Behold
Well-Known Member
When someone who does not believe you have to be forgiven your sin and born again before you die..... is posting verses... then you want to give that a hard pass. @quietthinker
Where did Christian Universalism come from? - New or old?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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When someone who does not believe you have to be forgiven your sin and born again before you die..... is posting verses... then you want to give that a hard pass. @quietthinker
Behold
Well-Known Member
So, your hyper Calvinism ALSO does not believe that....."Jesus came into the world to save sinners" and told them "you must be born again".
So, you reject John 3:16, that says to people who are breathing on this earth and have a bible .. = that if you Beleive In Jesus, you will receive Eternal Life.. as otherwise the same Apostle JOHN told them that the Wrath of God REMAINS on them.......if they dont.
Now.......Im familar with demonic UNIVERSALISM that is your false Gospel. And its a Satanic Gospel that leads people to Hell.@St. SteVen
Don't you believe in the wide and narrow way? (few there be that find it)
Genuine results is the vast majority headed for destruction?
Sounds more like a train wreck, as plans go.
Eternal conscious torment as a consequence is NOT a choice, it's extortion.
Does God have pleasure in burning people?
If loving God is a requirement for salvation, it's not unmerited favor. (grace)
Does reading the Bible make people stupid? - It doesn't have to, but...
Based on observations on the forum, I have to wonder. Mindless parroting of memorized apologetics reveal a lack of cognitive ability. IMHO Does reading the Bible make people stupid? It doesn't have to, but... I have to ask. To be clear, there is plenty of good to learn from the Bible...
www.christianityboard.com
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Reader..
"universalism", teaches that you dont have to be forgiven your sin before you die, and you'll still go to Heaven..
"Universalism" teaches, that you dont have to give God your faith in Christ, before you die, and you'll still go to heaven.
"universalism" teaches, that you dont have to be born again, before yoiu die, and you'll still go to heaven.
"universalism" teaches that you can die a Christ Rejector......having never become a Christian, and you'll still go to heaven.
So, this Teaching is very Satanic, which is obvious to a real Christian, because a real Christians has trusted in Christ, and is forgiven, and is born again.
If you are none of this, then "now is the day of SALVATiON"... "All who call on the name of Jesus, believing, by faith, shall be SAVED".. by God.
Saved from What? = Eternal Damanition.............going to Hell........... as well as redeemed from your sin.
Now...Lets look at what Jesus said.... He said.... Mark 16:16 ."God into all the world and preach the Gospel"
So, if everyone is automatically going To Heaven as Satanic "Universalism" teaches.........then why would Jesus want the Gospel to be preached over the entire world?
Why would God call Pastors and Evangelists to ""preach the Gospel"", and call Missionaries to ""take the Gospel into the world"", .. for the last 2000 yrs, if everyone is going to Heaven, no matter what.... as Satanic Universalism Teaches?
Why are Missionaries dying today, and tomorrow, being slaughtered around the Globe, for taking the Gospel into the world as Jesus commanded.. if everyone is going to be saved in the end, as Satanic Universalism teaches its deceived to teach you?
Then, Jesus speaks about '"Damnation"".....and says, that "He that does not BELIEVE, shall be DANMED".....and that means.. for eternity..
So, that is talking about people who are on the EARTH, not dead yet.........they will be DAMNED, because they didnt BELIEVE... and they dont get a 2nd Chance after the die.....as they are DAMNED going to the Grave, already..
John teaches it this way......"Whomever Believes in Jesus, has eternal life, and whosoever does not believe shall not see (eternal) life, and God's wrath remains on them ..."
So, again this is talking about people who are alive on earth......who wont believe the Gospe, so they bust Hell wide open in their unbelief, after they die.......because they are already DAMNED on earth when they left it.
And how many of those were told that they would be saved in the end by a UNIVERSALIST, who has just sent them to Hell, by lying to them. ?
Now, let me show you how the verses work in context.
Mark 16:17 : "he (she) that (hears the Gospel) and beleiveth not, shall be DAMNED ".....is = John 3:36 : "God's wrath remains on them".
Where does it REMAIN on them?
It remains on then after they die..... as that is "DAMNATION"< that the NT teaches as the "2nd Death".......that starts with going to Hell and continues into the Lake of Fire.
This is not a myth.
"universalism", teaches that you dont have to be forgiven your sin before you die, and you'll still go to Heaven..
"Universalism" teaches, that you dont have to give God your faith in Christ, before you die, and you'll still go to heaven.
"universalism" teaches, that you dont have to be born again, before yoiu die, and you'll still go to heaven.
"universalism" teaches that you can die a Christ Rejector......having never become a Christian, and you'll still go to heaven.
So, this Teaching is very Satanic, which is obvious to a real Christian, because a real Christians has trusted in Christ, and is forgiven, and is born again.
If you are none of this, then "now is the day of SALVATiON"... "All who call on the name of Jesus, believing, by faith, shall be SAVED".. by God.
Saved from What? = Eternal Damanition.............going to Hell........... as well as redeemed from your sin.
Now...Lets look at what Jesus said.... He said.... Mark 16:16 ."God into all the world and preach the Gospel"
So, if everyone is automatically going To Heaven as Satanic "Universalism" teaches.........then why would Jesus want the Gospel to be preached over the entire world?
Why would God call Pastors and Evangelists to ""preach the Gospel"", and call Missionaries to ""take the Gospel into the world"", .. for the last 2000 yrs, if everyone is going to Heaven, no matter what.... as Satanic Universalism Teaches?
Why are Missionaries dying today, and tomorrow, being slaughtered around the Globe, for taking the Gospel into the world as Jesus commanded.. if everyone is going to be saved in the end, as Satanic Universalism teaches its deceived to teach you?
Then, Jesus speaks about '"Damnation"".....and says, that "He that does not BELIEVE, shall be DANMED".....and that means.. for eternity..
So, that is talking about people who are on the EARTH, not dead yet.........they will be DAMNED, because they didnt BELIEVE... and they dont get a 2nd Chance after the die.....as they are DAMNED going to the Grave, already..
John teaches it this way......"Whomever Believes in Jesus, has eternal life, and whosoever does not believe shall not see (eternal) life, and God's wrath remains on them ..."
So, again this is talking about people who are alive on earth......who wont believe the Gospe, so they bust Hell wide open in their unbelief, after they die.......because they are already DAMNED on earth when they left it.
And how many of those were told that they would be saved in the end by a UNIVERSALIST, who has just sent them to Hell, by lying to them. ?
Now, let me show you how the verses work in context.
Mark 16:17 : "he (she) that (hears the Gospel) and beleiveth not, shall be DAMNED ".....is = John 3:36 : "God's wrath remains on them".
Where does it REMAIN on them?
It remains on then after they die..... as that is "DAMNATION"< that the NT teaches as the "2nd Death".......that starts with going to Hell and continues into the Lake of Fire.
This is not a myth.
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LOL
This post a complete ignorance about Universalism. Thanks.
You are actually helping the cause. - LOL
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Im not helping yours.
And that you refer to leading people to Hell with a false Gospel, as 'your cause"......is perhaps the only honest thing you've posted.
So, we can agree that teaching a "doctrine of Devils".. that is Galatians 1:8....is your self described "cause". @St. SteVen
See you there next time.
Behold
Well-Known Member
2 Thes
the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting (eternal) destruction from the presence of the Lord"
Behold
Well-Known Member
Mt 25:46:
And these shall go away into everlasting (eternal) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" or "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.
All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" or "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.
Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21
Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The thing is Behold, you wont stop for long enough (or are unwilling to stop for long enough) to consider that the scripture could be saying something other than what you perceive.
Taken
Well-Known Member
How can “any thing” be eternally tormented, if / when the “thing” is “VOID” of Life?
A human body’s’ life IS Blood.
A human’s soul life IS Gods Breath.
A human’s natural spirits life is the humans natural truth (what his heart naturally learns and believes is true)…which can and often is different than what his carnal mind believes is truth.
* When a body’s life Dies…the blood is lost, spilled, or stops flow, thus the heart stops beating, the lungs stop functioning, and that body is declared Deceased.
* When the body dies, the living soul departs the dead body. A saved departed living soul is escorted to heaven. An unsaved departed living soul is sent to hell.
* Souls in heaven are in peace, comfort, beauty, with God.
* Souls in hell are in duress, discomfort, without God or His beauty.
* A spirit of man, (reborn of Gods SEED) goes to heaven, can Never Die.
* A spirit of man (not reborn). Dies naturally with its body.
* When a body of man dies, that body knows, feels nothing… it is VOID of life.
* it is Only the Departed Living soul of a bodily dead man that…
Can “suffer hells torments”, if it be in hell, separated from God.
(The soul is akin to a recorder, knowing what the living body knew…has sight, hearing, oral communication ability, taste ability, smell ability, feeling of touch…. IOW…is the ( sense “life”… seeing, hearing, speech, taste, smell, feeling…the body experiences, when the living soul is IN the body. )
The living soul in or departed out of the body experiences the same as (its) surroundings dictate.
Pleasant surroundings… pleasant result.
Unpleasant surroundings…unpleasant result.
Hell is utterly unpleasant surroundings.
Even On Earth, a soul in the body can experience unpleasant surroundings, trash, fighting, wars, stench… also Gods beauty of the sky’s, majestic mountains, Forrest’s, beautiful sounds, pleasant aromas, etc.
After judgement; regarding the UN saved soul, the non born again spirit, the dead body.
*The blood (life) is not returned to the dead body.
*The natural spirit (life) is not returned to the dead spirit.
* The Life in the soul (Gods Breath) returns to God. The soul becomes Dead.
The “thing”… lifeless dead body, lifeless dead soul, IS Burned, becomes dust/ ash, and Remembered no more…forgotten.
That ^^^ is Gods mercy…for Human men who elect to Reject God.
So WHAT exactly… shall “LIVE” Eternally, suffer Eternally, because of Eternal Separation from God?
Fallen angels…
Humans “HAVE” a spirit.
Angels “ARE” spirits.
Fallen Angels… have “Lost” ( become banned) from their “estate”… (high heaven.)
Fallen Angels… presently occupy Earth.
Fallen Angels… can not Die… They Are spirits.
Judgement for Fallen Angels is to Lose access (become banned) from access to the face of the Earth ( ie. Mans estate).
Fallen Angels shall continue living, separated from God, in the pit of hell, without power to escape.
Dead, (lifeless) body’s of men…
Dead, (lifeless) soul’s of men…
Dead, (lifeless natural spirits (ie truth in hearts) of men…
Shall be burned in hell fire, forgotten.
Does any “father” have / feel pleasure in punishing their offspring?
And to Note… of WHAT a “Person is”.
A person “IS a living Body (with its functioning BLOOD Life…AND its Living SOUL “IN” it’s Body.
A dead human body, without its living soul IN the Body…
Is NOT a PERSON.
It IS, a cadaver, a corpse, a carcass, a stiff, remains, a dead body.
Gods Grace IS His Offerings…(of Gifts) which, no human man “IS” righteous or deserving of HIs Grace.
Gods GRACE HAS Conditions..
His Order, His Way.
Meet the Conditions…
And He shall Freely without encumbrances, without fear of Removing, losing the Gift… ENSURE the man Keeps his Received Gift.
Reject His Gifts…(reject abiding by “His terms”)
And you shall forfeit receiving His Offered Gift.
Men, banks, businesses Routinely Offer other men … Options, to buy products, invest, get credit, borrow, to marry, etc.
And the Same … those Offerings come with conditions, set by the man, bank, business offerings.
Glory to God,
Taken
So, you are an Annihilationist? Okay.
My questions are still valid. In your view God planned to destroy the vast majority of humankind.
I like to warn believers that Annihilationism is the gateway drug to full-blown Universalism. - LOL
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Universalism ? Total World regard for Christ Jesus is the foundation of such ! because it's about Truth given to the world in fact !
It the Gift that is to be spread to all, for everyones own good ! for without such is a Curse !
Who has such a gift and keeps it under wraps ? or only for your own ends ? for that would not be the Gift now would it !
It the Gift that is to be spread to all, for everyones own good ! for without such is a Curse !
Who has such a gift and keeps it under wraps ? or only for your own ends ? for that would not be the Gift now would it !
Behold
Well-Known Member
Its not a mistranslation.
Hell, was here before Adam was created.
Its not going anywhere, and you can't get rid of it with a faulty "greek lexicon" or your False Satanic Gospel @St. SteVen .
Also, God's Judgement against a Christ Rejector, that "REMAINS" on the one who never BELIEVED in Jesus, never Trusted in Christ, and died......
John 3:36
= .is Eternal.....It lasts for as long as God exists, and that is WHY its eternal @St. SteVen
Taken
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul does not teach "Universalism".
Be sure you realize this, @quietthinker .
See, its Paul who teaches that "Faith is counted by God"........
Its Paul who teaches this Doctrine.....>"Justification by FAITH".
Its Paul who teaches that "Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted to him"........exactly as its counted unto YOU, if you have believed in Jesus.
See, "its God's WILL that everyone BELIEVE in Jesus, whom God Sent"., before you die, if you want you want to go to Heaven.
So, when you read where some deceiver teaches that you can "do that later, after you are dead"......or "Well God is going to cause everyone to believe, eventually"......when in fact God requires OUR Faith in Christ,.....that is of OUR Free will....given to Him Before we die, or we die "in our Sins"......unforgiven, and this can't be changed in Hell........So, many people who are going there, say you can wait, or that God will solve all that for you in the end.......= They are literally teaching a Cross Denying Gospel,.. Galatians 1:8 that is some serious blasphemy.
Dont stand too close to them, as when God's Judgment hits them for this blasphemy, you dont want that heat to burn you, also.
These deceived idiots dont understand that God gives life and takes it also.....and He's not playing around, and because they have not come under the Judgement for their deed yet, they feel they are in the clear..
They're not. They are in the bullseye, and God's mercy is still being offered to them.
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Why do you go off in a repetitive tirade Behold? My guess is that you imagine I am saying something that I am not saying.
If only you would stop for long enough to hear what is said.....or is your filter so blocked your poor hearing has stiffened your neck?
Have you considered that the Pharisees were in the same space; not even Jesus could get through to them?
Behold
Well-Known Member
:When i deal with someone like you, who can't understand simple NT theology, and your reason for being on the forum, is just be try to be a sharp stick in someone's eye.......whomever that is next...then that i even offer you clear theology for you to consider.. ....is really more then you deserve, @quietthinker
I could just leave you and your bizarre opinions and weird thinking to the Deceivers, here.
But ive always tried to show you, since i met you here....even before you changed your Alt's picture....... how to learn some basic Pauline theology.......not that you are interested in learning, but because you need some direction.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Seeing you think you understand what I believe perhaps you could tell me what you think I believe and I will let you know if you're on track?
Behold
Well-Known Member
Noone knows what you actually believe about Salvation as found as Jesus on The Cross.
Post that Thread.
Ive posted over 100 that deal with that Topic, and about 300 more that deal with much of Paul's Theology.
So...... it would be some kind of interesting for you to to try to explain it. @quietthinker
If you do, try not to become False, like Episkopos, and teach that....>"The Cross is not about Forgiveness".
And try not to become false like St Steven and teach that "everyone goes to Heaven"..>>"there is no Hell".
Give it a shot, or just do what you do, and post obtuse, strange little thoughts.. that flow out of your head like hot air out of a pink balloon.
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