2000 years later, only Paul has the authority

[ScottA]

1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
...
What don't people understand ?
Christ selected Paul to teach how we today are saved, not Peter, not John, not Matthew, not James but ONLY Paul
Disagree ?
Then list the verses that teach that the 12 have the same authority as Paul as taught in Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9, 1 Tim 1:16.

Where the teachings and writings of the other apostles are often only foundational, they are that.

But, more importantly--what do you make of Paul's "pattern" being defined by him--not as first and last, but only as "first?"

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hey stump, where did I claim Paul was claiming to be the first Christian ?
NOWHERE :)
So read the verse again stump & try to understand what Paul is writing stump
1 Tim 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Hey Pandas, you wrote that some readers don't understand what is written in I Timothy 3:16. I supplied explanatory notes. Often the problem with comprehension of any writings is the isolating of words, phrases, sentences, and paragraphs from their context.

Context is king, it pays to remember.

 

[Brakelite]

Hey stump, where did I claim Paul was claiming to be the first Christian ?
NOWHERE :)
So read the verse again stump & try to understand what Paul is writing stump
1 Tim 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Are you suggesting that when Peter, Philip, Thomas, and other apostles ministered to Gentiles, those Gentiles' conversions are to be considered doubtful because those who taught them had no authority to do so?

 

[faithhopecharity]

1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
...
What don't people understand ?
Christ selected Paul to teach how we today are saved, not Peter, not John, not Matthew, not James but ONLY Paul
Disagree ?
Then list the verses that teach that the 12 have the same authority as Paul as taught in Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9, 1 Tim 1:16.

All the successors of the apostles have authority until Christ returns
mt 28:19 acts 1:8

thks

 

[Brakelite]

All the successors of the apostles have authority until Christ returns
mt 28:19 acts 1:8

thks

How are those "successors" identified? And wherein does scripture declare that authority is bequeathed through succession?

 

[faithhopecharity]

a

How are those "successors" identified? And wherein does scripture declare that authority is bequeathed through succession?

acts 1:15-26

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) (peter has authority as head of the apostles)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

thks

 

[Lambano]

2000 years later, only Paul has the authority​

Does Jesus know this? I'll let you tell Him.

 

[Lambano]

 

[Brakelite]

a

acts 1:15-26

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) (peter has authority as head of the apostles)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

thks

No succession there at all. Toss of a coin. And your statement that Peter was appointed as head of the apostles is assumption... on the basis he talked a lot. James was the spokesman for the Jerusalem council in Acts.

 

[faithhopecharity]

No succession there at all. Toss of a coin. And your statement that Peter was appointed as head of the apostles is assumption... on the basis he talked a lot. James was the spokesman for the Jerusalem council in Acts.

acts 1:15
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

standing up is a sign of authority!

and God chose Peter
Isa 22:21-22
mt 16:18-19
Jn 21:15-17


thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

How are those "successors" identified? And wherein does scripture declare that authority is bequeathed through succession?

Jn 20:21-23 same as Christ

and as Christ was an apostle and chose others and sent them, it's those who have been sent!

rom 10: 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
...
What don't people understand ?
Christ selected Paul to teach how we today are saved, not Peter, not John, not Matthew, not James but ONLY Paul
Disagree ?
Then list the verses that teach that the 12 have the same authority as Paul as taught in Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9, 1 Tim 1:16.

acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

thks

 

[Dryhn]

Maybe I'm not understanding you.

What did the Apostles of Jesus teach?
I'm not asking about Paul now.
I'm asking,what did those who journeyed with Jesus during his ministry teach after Jesus departed Earth?

When the Apostles,formerly his students,disciples, were the ones whose feet Jesus personally anointed and blessed to carry and fulfill the great commission.
The spread of his good news. Did they not have authority?

The apostles taught their respective gospel to their audience
Gal 2:7-9 teaches who taught what to who
Gal 1:11-12 is clear who Christ taught
Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 is also self-explanatory
Gal 2:2 Christ sent Paul to inform the 12 of what Paul was selected to teach
1 Cor 15:1-4 is what Paul taught

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
...
What don't people understand ?
Christ selected Paul to teach how we today are saved, not Peter, not John, not Matthew, not James but ONLY Paul
Disagree ?
Then list the verses that teach that the 12 have the same authority as Paul as taught in Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9, 1 Tim 1:16.

@PeterAndroz, I'll answer you with two passages that teach God's inspiration of the whole Bible:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 in order that the person of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

2Pe 1:16 For we did not make known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ by following ingeniously concocted myths, but by being eyewitnesses of that one's majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when a voice such as this was brought to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
2Pe 1:18 And we ourselves heard this voice brought from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain,
2Pe 1:19 and we possess as more reliable the prophetic word, to which you do well if you pay attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
2Pe 1:20 recognizing this above all, that every prophecy of scripture does not come about from one's own interpretation,
2Pe 1:21 for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

How do you respond?

 

[ScottA]

1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
...
What don't people understand ?
Christ selected Paul to teach how we today are saved, not Peter, not John, not Matthew, not James but ONLY Paul
Disagree ?
Then list the verses that teach that the 12 have the same authority as Paul as taught in Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9, 1 Tim 1:16.

The objections you are getting here are not about who had authority, but rather what authority they had. Yes, Paul's authority was unique--not by gospel--but by the longevity of the Church Age as opposed to Israel's time being almost "finished."

The 12 were taught, and rightly expected Jesus to return "soon." That is the difference you have locked onto--that's the rift you have discovered. Because the timing regarding the Church was to be different than for Israel.

This is a big topic, a mystery, and the cause of much confusion (and "delusion").

Paul spelled it out, but most have not taken it fully to heart, but believed the "lie" taught by the "false teachers" spoken of by Peter. The greatly misunderstood passage regarding the difference between Israel and the Church among the gentiles, is "but each one in his own order" or time (1 Corinthians 15:20-23). In the original language "each one" is defined as "each individual person" (being saved in their own time--individually).

There's more if you want to get into it.

 

[Dryhn]

@PeterAndroz, I'll answer you with two passages that teach God's inspiration of the whole Bible:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 in order that the person of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

2Pe 1:16 For we did not make known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ by following ingeniously concocted myths, but by being eyewitnesses of that one's majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when a voice such as this was brought to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
2Pe 1:18 And we ourselves heard this voice brought from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain,
2Pe 1:19 and we possess as more reliable the prophetic word, to which you do well if you pay attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
2Pe 1:20 recognizing this above all, that every prophecy of scripture does not come about from one's own interpretation,
2Pe 1:21 for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

How do you respond?

Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9

Who is the Christ selected & ALL agreed Apostle & Minister to teach you the gospel ?

 

[Dryhn]

The objections you are getting here are not about who had authority, but rather what authority they had. Yes, Paul's authority was unique--not by gospel--but by the longevity of the Church Age as opposed to Israel's time being almost "finished."

The 12 were taught, and rightly expected Jesus to return "soon." That is the difference you have locked onto--that's the rift you have discovered. Because the timing regarding the Church was to be different than for Israel.

This is a big topic, a mystery, and the cause of much confusion (and "delusion").

Paul spelled it out, but most have not taken it fully to heart, but believed the "lie" taught by the "false teachers" spoken of by Peter. The greatly misunderstood passage regarding the difference between Israel and the Church among the gentiles, is "but each one in his own order" or time (1 Corinthians 15:20-23). In the original language "each one" is defined as "each individual person" (being saved in their own time--individually).

There's more if you want to get into it.

Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9 teaches who teaches who

 

[Anchorite]

Long ago, I encountered the two opposing heresies.

1. Christianity is only the gospels, the teachings of Jesus. Ignore the writings of Paul.

2. Paul’s writings are the only teachings for this dispensation. The gospels conclude the Old Testament.

 

[Dryhn]

Long ago, I encountered the two opposing heresies.

1. Christianity is only the gospels, the teachings of Jesus. Ignore the writings of Paul.

2. Paul’s writings are the only teachings for this dispensation. The gospels conclude the Old Testament.

Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12, Gal 2:2, Gal 2:7-9
Who do those verses teach is the Christ selected Apostle & Minister to Anchorite ? :)

 

[Anchorite]

Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12, Gal 2:2, Gal 2:7-9
Who do those verses teach is the Christ selected Apostle & Minister to Anchorite ? :)

None of these verses say that the 4 gospels belong to the Old Testament and we should pay attention only to the church epistles.

Nor do they say the gospel proclaimed to the gentiles was different from the gospel proclaimed to the Jews.



Acts 9:15

But the Lord said to Ananias, Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.


NOTE: Paul was a chosen instrument, but not the only chosen instrument. Paul was just one among many who spread the gospel to gentiles.

Peter preached to Cornelius, a Roman centurion of the Italian Regiment stationed in Caesarea.

Phillip preached to the Ethiopian eunuch.



Romans 11:13,14

I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry

in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.


NOTE: Paul was preaching to gentiles, but also to Jews.



Romans 15:16

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.


NOTE: This does not say that nobody else was ministering the gospel to gentiles.