Apokatastasis in the early church
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Worthy topic … Thanks.
I view “Church Fathers”, as the First Chosen, and the “Appointed Apostles” BY Jesus Himself…and their Writings Approved creditable by God.
The (so called “Apostolic Fathers”)…
Appointed by Jesus or Not,
I would Not give “the Esteemed fatherhood title”;
Nor “blind credit For their accuracy”.
Not news…
”lessor titles”… (bishops, priests, deacons, teachers, etc. per their roll was / is appropriate… to Refer to and Directly Call them….
“Calling To God” or Referencing God, with the Title of Father, is Reserved For “The Creator God.”
“Referencing Abraham” with the Title of father is Reserved For “The Father of many Nations”, as was bestowed upon Abraham, BY, God.
Not news…
VERIFY Everything.
Not news…
1 Thes. 5:
[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Not news…
Illiteracy was (for Centuries, and still) a major “monkey wrench”, in World society of the People At Large…to “effectively VERIFY all things”.
Glory to God,
Taken
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
AGREE and Thank You for the Reminder
"What has been WILL BE, for there is nothing new under the sun"
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made"
2 Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
BIG Thank You for the needed reminder that the "early church fathers" are the Apostles.
Not those who came after.
"God is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else."
Acts 17:25
For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
Didn't you get the memo?
Are these the Apostles to whom you refer?
Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa
(and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your list does not included a single Apostle = which i am suspect you asked for your argument/position
There were only 12 Apostles.
Continuation of "apostles" is a man-made RCC doctrine designed by the serpent and customized thru RCC for world-wide deception.
The only, Saint John the Apostle, is the one who walked with the LORD Jesus Christ and witnessed:
1.) The Direct, In Person, Choosing by Christ
2.) The Miracles of CHRIST
3) the Crucifixion of Christ
4.) the Resurrection of Christ
5.) received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost
6.) received the Revelation of the LORD Jesus Christ
7.) wrote the Gospel of John and 1 John, 2 John and 3 John
Are you claiming that leadership in the Body of Christ died with the original Apostles?
Obviously the work continued in the hands of capable leaders known as the Early Church Fathers.
Saw this in passing. Testimony of the Early Church Fathers helps to confirm the gospel accounts.
But @David in NJ claims they were of the serpent. ???
External Testimony from Early Church Fathers:
Documents from Papias (early 2nd century AD) and Irenaeus (late 2nd century AD) affirm that Mark was a companion of Peter and wrote down Peter’s recollections of Jesus. Papias also attributes the Gospel of Matthew to the Apostle Matthew, who walked with Christ. Such early testimonies strengthen our confidence that Gospel authors carefully preserved Jesus’s words.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your presentation is exactly what i suspected your argument/position.
It is a failed position since your list is of men who are not the Apostles and never were.
The ONLY "church fathers" are the Apostles and OT Prophets where CHRIST is the Chief Cornerstone.
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
many now suckle from the teets of a harlot my f riend . Go to and behold the land
for this massive move of early church fa thers came in and also took over a lot of the protestant .
ANY guesses from whence it came . If you said R and double C ya co rrect .
THEY did this . You will w eep for many my f riend before this is all ov er .
I tried to tell us THE HARLOT DID inv ade and she and her co workers has taken over much of the protestant realm .
Stick to the bible and to the bible shall we stick my friend . I seen errors in many writings of many men .
YET NE VER ONCE has an error been seen IN THE BIBLE . its T RUTH and by IT shall we test all .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Many moons and countless days ago
there dwelt a man in joppa .
Another man called cornelious had an angel appear and tell him to go and f ind this man
and he has words for you to hear . HE will TELL you what you must do .
So off cornelious sent a few men . And came to pe ter and told him to come with them .
Here it comes david , pay real close heed to this next example .
Upon peter entering the house , cornelious and ot hers fell before him
and peter said
Was it A
HOLD thy ground till i put on my robes and my ring and ye shall kiss it
OR was it GET UP i am a man just like you . PETER never was and never would have
supported the whorish moves of men who loved flattering titles and to be seen of men
and called most HOLY FATHER and most HOLY reverand . RATHER ODD THEM POPES SURE DID .
BIG fancy clothes , Big most holy titles , and men coming before them as though THEY BE GOD
and kneeling before them to KISS their ring . Please , THEY AINT FOOLING ME FRIEND .
THEY ARE THE ONES JESUS WARNED US TO BEWARE OF
and yes the NAR realm of much of the protestants do the same , TOUCH NOT GODS ANNOINTED
HOW DARE TH EE correct me , WHERE I WALK IS HOLY GROUND
THIS people AINT fooling me david . THANKS BE TO GOD , HIS GRACE , HIS SPIRIT .
HERE is who they are fooling , THEM SELVES and all who sit under them . DUPED i say . . DECEVIED THEY ALL ARE .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your correct assessment also includes 'Doctorate of Divinity' amongst the Protestants = 'respect of persons'
Gospel of John is the KEY to escaping man-made 'christiandumb'
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit Says: "Choose you this day whom you will serve"
Steven, you chose falsehood over Truth via sss 'serpent speak slander' = "David in NJ claims they were of the serpent"
You are not doing well = pray this each morning and if needed 3x a day = Psalm 119:133
Direct my steps by Your word,
And let no iniquity have dominion over me.
Slander?
Here's what you wrote.
Anything there about the serpent?
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
What EXACTLY was denoted as from the "serpent" in my post
KEY phrase: EXACTLY as denoted
denote:
transitive verb
- To mark; indicate.
"a frown that denoted increasing impatience." - To serve as a symbol or name for the meaning of; signify.
"A flashing yellow light denotes caution." - To signify directly; refer to specifically.
"The word “river” denotes a moving body of water and connotes such things as the relentlessness of time and the changing nature of life."
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
I don’t see anyone making that claim.
IN Brief:
The obvious IS recorded and Verifiable IN Scripture…
* Gods Chosen People ISRAEL…
* “PURPOSED” To The FEW, ISRAEL, TO be Teachers, of Gods WORD, TO ISRAEL, and Thereafter:
IF and WHEN “prepared”…
Teachers: To the WHOLE WORLD.
* A HUGH, DIFFICULT, often FRUSTRATING, APPOINTED SERVICE, TASK.
* Ancient History Fact…
ISRAEL… the FEW…
NOT ISRAEL… the MANY…
Continual conflicts, subduing, scattering, chaos, co-mingling, physical dividing, of both, ISRAEL and NON ISRAEL.
* DILEMMA !!
* Gods INTERVENING….SOLUTION.
* A Mystery of the All knowing, All powerful Invisible God…
* God, He, Among ISRAEL, Already “Established with the TITLE… Father of us All.”
Duet: 32:
[6] Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
Rom. 4:
[16] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Eph.4:
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
* God “Purposed” IN Himself…
That Gods WORD, BE REVEALED (TO the eyes and ears of Earthly men…) IN the “Likeness AS an Earthly man…”
* TO SPEAK, TEACH, PREACH, The True WORD of God, First TO ISRAEL, and Thereafter ANY “NON - ISRAEL” interested Individual.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.
Eph. 1
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
When YOU Pray… Pray in this manner… TO He who IS your Father…creator, Maker…
Matt 6:
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
You are “acceptive” of assigning “father status to the same Humans, men assigned the title of “fathers”… that which, Scripture assigns titles of Teachers, Priests, Bishops, Deacons, etc. titles.
I disagree with men, and rather accept Scriptural Teaching.
Glory to God,
Taken
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The scripture does say this:
Ac 3:21 Whom(Jesus) the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of "all"(synecdoche) things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began
However, we must view "all" or "pas" in the Greek, as a classic use of the the synecdoche. It doesn't mean that Lucifer, all of his host and the eternally lost who were cast into the lake of fire will be restored. Reading that into the text is a misunderstanding. It's a reference to the New Heaven/New Earth
AT Robertson:
Vincent:
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I'm familiar with the "all doesn't mean ALL" argument.
That God will only restore SOME things, he will not restore ALL things.
Hogwash.
Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
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