “carnal and religious,” but Jesus said far more than that. In John 6:70, Jesus said, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” Verse 71 makes it crystal clear He was talking about Judas Iscariot. That’s not symbolic language, that’s Jesus stating exactly what Judas was. Luke 22:3 says, “Then entered Satan into Judas.” The Bible doesn’t say Judas was just deceived or confused, it says he was indwelt by Satan and used as a willing tool to betray the Son of God.

And the claim that “no one knew Jesus was the Christ until He went to Heaven” is simply false. Peter said in Matthew 16:16, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus confirmed that Peter’s confession came from the Father, not man. Nathanael said in John 1:49, “Thou art the Son of God.” The woman at the well believed He was the Messiah (John 4:29). So yes, people knew, because God revealed it to them. Judas never had that revelation because he never truly believed. Jesus said, “There are some of you that believe not,” and He was speaking about Judas (John 6:64).

Trying to downplay Judas’s guilt by blaming the religious leaders or saying he was just carnal doesn’t line up with what Jesus said. Judas made a choice. He walked with Christ, saw His miracles, heard His teaching, and still betrayed Him. And Jesus said it would have been better for that man if he had never been born (Mark 14:21). That is not said about a saved man or someone who was just confused. That’s the final word on Judas.

I’m not going to pretend Judas was misunderstood when the Bible says he was lost. Let Scripture speak, not opinions.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Wow, I honestly didn’t expect to see so many people on a Christian forum defending Judas. That’s really sad. Most people wouldn’t even name their dog Judas, but it seems like some here would name their child Judas because they think he was just a misunderstood guy. That’s not just concerning, it shows how far people are willing to go to twist Scripture and excuse betrayal.

You’re saying Judas was just “carnal and religious,” but Jesus said far more than that. In John 6:70, Jesus said, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” Verse 71 makes it crystal clear He was talking about Judas Iscariot. That’s not symbolic language, that’s Jesus stating exactly what Judas was. Luke 22:3 says, “Then entered Satan into Judas.” The Bible doesn’t say Judas was just deceived or confused, it says he was indwelt by Satan and used as a willing tool to betray the Son of God.

And the claim that “no one knew Jesus was the Christ until He went to Heaven” is simply false. Peter said in Matthew 16:16, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus confirmed that Peter’s confession came from the Father, not man. Nathanael said in John 1:49, “Thou art the Son of God.” The woman at the well believed He was the Messiah (John 4:29). So yes, people knew, because God revealed it to them. Judas never had that revelation because he never truly believed. Jesus said, “There are some of you that believe not,” and He was speaking about Judas (John 6:64).

Trying to downplay Judas’s guilt by blaming the religious leaders or saying he was just carnal doesn’t line up with what Jesus said. Judas made a choice. He walked with Christ, saw His miracles, heard His teaching, and still betrayed Him. And Jesus said it would have been better for that man if he had never been born (Mark 14:21). That is not said about a saved man or someone who was just confused. That’s the final word on Judas.

I’m not going to pretend Judas was misunderstood when the Bible says he was lost. Let Scripture speak, not opinions.

The scripture doesn't state Judas was lost.

The scripture says none were lost but the son of perdition.
The son of perdition is Satan.

That is because Satan ,as scripture states,possessed Judas so he would betray Jesus.


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