Under a curse

[mjrhealth]

so where is the "put down your cross" verse?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

How can one be carrying his cross when one has being raised up from death, That is what happens at teh cross, just as Jesus did. As I said before, I see no cross before me, neither do I carry teh burden of any cross, I only see Jesus going before me and Him alone I will follow.

Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[mjrhealth]

if belief is all that is necessary,

It is that simple, you see the "works" that you see in te hbible are not your own as Jesus put it,

Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Your will be done, never ours.

 

[pia]

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

How can one be carrying his cross when one has being raised up from death, That is what happens at teh cross, just as Jesus did. As I said before, I see no cross before me, neither do I carry teh burden of any cross, I only see Jesus going before me and Him alone I will follow.

Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The 'heavy' cross we bear, if any, I see as having to :" Love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength, and love others as you love yourself." What could be harder for a fallen human being ? But as you said, we ARE supposed to serve in newness of His Life, which is SUPPOSED to make it easier for us, to obey His commandment. But as I have found, without Him right by my side, or in front of me, I cannot love that way, so it's imperative that I stick to Him like glue....

 

[pia]

It is that simple, you see the "works" that you see in te hbible are not your own as Jesus put it,

Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Your will be done, never ours.

Hi, amen to that! Seem to also recall Jesus answering someone who asked :" What must we do, to do the works of God." and Jesus answered :" The work given to you, is to BELIEVE." to believe Him in all things..... So that He can perform them....

 

[bbyrd009]

This has all been covered in the word of God

yet wadr you do not even know what Word is yet

by His providence down through the ages. But if you cannot see clearly to embrace all that has been promised and now fulfilled, then you are not ready to say, "It is finished." You seem to be stuck in that time when salvation was just beginning, following those words that were only for those of that time. It is finished. For those who can receive it, the victory is already won. He has overcome the world and born every burden.

this i agree with. You no longer need to seek an eye for an eye, if you can just forgive.
But if you do not forgive, you are not forgiven. If you do not change your mind, all of the accepting Jesus with your mouth is pointless.

This telling people that they are saved after a public profession and some altar works, and that their journey is complete, is a bad thing to me. I experienced that in at least 5, prolly more like 10 churches, and never once heard a new seeker get told what rebound (repentance, to you) is even about. So how can they be seeing clearly to embrace what has been promised?

That was a salvation of pride, undertaken out of fear of hell, of belonging to a club deemed exclusive imo, where no humility is even required or sought, and one's allegiance may still be pledged to the State. And i guess no picking up of crosses and following is required. No minds need be changed.

I remember being all adrift, basically, after my profession experience, and i witnessed it in many others, too.
A million plus Jews left Egypt free men too; but only two of the original million made it to the Promised Land.

 

[bbyrd009]

Moreover, during these times following His victory and having sent His Holy Spirit, we are not to be living in the world at all.

i disagree there also, we are specifically told to be in the world.

 

[bbyrd009]

We are to be reigning with Christ as kings and princes.

he who wants to be king must be the servant of all

 

[bbyrd009]

it is not we who now live but Christ who lives in us.

at least that is what we tell ourselves, yes, in between denying that we are even the Body of Christ. If Christ lives in you, then you will be producing the fruit of Christ imo, and God is not going to be fooled too easy there. Fwiw i would be grabbing my tent and going back to the Wilderness lol

 

[bbyrd009]

He said it was supposed to be ' A Kingdom of Priests to The Lord' .

but you have not yet sweat any blood, etc, so i guess that depends upon how you hear that.

 

[bbyrd009]

How can one be carrying his cross when one has being raised up from death, That is what happens at teh cross, just as Jesus did. As I said before, I see no cross before me, neither do I carry teh burden of any cross, I only see Jesus going before me and Him alone I will follow.

ok, you can mix metaphors if you like, but imo you would have to explain why Christ commanded us to "pick up your cross and follow" in the first place then. Give it your best shot.

 

[pia]

but you have not yet sweat any blood, etc, so i guess that depends upon how you hear that.

I am sorry, I am not sure I understand your point ? Jesus said :" My sheep hears my voice." do you not believe this ? As far as the revelation on The Kingdom of Priests, it is for you to either receive or ask Him to confirm it to you. After He said that I realized it was a little silly for us to believe that there would be more than One King.....

 

[bbyrd009]

The work given to you, is to BELIEVE.

that "believe" is "pistis," or "faith," but if you accept that believing as satan believes will work for you, then by all means do it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus said :" My sheep hears my voice." do you not believe this ?

i beleive a lot of ppl are led to believe that a public profession automatically makes them one of Christ's sheep, and i see that picking up one's cross and following has already been reasoned away

 

[ScottA]

yet wadr you do not even know what Word is yet

this i agree with. You no longer need to seek an eye for an eye, if you can just forgive.
But if you do not forgive, you are not forgiven. If you do not change your mind, all of the accepting Jesus with your mouth is pointless.

This telling people that they are saved after a public profession and some altar works, and that their journey is complete, is a bad thing to me. I experienced that in at least 5, prolly more like 10 churches, and never once heard a new seeker get told what rebound (repentance, to you) is even about. So how can they be seeing clearly to embrace what has been promised?

That was a salvation of pride, undertaken out of fear of hell, of belonging to a club deemed exclusive imo, where no humility is even required or sought, and one's allegiance may still be pledged to the State. And i guess no picking up of crosses and following is required. No minds need be changed.

I remember being all adrift, basically, after my profession experience, and i witnessed it in many others, too.
A million plus Jews left Egypt free men too; but only two of the original million made it to the Promised Land.

I see that you have experience the wrong way, and I agree, many churches do a disservice. But that is not what I have been talking about. I have been talking about carrying things through, not just the confession and repentance, but the victory too. Not just the "repent", "take up your cross and follow me", but also, the "rise, let us be going" and "blessed is he that I find so doing when I come."

I am not suggesting half-measures, but the "fullness" of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

i disagree there also, we are specifically told to be in the world.

Show me.

And then tell me how that reconciles with "it is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me."

 

[ScottA]

he who wants to be king must be the servant of all

I'm not saying otherwise.

 

[ScottA]

at least that is what we tell ourselves, yes, in between denying that we are even the Body of Christ. If Christ lives in you, then you will be producing the fruit of Christ imo, and God is not going to be fooled too easy there. Fwiw i would be grabbing my tent and going back to the Wilderness lol

If we are "changed" then we do not tell ourselves, but have been told against indisputable truth. And if true, it is not we who hear and believe, but rather it is the new creation of God in us who receives the word unto Himself, and we are simply benefactors. That is the fullness of "following", that we are no longer our own to react in our own way as you have described.

 

[mjrhealth]

Give it your best shot.

And what cross may I ask are you going to caryy??

 

[Helen]

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:....
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."

I see here, that any 'works'...is to be added to our already secure salvation. For the reason here:- " For if these things ( the things adding to our faith) be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
This is all for the privilege of learning more about Him that our soul loves...not to keep our salvation intact or to appease a God that just may chuck us out if we don't perform right.

So, salvation is through grace alone...yet coming fully into our 'calling and election' takes a 100% commitment...which will cost us. It will cost us the comfort of our flesh-man. ( who wants his own way)
And, because of God great love...He sent the Comforter to do all this through us, as we yield to Him. That's how I read it all.
So when Jesus said " Abide in Me" He was giving us very good advice...abiding in Him as we yield makes thing go much smoother and less painfully.

" To him that overcometh will I *make a pillar in the temple of my God, and * he shall go no more out: and I will *write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and *I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I *give to eat of the hidden manna, and will *give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."//
As I see this, we can only overcome , the world, the flesh , and the devil "in and through Him" ...because He has already overcome, and sat down.
That is our "works".

John 6 28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." Present tense.

Praise God!!

 

[pia]

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:....
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."

I see here, that any 'works'...is to be added to our already secure salvation. For the reason here:- " For if these things ( the things adding to our faith) be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
This is all for the privilege of learning more about Him that our soul loves...not to keep our salvation intact or to appease a God that just may chuck us out if we don't perform right.

So, salvation is through grace alone...yet coming fully into our 'calling and election' takes a 100% commitment...which will cost us. It will cost us the comfort of our flesh-man. ( who wants his own way)
And, because of God great love...He sent the Comforter to do all this through us, as we yield to Him. That's how I read it all.
So when Jesus said " Abide in Me" He was giving us very good advice...abiding in Him as we yield makes thing go much smoother and less painfully.

" To him that overcometh will I *make a pillar in the temple of my God, and * he shall go no more out: and I will *write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and *I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I *give to eat of the hidden manna, and will *give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."//
As I see this, we can only overcome , the world, the flesh , and the devil "in and through Him" ...because He has already overcome, and sat down.
That is our "works".

John 6 28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." Present tense.

Praise God!!

Must have taken you a while to get all this. Thank you