Mary the Queen of Heaven?

[amigo de christo]

From whence hast thou derived at such a mindset?

ask me from whence that person has derived such a mindset . A mindset that points to mary NOT JESUS .
that points to male and female , NOT the SPIRITUAL .
A quick hint . NOT FROM GOD at all comes that mindset he teaches .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you for your response.

i am waiting on @Fathom response.

what would you do if i made a real simple statement .
And that statement said a massive amount of christains now have no idea
what god they love or follow . Would that statement sound like the rantings of a hater .
And sadly how easy this is to be proven .
How does one know if who they truly love has been GOD or has it been the god who has come to play as though HE IS GOD .
HAve you ever seen GOD . heck even moses was not allowed that . At most , AND FOR HIS OWN SAFETY ,
moses caught but a glimpse of the wee most outer parts of GOD .
Have you seen JESUS .
The apostels did . But we have not seen him as HE IS david .
SO my question to you is
IF none has seen him ,, HOW do they know they truly love him .
Wanna hint . though i am pretty sure you already know the answer .
Here is the hint . FOR this cause came i into the world and for this reason was i born
to TESTIFY OF THE TRUTH .
TRUTH david . TRUTH .
as HE IS the TRUTH .
And what is HIS name . THE WORD OF GOD .
SO
if a man loves not but rather twists the words of GOD , HOW CAN THAT MAN EVEN HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD
let alone LOVE GOD .
TRUTH david . TRUTH .
And no matter how much this generation hates hearing this
EVERY WORD OF GOD IS TRUTH . AND g uess what book is full of the words of GOD , the words inspired by the SPIRIT .
IF YA SAID BIBLE . THEN BANG ON SPOT ON RIGHT you are .
HOW do they treat the words in that bible . DO THEY TWIST and omit , OR , OR DO THEY SIMPLY JUST BELIEVE .
Sheep beleive david . wolves twist .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you for your response.

i am waiting on @Fathom response.

and what would you do if i told you that the mass majority
of christains within christendom
Have been sold a false love .
IT is written that if a man loves not his brother who he can see
then he loves NOT GOD who he has not seen .
WHAT would you do if i told you even satan can quoate that very truth .
AND YET ONCE again use a love thy neighbor that is actually hate .
IS that truth i just wrote or is it a lie of a man man who is a h ater .
WELL LEST JUST SEE .
MANY today thinks its so lovey do , so caring , so kind
TO ALLOW SINS to remain upon their neighbor as they say HEY DONT Judge to those who do correct sin
and even say STOP HATING ON THEM .
NOW LETS SEE WHAT GOD SAYS AbouT ALL of that .
And belifve me david , IF IT IS WRITTEN IT IS THE TRUTH .
YE shall not HATE your neighbor in your heart , YOU WILL CORRECT HIM and NOT ALLOW SIN UPON HIM .
SOunds to me like satan has used the phrase dont hate and do love , ONLY HE LIED TO THEM ALL WHEN HE DID .
HE sold them the judge not corrrect not , as though it was love and even the LOVE OF GOD .
KINDA ODD dont ya think . GOD calls it hate TO ALLOW SIN to remain upon them and not to correct them .
And folks think i am the judgmental hater and monster . No sir. by grace GOD just put the real
AGAPE love upon my heart . AND GUESS WHAT THAT LOVE
does love above all , EVEN MORE than mother , EVEN more than father or sons or daughters , or wife .
IT LOVETH GOD , HIS CHRIST and thus darn sure would have loved that WHICH PLEASES GOD . TRUTH . T RUTH .
TRUTH .

 

[David1701]

Charles Chiniquy?
REALLY??

ANYBOY who takes Chiniquy seriously in this day and age is NOT interested in Truth.
Time for a History Lesson on Ol’ Charley . . .

Chiniquy was a bitter ex-priest who was excommunicated in 1855 after TWICE being suspended for moral terpitude. He spent the rest of his life lashing-out at the Church – even to the point of accusing the Church of murdering of Abraham Lincoln!

In 1885, he wrote a book titled Fifty Years in the Church of Rome about the “horros” of the Church which has been DEBUNKED by scores of researchers – both Catholic and Protestant alike. He was subsequently expelled from Protestant assemblies due to embezzlement and "misappropriation of money”.

Do your Homework.
The fact that you present Chiniquy as a “Messenger of Trith” speaks VOLUMES about YOU . . .

Soooo, “Queen of Heaven” is only a “Pagan title??

Here is a short list of Pagan titles and terms that are SHARED by Christianity:
- Lord
- God
- Liturgy
- Sacred
- Sacrifice

Does this mean that we can NO LONGER use these Biblical terms?
Your WEAK argument is crushed under the weight of your own ignorance . . .

Chiniquy complained to the Bishop of Chicago (Anthony O'Regan) about his treatment of the Catholic French Canadians there. The bishop threatened to excommunicate him, if he did not agree to be reassigned elsewhere. Chiniquy refused to be reassigned, so the bishop later sent him a letter of excommunication. This is hardly "moral terpitude"!

Chiniquy is far from the only person to think that the Jesuits were likely involved in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln; and, it was Abraham Lincoln who defended Chiniquy, in a court case, in 1855, brought by another Catholic (Peter Spink).

Your characterisation of Chiniquy as being "expelled" from Protestant due to "embezzlement" and "misappropriation of money" is also an over-the-top exaggeration of the facts. See the link below.

Charles Chiniquy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Bible ONLY speaks of the "Queen of Heaven" as a pagan title (and it's only mentioned in the O.T.), NEVER as a title for Mary.

 

[bdavidc]

Your mediator is Sola scriptura (66 books) introduce by martin luther and john calvin the rebels. You’re bound by it, and your understanding can’t go any further.

Based on sola scriptura (66 books), the passage I’m able to point to is Paul’s writing in 1 Corinthians 14:34-38.

Since you teach scripture, could you help me understand Paul’s point in 1 Corinthians 14:34-38?

Fathom, 1 Corinthians 14:34-38 does not support anything you have said about Mary being Queen of Heaven, Christ being inwardly female, or Mary functioning as a mediator.

Paul's subject in 1 Corinthians 14 is order in the gathering of the church. He has already told tongue-speakers to “keep silence” when there is no interpreter (v. 28), and he tells a prophet to “hold his peace” when another receives revelation (v. 30). The same Greek verb, sigaō, is being used. It is not absolute silence under every circumstance. It is silence required for orderly worship.

That must also be understood alongside 1 Corinthians 11:5, where Paul plainly refers to “every woman that prayeth or prophesieth.” So 1 Corinthians 14:34 cannot mean that a woman is forbidden from ever speaking a word in the assembly.

Paul explains the particular problem when he says, “And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home” (1 Corinthians 14:35). Whatever specific disorder was occurring, Paul was correcting it and requiring submission and order rather than confusion.

Then notice verses 36-38:

“What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”

That actually brings us straight back to the issue I raised with you. Paul does not tell Christians to go beyond what God has revealed and invent spiritual doctrines. He tells them to recognize the authority of what was written.

So now show me how 1 Corinthians 14:34-38 teaches that Jesus is inwardly female, that Mary is Queen of Heaven, that Christians should pray to Mary, or that we should place ourselves under Mary's protection.

It does not.

You changed the subject from proving your claims to attacking Scripture as my authority. But attacking the standard does not prove your doctrine. If your teaching comes from God, then show where God revealed it.

As Paul himself wrote earlier in this same letter: “that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6).

That is the issue. Where is it written?

 

[Grailhunter]

You are right. There's nobody in heaven who is dead. And there's nobody alive until the resurrection.

There are aways exceptions. Enoch and Elijah and supposedly Mary.

 

[David in NJ]

and supposedly Mary.

Pure fiction = made up by men void of the truth

 

[Grailhunter]

Pure fiction = made up by men void of the truth

Bible only is great for foundational beliefs but as Christianity moved on there were a lot of changes and a lot of events. And this is where the Bible only people have theological quagmires. There are thousands of events and miracles by Mary, witnessed by thousands of people over the centuries. She converted South America to Christianity.
Then Christianity forbad polygamy, concubinage, and slavery. Then required a church wedding ceremony to be married. Nothing about that in the Bible.
But in function Bible only did not work out, once they got Bibles in their hands in the 16th century they fractured the church into thousands of denominations. So Bible only ended up as opinions. And Christian events did not stop at the end of the biblical era. And the most of Protestants adopted some of the Catholic doctrines regarding the 3 in 1 God and Original Sin.
But belief in Mary is not a salvation thing, I worship with many denominations that do not believe in her ministry. So you do not believe? That is freedom of beliefs.

 

[David in NJ]

Bible only is great for foundational beliefs but as Christianity moved on there were a lot of changes and a lot of events. And this is where the Bible only people have theological quagmires. There are thousands of events and miracles by Mary, witnessed by thousands of people over the centuries. She converted South America to Christianity.
Then Christianity forbad polygamy, concubinage, and slavery. Then required a church wedding ceremony to be married. Nothing about that in the Bible.
But in function Bible only did not work out, once they got Bibles in their hands in the 16th century they fractured the church into thousands of denominations. So Bible only ended up as opinions. And Christian events did not stop at the end of the biblical era. And the most of Protestants adopted some of the Catholic doctrines regarding the 3 in 1 God and Original Sin.
But belief in Mary is not a salvation thing, I worship with many denominations that do not believe in her ministry. So you do not believe? That is freedom of beliefs.

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Brakelite]

There are aways exceptions. Enoch and Elijah and supposedly Mary.

Forgot about Enoch. Mary a myth. I wonder about the widows son who Elijah raised. Did he die twice? Don't know. Same with Lazarus.

 

[Grailhunter]

Forgot about Enoch. Mary a myth. I wonder about the widows son who Elijah raised. Did he die twice? Don't know. Same with Lazarus.

Mary is pretty lively myth.
It looks like he died twice.
Not sure what you mean about Lazarus.

 

[Grailhunter]

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

First off it is not a Gospel. It the history of Christianity. Like I said, there were a lot of changes in Christianity after the biblical period. Those changes do not violate the Gospel.

 

[Brakelite]

Bible only is great for foundational beliefs but as Christianity moved on there were a lot of changes and a lot of events. And this is where the Bible only people have theological quagmires. There are thousands of events and miracles by Mary, witnessed by thousands of people over the centuries. She converted South America to Christianity.
Then Christianity forbad polygamy, concubinage, and slavery. Then required a church wedding ceremony to be married. Nothing about that in the Bible.
But in function Bible only did not work out, once they got Bibles in their hands in the 16th century they fractured the church into thousands of denominations. So Bible only ended up as opinions. And Christian events did not stop at the end of the biblical era. And the most of Protestants adopted some of the Catholic doctrines regarding the 3 in 1 God and Original Sin.
But belief in Mary is not a salvation thing, I worship with many denominations that do not believe in her ministry. So you do not believe? That is freedom of beliefs.

For a theologically educated individual, I wonder at your lack of understanding of history and human nature. First, Satan can work what appear to be miracles. And those changes that were wrought in the church over the last 2000 years, if not rooted in scripture, must be treated with great caution, because while the true gospel spread throughout the world, do also did the false. One must discern between truth and error, and there is only one sure way, through the scriptures and guidance of the holy Spirit.
One way to judge historically whether one has been on the right track, is to understand that the true church survived in the wilderness for 1260 years, while the false persecuted the church in the wilderness relentlessly, enforcing its doctrines and conversions through war, crusades, and government sanctioned and executed genocide. Hence the reformation, which was God's intervention through Catholic protests to bring about a restoration of truth. Human nature however is stubborn, and while one truth was embraced by some, they tended further light. Result... division. Not God's fault. Man's fault for rejecting further light.
I would like to explain further from a prophetic context but this post is already long enough.

 

[sondring7]

The writings of the early Church Fathers are often dismissed by Protestants, and many remain unaware of them, largely because they view Catholics as a harlot.

Can you give an example of an early Church Father teaching that is rejected by Pros yet is supported/confirmed by the 27 NT Books

 

[Brakelite]

First off it is not a Gospel. It the history of Christianity. Like I said, there were a lot of changes in Christianity after the biblical period. Those changes do not violate the Gospel.

Purgatory, eternal torment, a false priesthood and sanctuary, forgiveness through the confessional, Sunday sacredness, the latter developments of the trinity and numerous other innovations are not in any respect biblical.

Mary is pretty lively myth.

Satan is a very lively liar.

 

[Grailhunter]

For a theologically educated individual, I wonder at your lack of understanding of history and human nature. First, Satan can work what appear to be miracles. And those changes that were wrought in the church over the last 2000 years, if not rooted in scripture, must be treated with great caution, because while the true gospel spread throughout the world, do also did the false. One must discern between truth and error, and there is only one sure way, through the scriptures and guidance of the holy Spirit.
One way to judge historically whether one has been on the right track, is to understand that the true church survived in the wilderness for 1260 years, while the false persecuted the church in the wilderness relentlessly, enforcing its doctrines and conversions through war, crusades, and government sanctioned and executed genocide. Hence the reformation, which was God's intervention through Catholic protests to bring about a restoration of truth. Human nature however is stubborn, and while one truth was embraced by some, they tended further light. Result... division. Not God's fault. Man's fault for rejecting further light.
I would like to explain further from a prophetic context but this post is already long enough.

I understand that most Protestants do not believe in the ministry of Mary. That is your belief and you are entitled to your belief and so am I.

And as far as the atrocities of the Catholic Church, their atrocities were many.

 

[Grailhunter]

Purgatory, eternal torment, a false proposals and sanctuary, forgiveness through the confessional, Sunday sacredness, the latter developments of the trinity and numerous other innovations are not in any respect biblical.

Satan is a very lively liar.

I am not defending Catholic Beliefs as a whole. I am just talking about Mary's ministry.
The Catholics have many faulty doctrines and beliefs.

 

[Fathom]

From whence hast thou derived at such a mindset?

Naught shall be granted unto thee ’less thou dost repent, mend thy ways, and inscribeth a Hail Mary prayer. Then shall I ponder thy request.......

The fear of the Lord is Knowledge and understandings.

 

[Fathom]

Paul explains the particular problem when he says, “And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home” (1 Corinthians 14:35). Whatever specific disorder was occurring, Paul was correcting it and requiring submission and order rather than confusion.

assumptions?

Then notice verses 36-38:

“What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”

from what i shared in post #75, you've got three possibilities to pick from:

1) Jesus judge men alone.
2) Jesus judges men and woman, with woman judged via Mary.
3) Jesus judge men and women, Jesus contains both aspects.

Based on 1 Corinthians 14:34-38, Paul went with option 1.
The catholic went with option 2.
the rebel churches went with option 3.

That actually brings us straight back to the issue I raised with you. Paul does not tell Christians to go beyond what God has revealed and invent spiritual doctrines. He tells them to recognize the authority of what was written.

martin luther invented new doctrines.

That is the issue. Where is it written?

you won't receive any scripture from me until you repent, make amends, and post a Hail Mary prayer........

 

[Fathom]

Can you give an example of an early Church Father teaching that is rejected by Pros yet is supported/confirmed by the 27 NT Books

None shall be given.