What are we today?

[bbyrd009]

there is no such thing as a hidden gospel, Jesus stated plainly He spoke to the public in public with nothing hidden. those who think that they have the hidden gospel have issues.

imo i would not completely discount the "hidden gospel" concept, especially if you believe that all you must do to be saved is to call on the Name of the Lord in a church one day, and then you become able to judge whether other people are saved or not by how they talk about Jesus.

if one cannot see Christ being manifest in someone who prolly would not agree with Christian dogma, or for that matter does not even speak English (or their native tongue), then imo the gospel is hidden from them. God does not need people to go around backing strangers into corners and asking them if they know Jesus as Lord; God needs people to manifest Christ.

 

[Job]

then imo the gospel is hidden from them.

2 Corinthians 4
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

 

[DPMartin]

imo i would not completely discount the "hidden gospel" concept, especially if you believe that all you must do to be saved is to call on the Name of the Lord in a church one day, and then you become able to judge whether other people are saved or not by how they talk about Jesus.

if one cannot see Christ being manifest in someone who prolly would not agree with Christian dogma, or for that matter does not even speak English (or their native tongue), then imo the gospel is hidden from them. God does not need people to go around backing strangers into corners and asking them if they know Jesus as Lord; God needs people to manifest Christ.

interesting point, but God doesn't need people to manifest Christ, He's not in need of salvation, deliverance, or restoration to what was lost. and people don't manifest Christ at will, they don't have that power. the lost, need the Lord God to manifest His Presence in His people who walk with Him, to know and affirm that God is with us. and that is never hidden. (note when mercy is given, like healing, that is only by the Power of God is Glorified by the recipients, not hidden)

and it is up to the Lord God to whom He reveals such. but it takes some one who goes by God the Father's Judgement of what is good for them and not there own judgement of what is good for them. Jesus walked by the Father's Judgement of what was good for Him and that included the Cross. and to take up that cross is to forfeit that freedom we cherish so much to judge for our selves what is good for our selves. hence laying down this life and taking up that cross.

 

[pia]

That's why the Lord frowns on denominations. Each one is different and separate from the next. It's not supposed to be like that.

1 Corinthians 1
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.


That's not what we see when we look at today's church. People like to refer to today's church as the Body of Christ. I think it better resembles the "high places" mentioned in scripture.




I've never seen or heard God. I used to have dreams. I saw the Twin Towers go down in 1989. At the time I had no idea. It wasn't until I saw the first tower collapse...

o

Couldn't agree with you more on denominations.... Well in my opinion you were still in touch with the unseen realm, so you must be open to it on some level, whether you are aware of it or not. You don't have to see Him, to become aware of Him, or even to pick up on thoughts you know are not your own. We must never fear it, but only try to make sure we steer it the right way, which you must have. I have seen other things than just Him, but that was quite different. He has a 'hyper reality' to Him, that is the only way I can describe it, it wouldn't surprise me if you recall your dream somewhat like that? Also wisdom can most certainly be deposited through our acceptance of what God says. He does say by the way :" Blessed are they who have believed and not yet seen."........I can only imagine that the only way He could have reached me, was exactly the way He did it. Up till that time I knew next to nothing but had met a couple of Christians over the years but had always rejected what they said. Without Him doing what He did for me that first night, I would hate to think where I would be now? I truly believe He reaches whomsoever He wishes to reach, and if all a person needs to do, is believe, well that's great too. We need to learn how to love the way He loves, now that to me has always been the hardest thing for us humans to do... Thanks for your reply...........Pia

 

[pia]

so a person might be doing the right things for the wrong reasons then lol, i prolly spent half my life doing that. I am not trying to overcome to please God, at least not anymore. Usually. But i am still trying to overcome. Professing faith in Christ is not overcoming anything though, that i can see.

Whoa there, faith in Jesus overcomes more than you can possibly imagine, proclaiming without evidence or real belief ( without the mixture of doubt ) won't, but that's not what we are restricted to.

 

[pia]

i would argue that a person who has never even heard of Christ, nor His sacrifice, might still please God just fine. What demonstrates "faith in God's work?"

Accepting that Jesus is the way to the truth and the everlasting life, which cannot be obtained any other way, no matter how hard men try to make us immortal

 

[pia]

as a Spirit that we can either manifest into the world, or not, and recognize in others, or not, without any verbalization needed at all. When one begins seeking Christ--or in our lexicon "gets saved"--they do not suddenly no longer need to eat or sleep, right. Meaning that they are still going to have plenty of opportunity to serve their flesh, or the Spirit, every day, for the rest of their lives.

i read "one who is in Christ no longer sins" too, but imo this is bait for narcissists who believe they were "saved" at the altar, and are now "in Christ" 24/7, which for all i know some people attain, but that certainly does not describe me, and it sure doesn't describe King David, so imo the passage is being read wrong.

If you are in Christ in your next decision, you are not going to sin, and if you are serving yourself, you are going to sin, and if you have been led to believe that some altar works in the past have "saved" you irrevocably for all time, no matter what you do, then don't even bother reading this. "Faith" does not mean "believing really, really hard, no finger-crossies."

I do know where you are coming from. The question of sin, well did He do it or not ? Did Jesus really pay for it all or not.
Well obviously you wouldn't sit still for me to write all the answers I have been blessed to get being persistent over many many years, but perhaps this one thing will help.
Sin, as it was......a barrier between God and man through the law, ceased to have power over that separation, when Jesus, after satisfying all the claims of justice, was invited by God, to sit down at His right hand ( a resting position, as He had finished .) Now sin does not have that same power over people and God is free to lavish His Grace onto mankind, to who so ever will receive it. So by believing Jesus' sacrifice and thereby believing that God truly did send Him to save us. God is basically saying. OK I will accept you in My Son, because He made the way.
We humans just always try to make everything much harder than it actually is. I dunno? Any good to you?

 

[Job]

He has a 'hyper reality' to Him, that is the only way I can describe it, it wouldn't surprise me if you recall your dream somewhat like that?

I always know when I'm having one of those dreams. They're silent and short. About 10 seconds.

I had one of those dreams the night we invaded Iraq back in 2003. I was on a plateau overlooking a valley. Everything was the color of red clay. There were mountains in the distance. I was standing next to railroad tracks that ran along the edge of the plateau. There was a train coming. It looked like an old steam locomotive from the 1800s. Just as it was approaching, I noticed a small herd of pure white lambs off to my left. As the train raced by, the little herd opened and out strolled the blackest lamb I'd ever seen. It stood there looking up at me and I swear it was smiling. Just before the dream ended, I was somehow able to zoom in on the black lambs face. It had a single horn coming out of it's forehead. And then it was over.

It's weird that I can remember those dreams with such clarity but can't remember the dream I had last night.

k

 

[pia]

I always know when I'm having one of those dreams. They're silent and short. About 10 seconds.

I had one of those dreams the night we invaded Iraq back in 2003. I was on a plateau overlooking a valley. Everything was the color of red clay. There were mountains in the distance. I was standing next to railroad tracks that ran along the edge of the plateau. There was a train coming. It looked like an old steam locomotive from the 1800s. Just as it was approaching, I noticed a small herd of pure white lambs off to my left. As the train raced by, the little herd opened and out strolled the blackest lamb I'd ever seen. It stood there looking up at me and I swear it was smiling. Just before the dream ended, I was somehow able to zoom in on the black lambs face. It had a single horn coming out of it's forehead. And then it was over.

It's weird that I can remember those dreams with such clarity but can't remember the dream I had last night.

k

That's actually excellent. As well as Iraq 2003, it can easily also represent on top of that ( often He 'kills' more than one bird with one stone ) the time we are coming into. doesn't God say somewhere, that He will cause the young men to dream dreams, as well as the prophesying ? That's what I would imagine you have going, as you do seem to have rather a deep understanding of some things I have seen you write.
Must be sort of terrifying when you wake and know you can't really stop it ? How do you cope ?

 

[H. Richard]

No, I wasn't assuming anything. I was asking you something. OK, so you do not believe He is talking about the Gentiles there ( another kindly showed me the scripture ).... Do you not believe that we are IN CHRIST ?

***
Since you ask me that question you obviously have not read anything I write. I have a post about the "IN CHRIST DOCTRINE" under the title of "OUR ARK" on this forum.

OUR ARK: (the “in Christ” doctrine)

2 Cor 1:19-22
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-- by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-- was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you ""in Christ"" and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them.

Jesus Christ is OUR ARK, and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood, we who are placed ""in Christ,"" by God, are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.

I believe what Paul said when he penned the words ""in Christ."" I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God. It is an operation of the Holy Spirit (God).

This is how I see it. Is this how you see it? If it is not, then why?

Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are ""in Christ"" Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life ""in Christ"" Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
(NKJ)

It is not that we no longer live and sin in the flesh, it is that since we are in Christ we are walking in the Spirit (faith in Jesus’ work on the cross) and have no confidence in our flesh. Walking in the Spirit is the same as walking (having confidence) in the work of Christ on the cross.

Eph 1:10
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things ""in Christ,"" both which are in heaven and which are on earth-- ""in Him.""
(NKJ)

Notice that there are two places mentioned, heaven and earth. Jesus will be lord over both those in heaven and the earth.

When we are placed “in Christ” we are holy and without blame because He loves us and covers our sins of the flesh with His blood shed on the cross.

 

[bbyrd009]

interesting point, but God doesn't need people to manifest Christ

well then, i would ask you what the "nation" in

43 therefore the kingdom will be taken from you, and given to a nation that will manifest the fruit of it

is "manifesting" exactly; or what "pick up your cross, and follow Me" even means.

 

[bbyrd009]

people don't manifest Christ at will, they don't have that power.

yes, they do. Whenever you are serving someone in need without hope of gain, you are manifesting Christ imo

 

[Job]

doesn't God say somewhere, that He will cause the young men to dream dreams, as well as the prophesying ?

Joel 2
28 “And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.

k

 

[bbyrd009]

Whoa there, faith in Jesus overcomes more than you can possibly imagine, proclaiming without evidence or real belief ( without the mixture of doubt ) won't, but that's not what we are restricted to.

many will cry LordLord, and faith without works is dead, as our churches have already demonstrated i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

Accepting that Jesus is the way to the truth and the everlasting life,

what, like, verbally? with your mouth?

one cannot accept Christ with their mouths imo

 

[bbyrd009]

We humans just always try to make everything much harder than it actually is.

ya, nobody likes to contemplate that they were being selfish in a matter, and that they owe someone an apology. Much easier to claim that Jesus paid for all of our sins, so now we get a pass i guess.

 

[H. Richard]

What is the benefit your hidden gospel teaching. What truth can be found in your teachings that can't be found in the Word of God?

***
What I teach is from the word of God. I have given the scriptures that tell us that God did not set up just another failed religion of religious works to obtain salvation. I have shown, in the scriptures, where Paul said his gospel of grace had been hidden in God BUT NOW has been revealed. (notice the words BUT NOW). I have shown that Jesus did everything on the cross to obtain a person's salvation and that all that is necessary for salvation is to have faith in His work. But since I do this the religious jump on me just as they did those in the past.

What you are saying is that I teach my gospel when in realty that is a false accusation I teach Paul's gospel of grace and the religious just can't endure it. They reduce their teaching to the O.T. and the 4 gospels and claim we can only be saved if we earn it by works.

 

[Job]

What I teach is from the word of God.

Where in the Word of God does it state we are no longer sheep?

 

[H. Richard]

Where in the Word of God does it state we are no longer sheep?

***
Paul says we are "in Christ" so how can we be His sheep? Quit being nit-picky.

 

[Job]

***
Paul says we are "in Christ" so how can we be His sheep?

You really should have had that figured out before you started posting. You can't just make stuff up and claim it's from the Word of God. It's not only irresponsible handling of His Word, it's also a sin.

Quit being nit-picky.

A sign of a lazy disciple.

g