Sola Scriptura - does this foundation make you a heretic

[KBCid]

"Credo Unum Deo" - twinc

Do you also;
Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternam peribit. ?

 

[GodsGrace]

This is based on Exodus 21:12-36;
This talks about personal injuries, starts with monetary payments and ends with monetary payments.
In the middle we see an eye for an eye.
This has to be considered figurative with a monetary payment applied.
Why?
Because no where in Jewish history is there any record that the Jews ever took this literally and actually took an eye for an eye.
Famous Jewish Rabbis discuss this in the Talmud with several explanations.

Then when we look at Matthew 5:38-42;, we see Jesus telling us not to seek an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth.
What does Jesus then say?
He says to give, give, give, and give more than what anyone asks for.
Why is giving part of an eye for an eye passage?
Because it was always about giving to pay for damages.
Jesus is saying give, no matter what the situation.

This is based on Exodus 21:12-36;
This talks about personal injuries, starts with monetary payments and ends with monetary payments.
In the middle we see an eye for an eye.
This has to be considered figurative with a monetary payment applied.
Why?
Because no where in Jewish history is there any record that the Jews ever took this literally and actually took an eye for an eye.
Famous Jewish Rabbis discuss this in the Talmud with several explanations.

Then when we look at Matthew 5:38-42;, we see Jesus telling us not to seek an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth.
What does Jesus then say?
He says to give, give, give, and give more than what anyone asks for.
Why is giving part of an eye for an eye passage?
Because it was always about giving to pay for damages.
Jesus is saying give, no matter what the situation.

Right.
Just want to add that Jesus also meant that we are not to be vengeful.
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.

This is one of the reasons I don't like capital punishment, but in some cases I could understand why it might be necessary.

(for instance if a prisoner kills a guard)

 

[GodsGrace]

You really dont get it do you stranger. Tell me God who is He. In the OT He killed little children, murdered mothers fathers and any one else who stood in His way. In the NT Jesus came to show the father, all He did was love, even when teh soldiers came to arrest Him, He told teh disciple to put away the swords and healed the ear of teh servant. So is God love or not teh OT says other wise, some even make teh bold statement that from the OT He is evil as well, so which is He.?? Even David God would not allow Him to build His temple because he had blood on His hands, rather funny thing for God to do when it was supposedly God setting men out to kill people . So what is teh truth.

The thing that irritates you as that I cannot and will not accept teh bible is teh word of God, because His words are life and teh bible has no life, it only points you to teh one who is life. At least Gods grace answered my question, seems teh bible is no idol in her life.

Could you understand the O.T. this way?:

God revealed Himself to the Hebrews.
From that time on, they attributed everything that happened to God.
Even what was not from God.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Word was God. So the term, "Word of God" would mean "God of God".

Sorry... It wasn't meant to be taken that seriously.

actually imo a good insight to the difference is maybe found in "...and the Word WAS God."

there is a sense in which Word that has been related through another man, not directly received, is no longer Word iow

 

[bbyrd009]

If you "love thy neighbour as thyself" wouldn't you think that helping your neighbor find the God of love the neighborly thing to do?

oh, depends what you mean by "helping" i guess; that usually translates to "proselytizing" now, right. Likely the "...You taught in our streets" that is condemned in Scripture by association imo, or iow how much do you appreciate JWs knocking on your door, like that. See, they are helping too, right

 

[amadeus]

Amen...well said....
...and, by the way the font you used in post makes it so much more easier to read. :)

Yes, I've now changed it to "Georgia" at size 5. I wish everyone else would at least make theirs larger. I know how to increase the size to read it but there are a lot of posts, that can be more trouble than it is worth.

 

[KBCid]

oh, depends what you mean by "helping" i guess; that usually translates to "proselytizing" now, right. Likely the "...You taught in our streets" that is condemned in Scripture by association imo, or iow how much do you appreciate JWs knocking on your door, like that. See, they are helping too, right

What would love mean by helping.
If we follow the examples given then we go to religious meeting places. In our time it would seem that online is the only "open" places where people can go.

 

[bbyrd009]

If we follow the examples given then we go to religious meeting places.

well, you might interpret them that way, yes. Others believe that they are reading "house church" though, and still others have a completely different interpretation. Iow Jesus went to synagogue, but He also called it a den of thieves. So iow He did not go there seeking knowledge

 

[bbyrd009]

In our time it would seem that online is the only "open" places where people can go.

hmm. In the world, i guess, ya.

 

[bbyrd009]

What would love mean by helping.
If we follow the examples given then we go to religious meeting places.

another valid reflection here might be what would the Good Samaritan consider "helping," and what might he think of the priest's "religious meeting place."

 

[KBCid]

Some / many sects of Christianity demand that anyone asserting that they are Christian must agree to specific creeds in order to truly be Christians.... creeds such as the Apostles creed;

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Can anyone point out the specific parts of this creed which cannot be found in scripture?

 

[amadeus]

What would love mean by helping.
If we follow the examples given then we go to religious meeting places. In our time it would seem that online is the only "open" places where people can go.

In an absolute sense even online is not so "open" as that. I am aware of physical places [not online] where anyone in attendance can get up and speak without permission from any scriptural subject. The usual limitation is that the person must be willing to be questioned if someone doubts what he has said. It sounds better than it really is because there are still flawed and fragile people in attendance. If everyone were already like Jesus or even really striving to be like him, it would be... could we say ideal?

 

[KBCid]

well, you might interpret them that way, yes. Others believe that they are reading "house church" though, and still others have a completely different interpretation. Iow Jesus went to synagogue, but He also called it a den of thieves. So iow He did not go there seeking knowledge

I interpret them as they were intended.

He Went To The Synagogue
The New Testament records more than 10 occasions on which the ministry of Jesus took place in the synagogue. The Gospels record that "Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues." Yet the Christian reader rarely ponders the significance of such an apparently common structure so central in Jesus' ministry. The synagogue provided a ready platform for the teaching of Jesus and later the apostle Paul. In that way, it proved to be a significant part of God's preparing exactly the right cultural practices for his Son's ministry. But more than that, Jesus, his disciples, and Paul (as well as most early Jewish followers of Jesus) went to the synagogue to worship....

....While all adult members of the community could belong to the synagogue, only adult males age 13 or older could be elders. A local caretaker (unfortunately sometimes called "ruler" in the English Bible), called the hazzan, was responsible for maintaining the building and organizing the prayer services (Mark 5:22, 35?36, 38; Luke 8:41-49, 13:14). The hazzan was sometimes the teacher of the synagogue school, especially in smaller villages. He would announce the coming Sabbath with blasts on the shofar (ram's horn). Although the hazzan was in charge of worship services, the prayer leader, readers, and even the one who delivered the short sermon could be any adult member of the community. All were recognized as being able to share the meaning of God's Word as God had taught them in their daily walk with him. In this way, the community encouraged even its youngest members to be active participants in its religious life...

....Jesus spent much time in synagogues (Matt. 4:23). He taught in them (Matt. 13:54), healed in them (Luke 4:33-35; Mark 3:1-5), and debated the interpretation of Torah in them (John 6:28-59). Clearly, he belonged to the community of the synagogue, because when he visited Nazareth, he was scheduled to read the Haphtarah (Luke 4:16-30) and may have read the Torah as well as he concludes with a provocative derashah. This is a remarkable example of God's preparation, as the passage Jesus read was exactly the passage that he used to explain his ministry....

...The early Christians continued to attend synagogues, though with a new interpretation of the Torah, now that Jesus had been revealed as Messiah (Acts 13:14).
The new community of Jesus was born out of the synagogue. Believers were to become assemblies, not single individuals seeking God alone. We address God as "our Father" because we are his assembly. We are one body because we are made that way through Jesus (1 Cor. 12:12-13). In our fractured, broken world, with all its self-preoccupation, the model of the synagogue, the picture of the community of God, presents an alluring message. We would do well to understand the synagogue of Galilee...
He Went To Synagogue

Iow Jesus went to synagogue, but He also called it a den of thieves. So iow He did not go there seeking knowledge

Did Christ call the synagogue a den of thieves?

Matt 31:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Neither Christ nor the apostles went to a synagogue to learn because they were going to teach. Where does a teacher teach? typically where people gather to learn.

 

[KBCid]

In an absolute sense even online is not so "open" as that. I am aware of physical places [not online] where anyone in attendance can get up and speak without permission from any scriptural subject. The usual limitation is that the person must be willing to be questioned if someone doubts what he has said. It sounds better than it really is because there are still flawed and fragile people in attendance. If everyone were already like Jesus or even really striving to be like him, it would be... could we say ideal?

I have not seen nor heard of places open to anyone that allows for the reading and discussion of scripture. Most churches have a specific agenda to teach only the "truths" that they deem truth by their pastors and everyone else can sit and listen and then make sure you make your deposit in the collection plate.

 

[mjrhealth]

How do the deaf hear God's words?

And how small is your God.... Do you not think God can reach teh blind and teh deaf..

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

With God even the physically blind can see and physically deaf can hear, while those who are fortunate enough nor to have those problems cannot.

Mar_8:18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

 

[mjrhealth]

The Holy spirit is not given to everyone who states they believe in him.

Only to those who believe...

 

[mjrhealth]

Could you understand the O.T. this way?:

God revealed Himself to the Hebrews.
From that time on, they attributed everything that happened to God.
Even what was not from God.

I am glad you can see as so many cannot,

God bless

 

[amadeus]

I have not seen nor heard of places open to anyone that allows for the reading and discussion of scripture. Most churches have a specific agenda to teach only the "truths" that they deem truth by their pastors and everyone else can sit and listen and then make sure you make your deposit in the collection plate.

They're not advertised much, and they may not always be as open as they sometime want to claim, but as I have said they are much closer than most. There is no central headquarters giving orders, so there definitely differences from one assembly to the next, however, some of them are quite good. On the other hand, some are quite the other direction. I hear a lot of good words spoken and I have a visited a few in the vicinity of northern Oklahoma, but they all over the country with more grouped closer together in the Ohio\Kentucky areas. You would have to try one for yourself. Send me a PM if interested.

 

[bbyrd009]

I interpret them as they were intended.

so you say, but in a sense now you are saying that you understand the mind of God, and anyone who interprets differently is wrong, yes?

 

[bbyrd009]

I have not seen nor heard of places open to anyone that allows for the reading and discussion of scripture.

but they exist nonetheless; Mennonite church allows discussion, etc, even in sermons, after the lecture, and there are many other places where "preaching" Scripture may not necessarily be welcome, but practicing It would be, so a change of perspective there can yield fruit...i guess Christian Science rooms are also open to that? although i haven't attended a CS service yet myself; guess i should prolly