Daring Death - a Sin?

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bbyrd009

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the clear meaning of the biblical text.
i just love this phrase. With all due respect, you might note that you declined to state a single absolute truth or doctrine from Scripture, yet we are all assured of "clear meaning of the Biblical text" by PhDs all the time lol.

i don't mean to say that this should be applied to you ok, but i would understand this phrase as a sign. It is a way to insist that your perspective is the right one, and that you will not be swayed even when the Scripture that seems to oppose the Scripture you are relying on is quoted for consideration. And of course the guy quoting the contrasting Scripture generally feels exactly the same way, right?

17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
 

bbyrd009

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Why did "God" allow Satan to take the lives of Job's children?
because the children are not literal children. Fwiw you can continue to believe that they are as long as you like, and still consider that they represent another concept that might serve you now, simply as a thought exercise. If it yields no fruit, toss it then.
 

OzSpen

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well, Gehenna is in earth, is not in Hades the abode of the dead, etc--a term Christ was aware of, and even used in other parables--so i guess the debate should center around when one might enter the kingdom.

Hades mythology has no concept of punishment after death, or "hell" like we understand that term, this came through Norse mythology i guess, the English translators having no better analogy to make. So to say that Christ had this in mind is pretty easily refuted by just asking a Jew what they think of our concept of "hell" even today.

Gehenna on earth is bbyrd009's unsupported opinion.

You say, 'Hades mythology has no concept of punishment after death, or "hell" like we understand that term'. Mate, don't you understand what mythology is and that Jesus used Hades as a symbol of what happens after death. Mark 9:47 (NLT) states, 'And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It's better to enter the Kingdom of God with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell [Hades].

Oz
 

OzSpen

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i just love this phrase. With all due respect, you might note that you declined to state a single absolute truth or doctrine from Scripture, yet we are all assured of "clear meaning of the Biblical text" by PhDs all the time lol.

i don't mean to say that this should be applied to you ok, but i would understand this phrase as a sign. It is a way to insist that your perspective is the right one, and that you will not be swayed even when the Scripture that seems to oppose the Scripture you are relying on is quoted for consideration. And of course the guy quoting the contrasting Scripture generally feels exactly the same way, right?

17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

You have used an Appeal to Mockery Logical Fallacy here. We cannot have a logical discussion when you engage in erroneous reasoning.

Bye, bye, :eek:
Oz
 

VictoryinJesus

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Not my opinion. All of this is from misunderstanding of God how could I possibly know what God said to her? I only know be cause it contradicts the whole of God in the scriptures


I am sorry Sword. But I am not seeing it. I see so many contradictions and verses used to serve man's lust and desire to hold onto this world. When we are instructed to do the opposite. For instance: "For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain. Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith." (Mark 13:14) I don't hear this as a command to gain more of this world for man's glory. I hear it as a prophetic word from Jesus Christ. Mount Sinai, that Holy unapproachable mountain where Moses received the Law, was lifted and cast into the sea (the gentiles). The mountain has already been moved. Not by you. Not by me. But by the Lord. "This is the LORD'S doing; It is marvelous in our eyes." Ps 118:23 Yes, faith moves mountains (kingdoms) but for the furtherance of the Lord.

"In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.
For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.
And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
And the Lord said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:

There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
And Moses went down from the mount unto the people, and sanctified the people; and they washed their clothes.
And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at your wives.
And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.
And the Lord said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish.
And let the priests also, which come near to the Lord, sanctify themselves, lest the Lord break forth upon them.
And Moses said unto the Lord, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it." (Exodus 19)
 

VictoryinJesus

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Why did "God" allow Satan to take the lives of Job's children?

I have thought the same thing. People are not possessions or cattle that can be replaced. And I don't believe for a second that is what God is implying in Job. If I may, I believe the lesson of Job's suffering is "the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave job twice as much as he had before." When we lose this world, God restores. Eternally. The promise of abundant life. Satan cannot take away life (in Christ).
 
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bbyrd009

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Gehenna on earth is bbyrd009's unsupported opinion.
ok, good luck with that one lol; i can show you Gehenna on a map.
Jesus used Hades as a symbol of what happens after death.
yes, exactly, and there is no concept of punishment after death in Hades mythology, not even considering that a Greek god is being invoked in order to get a spiritual principle across.
It's better to enter the Kingdom of God with only one eye
it's also better to recognize that the kingdom is either beside you or within you right now, and you are commanded to not be worrying about tomorrow anyway lol--a complete antithesis to the "Christian" idea of salvation today.

But hey, maybe Christ meant "life, more abundantly" tomorrow? :)
 

bbyrd009

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We cannot have a logical discussion when you engage in erroneous reasoning.
i am not trying to find God with logic at all though, i hope you understand; and you do not have to justify your beliefs to anyone. You can believe that the Kingdom is only maybe available to you after you die if you have checked off the correct ritual boxes all you like; it is not my business, and it is not me that will reap from that belief. By all means be worried for tomorrow if that suits you.

10 Whatever your hands find to do, do with all your strength, because there is no work, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.
12 No one knows where they go when they die
 

bbyrd009

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I have thought the same thing. People are not possessions or cattle that can be replaced. And I don't believe for a second that is what God is implying in Job. If I may, I believe the lesson of Job's suffering is "the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave job twice as much as he had before." When we lose this world, God restores. Eternally. The promise of abundant life. Satan cannot take away life (in Christ).
it might also be noted that--contrary to most Christians' understanding--Job had sinned, and even confessed, twice.
 

Job

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With no bells and jargon with no leading from the Holy Ghost...

So it is your belief that the healings come from you without the assistance of the Holy Spirit?
 

Sword

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Satan cannot take away life (in Christ).
satan came to steal kill and destroy so why you thinking he cannot take away life. That implys if its not satan then it must be God? Not scriptural.
 

Sword

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I am sorry Sword. But I am not seeing it. I see so many contradictions and verses used to serve man's lust and desire to hold onto this world. When we are instructed to do the opposite. For instance: "For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain. Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith." (Mark 13:14) I don't hear this as a command to gain more of this world for man's glory.

Why are you telling me this. Did I give you this impression? Who is trying to gain more. what are you talking about or who to. See in most discusions people bring all manner of nonsense to bring in confusion. If you are talking to me please explian your self a little better??????

Flee to the mountians what are you talking about?



I hear it as a prophetic word from Jesus Christ. Mount Sinai, that Holy unapproachable mountain where Moses received the Law, was lifted and cast into the sea (the gentiles). The mountain has already been moved. Not by you. Not by me. But by the Lord. "This is the LORD'S doing; It is marvelous in our eyes." Ps 118:23 Yes, faith moves mountains (kingdoms) but for the furtherance of the Lord.

It has got nothing to do with what you are hearing or wrote.
Its a crystel clear verse.

Mark 11:23. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Nothing to do with the law or moses or mount sinai the gentiles.
It says That whosover ......................Everyone any one you and me. Shall not doubt in his heart.
Whos heart mine or yours anyones except moses btw. Doesnt mention the Lord moving anything here. You said that. Its not in the verse. YOUare adding utter nonsense here. Sorry to say it, but thats what you are doing. We know for whos kingdom it is for. Your talking like its for me. Stop making accusations with out quoting me.



"In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.
For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.
And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:


WE have NOTHING to do with the OLD COVANANT. Do you not know this. Why are you teaching us as if we are. That is utter ignoerance of scripture.

Dont you know that those who teach like you are doing in totall ignorance of the truth/

James 3:1Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

Why do you persue this with zero fear?????????????????????????

No point me quoting your whole old covanant post. If you dont know why are you teaching???????????????
If you dont know ask. Its not about me or my attitude or how I talk or how sarcahstic I sound it about am I telling the truth or not. That is all you need from me. and that is all I want for and from you or anyone else for that matter.
 

VictoryinJesus

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satan came to steal kill and destroy so why you thinking he cannot take away life. That implys if its not satan then it must be God? Not scriptural.

Satan can use this world to kill the flesh but that is all satan can kill. And God uses the enemies attacks for the GOOD of those who love Him. Same as with Job.

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 10: 29 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
 
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Sword

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Satan can use this world to kill the flesh but that is all satan can kill. And God uses the enemies attacks for the GOOD of those who love Him. Same as with Job.

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 10: 29 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
You just said he hasnt got the power now your saying he can.

You are ignoring every thingI say. You never ever once said that I got anything right. You are just jumping from one thing to another.
You also do not answer my questions. Why do you think I or anyone would enjoy a one way conversation? Is anything I am saying penitrating you are is it all a waste of my time?
 

Job

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satan came to steal kill and destroy so why you thinking he cannot take away life. That implys if its not satan then it must be God?

This is one of those areas where the use of common sense comes into play. If Satan is able to kill at will, how many christians would be alive today? Think!!!

Not scriptural.

Actually it is. This verse from Matthew indicates God's total control.

Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will.

Job 14

5 Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
You have appointed his limits, so that he cannot pass.



Here Job states that our days are numbered. Limits have been set pertaining to our physical existence. Limits that Satan has no authority to alter. Again, if Satan had that authority, we'd all be dead.

o
 
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Sword

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So it is your belief that the healings come from you without the assistance of the Holy Spirit?
Holy Ghost doesnt heal anyone. Niether did Jesus. He gave the glory to the Father. Still looking for fault :)
 

Dcopymope

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This is one of those areas where the use of common sense comes into play. If Satan is able to kill at will, how many christians would be alive today? Think!!!



Actually it is. This verse from Matthew indicates God's total control.

Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will.

Job 14

5 Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
You have appointed his limits, so that he cannot pass.



Here Job states that our days are numbered. Limits have been set pertaining to our physical existence. Limits that Satan has no authority to alter. Again, if Satan had that authority, we'd all be dead.

o

How could someone possibly misconstrue the term "Satan came to kill, steal and destroy" to mean "Satan can use this world to kill the flesh at will"?

weirdness abound on this website. :confused:
 
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Sword

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This is one of those areas where the use of common sense comes into play. If Satan is able to kill at will, how many christians would be alive today? Think!!!

You try thinking for a change instead of continually looking for fault. I am trying to bring you back into the discussions. But I really want to ignore you again. I NEVER SAID SATAN CAN KILL ALL AT WILL. YOU SAID THAT.Try quoting me and stop misleding people if you misquote me one more time. I will never answer any more of your posts.




Actually it is. This verse from Matthew indicates God's total control.

Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will.
God is not even in control of our tougnes. We can say or do what we like always.




5 Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
You have appointed his limits, so that he cannot pass.
I am getting feed up telling this same thing over and over to unlistning ears. Of which you have two.
Job was not under any covanant and had. Pay attention only had an integrity towards God. He knew nothing about God Nothing. So any thoughts he had about God came from his understanding. He blaemd god for the fire from heaven. Did the fire come from heaven. NO IT NEVER IT CAME FROM satan. stop blaming God. You have no clue about Job and you are not alone. God never allowed satn to kill his children. satan had the ability as he was ruler of the earth and he offered it to Jesus. remember? stan took dominion off of Adam.


Here Job states that our days are numbered. Limits have been set pertaining to our physical existence. Limits that Satan has no authority to alter. Again, if Satan had that authority, we'd all be dead.

satan is very limited and most of what he does he does through willing partner. and some of them are mistaght Christians. espiecailly those who bring confusion and arguments to Gods word with no knowledge. And that would be most people in here. I dont debate in here on many things as I know nothing of them all. You are talking from ignorance and telling me to think.
 

Job

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Holy Ghost doesnt heal anyone. Niether did Jesus.

So Jesus never healed anyone. Are you familiar with the 4 Gospels? Here's a snippet from the Gospel Of Matthew. Should I put my trust in your words or should I put my trust in the Word of God? What do you think I should do?


Matthew 4
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.
24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.


.
 

bbyrd009

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How could someone possibly misconstrue the term "Satan came to kill, steal and destroy" to mean "Satan can use this world to kill the flesh at will"?

weirdness abound on this website. :confused:
hmm, i don't know, they strike me as synonymous enough in a sense, if someone is "in" the world. You can be as religious as you like, but if you are sitting on the fence you are prolly fair game i guess

Christ never healed anyone? o_O