Calling all Law Keepers.

[pia]

Agree and made it bold. Does this not speak to that which is our our hearts? We do because we love...we don't do because "God DEMANDS it" as someone keeps saying..with emphasis.

When I quoted yours, I lost all my quotes between...so it doesn't make much sense to me now.
But, I think maybe we are closer than it seems...I read some others of your posts which I 'liked' so maybe it was just the way i 'read' you , but probably did not understand. ( which is not hard for me to do!)
I just contend that yes, we live the principles of law because we fell in love...being "in Christ" we have kept the law. But when someone keeps hammering away saying how God requires us to keep the law...when Jesus already came and died a cruel death to do that for us...law is not a requirement , we see Paul beseeching..grace is amazing. God is a lover, not a domineering ogre ...Would I do anything to break God heart, no. Grace 'to me' give us a love choice...
Maybe ( obviously) I se it very differently to others.
I just got tired of sitting back and allowing such a wrong picture of God to be painted.
Thanks for the response.

HUGE AMEN.....

 

[GodsGrace]

Wow I think she Got it....

LOL

 

[tabletalk]

Sarcy asm that is a type of japenese food is it not....??

Why dont you tell us all how you keep teh law perfectly. please you seem to say you do it,,, cant be that hard..

GodsGrace said in post #109: "I don't believe ANYONE here says they are perfect. This would be nonsense. But the fact that we cannot be perfect should not be diminished to the point of saying that we shouldn't even try."

You said in post #115: "Actually I am not paying much attention to you at all, see I write in the hope that people will listen,.."

Conclusion: People, hopefully, will not listen to you, as you are "not paying much attention" to them and you prove it by accusing GodsGrace of keeping the law perfectly, when she has clearly stated "I don't believe ANYONE here says they are perfect".

 

[mjrhealth]

to them and you prove it by accusing GodsGrace of keeping the law perfectly, when she has clearly stated "I don't believe ANYONE here says they are perfect".

If one has a law they cannot keep, what is teh purpose of that law?? It served its purpose, it failed in it purpose, it serves no one but the sinners. As for people not listening, they usualy just put me on there ignore list. Not that it matters much.

She lays a stumbling block before others, if she wants to keep teh law, that she can do as can any one who desires, , wont gain her any browny points, and when they stand before Christ expecting to get let in, I hope they remember this.

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If one cannot be justified by teh law, than its all vanity.

 

[Helen]

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well what have you lost, cost me my family, you????

i find it hard to quantify myself, but may i ask how simply having faith in Christ--which after all should mostly manifest in you being a better person to others, right--could cost you your family?

 

[bbyrd009]

Just to add,

1Co_13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co_13:8 Charity never faileth

"Grace demands nothing?"

 

[bbyrd009]

Perfect intentions do not mean we are without guilt. All have and do fall short...with One exception, and it is only "in Him' that we are accepted as not falling short of what would otherwise be required under the law.

"Go, and Do likewise."

 

[Dcopymope]

i find it hard to quantify myself, but may i ask how simply having faith in Christ--which after all should mostly manifest in you being a better person to others, right--could cost you your family?

I know I haven't lost family. My entire family, extended included grew up in a church. I have lost "friends" though, if I can even call them that. It wasn't hard to lose them since they were unbelievers to begin with. That's what happens when unequally yoked with heathens.

 

[bbyrd009]

If one has a law they cannot keep, what is teh purpose of that law?? It served its purpose, it failed in it purpose, it serves no one but the sinners.

well, listen to yourself. "It served, but it failed," "the sinner who could not keep it was served," i mean c'mon mjr. Can i suggest that even when this law-breaker begins finally keeping this law, that is when the law has failed, see, because there is no law that says "hate yourself" or "die for your friends." So keeping the law perfectly, a la Job, is a fail, as the Book illustrates.

If one has a law they cannot keep, and they wish to remain under grace, they are required to confess their sin and rebound. And the law cannot be said to have failed in this scenario. Society is obviously served in this law-breaker realizing his sin. And we have a built in detector for hypocrisy, right, it is obvious if someone is struggling with an issue or has no intention of rebounding in the tone of their apology.

 

[bbyrd009]

I know I haven't lost family. My entire family, extended included grew up in a church. I have lost "friends" though, if I can even call them that. It wasn't hard to lose them since they were unbelievers to begin with. That's what happens when unequally yoked with heathens.

it's funny, i completely understand where you are coming from there, and at the same time i am in a season where i am being sent nothing but friends that we would both prolly judge "lost," and i can't help but feel that i am supposed to serve them, and i would now feel remiss if i lost one of them as a "friend."

 

[Dcopymope]

it's funny, i completely understand where you are coming from there, and at the same time i am in a season where i am being sent nothing but friends that we would both prolly judge "lost," and i can't help but feel that i am supposed to serve them, and i would now feel remiss if i lost one of them as a "friend."

So this is a all about what you feel you should do, or what the Lord tells you to do?

 

[bbyrd009]

So this is a all about what you feel you should do, or what the Lord tells you to do?

so replace the word "feel" with "think" then, or iow see that i meant "i am lately convicted that..."

also, see how the Q could be turned around on you, did you lose those friends because you felt that you should judge them for some reason, and not be encouraging them and a source of Good News, or because the Lord convicted you to ignore them when they no longer came around? Rhetorical Q, understand

 

[KBCid]

So here I just wish to ask in this Thread…not what you each believe, but for those of you who do believe that we are required by God to keep the law to tell us how you personally actually do that. Please tell us how it works for in your every day life?

Quite simple actually.
In the beginning when you hear about God and learn about them and the promises made you can decide to follow the way shown in scripture. This is where an unbeliever take their first step to become believers. Upon deciding to commit yourself to God's way you are to repent of the sins you have committed and accept / believe that Christ's blood will atone for those sins.
As part of your commitment (marked by baptism) to follow in Christ's example you will turn from what you know is sinful. In other words you will not of your own free will intentionally sin. This doesn't mean you will not still sin at this point but rather that it will be your intent not to. At some point in your commitment to follow Christ's example you will be given the Holy Spirit and the helper will assist you in the proper way to follow Christ's example.
Man cannot perform the intent of the two greatest commandments on their own because they cannot comprehend fully what the extent of right and wrong is in every case which is why the helper is given to assist one in following the will of the Father and thus, what was impossible through the old laws was made possible by the power of God working through the Spirit.
On top of all that you can ask for understanding about God from the historic record to get a better grip on what was meant from even before the beginning.

 

[KBCid]

<chuckle> You have heard it said, "as you have judged". May mercy triumph over judgment. I do accept the consequences. I have no issue with the consequences. You shall not hear me cry "Lord Lord".
We all know, to speed is to break the law. We all know, that there are consequences for such. If we are willing to speed, then we must accept those consequences. The alternative, is to not speed in the first place, then there are no consequences. Do we need "Jesus" to not speed? Do we need Jesus to pay our fine for speeding? No.
We need the blood of Jesus, to cover our past transgressions, when we did not know "God", when we lived in ignorance. To cover us from the destruction that is rightly ours. That, shall never change. Not for any of us.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

And thus the essence of Christ's message is seen again.
I do not know you Richard_oti but as one of Christ's sheep I hear his voice through you.

 

[Helen]

Quite simple actually.
In the beginning when you hear about God and learn about them and the promises made you can decide to follow the way shown in scripture. This is where an unbeliever take their first step to become believers. Upon deciding to commit yourself to God's way you are to repent of the sins you have committed and accept / believe that Christ's blood will atone for those sins.
As part of your commitment (marked by baptism) to follow in Christ's example you will turn from what you know is sinful. In other words you will not of your own free will intentionally sin. This doesn't mean you will not still sin at this point but rather that it will be your intent not to. At some point in your commitment to follow Christ's example you will be given the Holy Spirit and the helper will assist you in the proper way to follow Christ's example.
Man cannot perform the intent of the two greatest commandments on their own because they cannot comprehend fully what the extent of right and wrong is in every case which is why the helper is given to assist one in following the will of the Father and thus, what was impossible through the old laws was made possible by the power of God working through the Spirit.
On top of all that you can ask for understanding about God from the historic record to get a better grip on what was meant from even before the beginning.

Thank you for your clearly laid out post. I believe that you are saying that we in ourselves cannot keep even the two love commandments but we have the Helper to empower and enable us to choose the good and shun the evil..right? Therefore it is our choice as it were, but Him in us doing the work, right?
If I have read your post correctly and that is what you are saying..then we are in total agreement.
Thank you for writing, much appreciated.

 

[GodsGrace]

so replace the word "feel" with "think" then, or iow see that i meant "i am lately convicted that..."

also, see how the Q could be turned around on you, did you lose those friends because you felt that you should judge them for some reason, and not be encouraging them and a source of Good News, or because the Lord convicted you to ignore them when they no longer came around? Rhetorical Q, understand

bb
I'm sure we've all had some experience with this.
Some friends that are non-believers are ok to be with. We could even get a word in edge-wise every now and then and who knows what will grow...
But sometimes they're so far off that they drag you down with them.
So, yes, sometimes we do better to get away, and sometimes we do better to stay.
Depends...

 

[KBCid]

Thank you for your clearly laid out post. I believe that you are saying that we in ourselves cannot keep even the two love commandments but we have the Helper to empower and enable us to choose the good and shun the evil..right? Therefore it is our choice as it were, but Him in us doing the work, right? If I have read your post correctly and that is what you are saying..then we are in total agreement. Thank you for writing, much appreciated.

right. it is our choice to desire to be like Christ.
Let's be clear here. the power of the Holy spirit is not to do it all for us. We need to be actively striving to follow Christ's example from our own being.

God has made known that we are not supposed to kill via the OT and as an inclusion on the 2 greatest commandments so if prior to learning and committing to the Christ-ian way you used to kill people then going forward from the moment you made the commitment you will no longer kill by your own will.
This is a simple understanding on the path to following God's will so it should be easy to keep this by your own will without the Spirit having to tell you or remind you of it or take over your body to prevent it.
Here is a true example of what I am saying from the OT concerning intent and action and the Holy Spirit talking to Abimelech to help him;

Gen 20:3But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. 4But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? 5Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. 6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. 7Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

God can by his power prevent us from doing what is sinful and may in fact do that for us if it is our utmost desire to do what is right but, God will not counter what we are willingly determined to do so, if you look on a woman or man with lust and take no action to prevent it then it is entirely your will in opposition to God's.
I once had that very problem but I realized that I could do something to force the body to follow my desire / will. I stopped looking directly at women for a time and denied the fleshly desires of the body and after a while the spirit assisted my will to not have that fleshly desire creep in where I did not want it.
My will + the power of the HS to subdue the natural body = the ability to become more like Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

So this is a all about what you feel you should do, or what the Lord tells you to do?

Sometimes D, it IS what we "feel".

In our walk with God we don't really go by feelings but by what we know.
If we feel abandoned by God at times, we can KNOW we aren't even though we Feel that we are.

But we can use our feelings also. With our conscience for instance.
If our conscience is properly formed, it will give us a bad feeling when we go against what we know to be right.

Just to say that sometimes we can trust our feelings too...

My two cents.

 

[GodsGrace]

Quite simple actually.
In the beginning when you hear about God and learn about them and the promises made you can decide to follow the way shown in scripture. This is where an unbeliever take their first step to become believers. Upon deciding to commit yourself to God's way you are to repent of the sins you have committed and accept / believe that Christ's blood will atone for those sins.
As part of your commitment (marked by baptism) to follow in Christ's example you will turn from what you know is sinful. In other words you will not of your own free will intentionally sin. This doesn't mean you will not still sin at this point but rather that it will be your intent not to. At some point in your commitment to follow Christ's example you will be given the Holy Spirit and the helper will assist you in the proper way to follow Christ's example.
Man cannot perform the intent of the two greatest commandments on their own because they cannot comprehend fully what the extent of right and wrong is in every case which is why the helper is given to assist one in following the will of the Father and thus, what was impossible through the old laws was made possible by the power of God working through the Spirit.
On top of all that you can ask for understanding about God from the historic record to get a better grip on what was meant from even before the beginning.

Nice post KBC.
Well said.