"Hallowed be thy Name!" - WHAT name?

[theQuestion]

Never tell someone specially a Christian he is wrong!

If one CLAIMS to be a Christian- but REFUSES to accept what Jesus said, that one is not only WRONG, but is NOT a Christian.
Thus I use the term more and more are beginning to use: churchoid.
Not as insult, but as Accurate Description.

 

[theQuestion]

"Richard_oti: Would you care to explain what the correct pronunciation of YHVH actually is and support it?

Two vowels are unknown, yet they are supplied with the many names that have it as a PART- like Jeremi-YAH, Hedeki-YAH, etc.

 

[theQuestion]

If my use of "Jesus" bothers you, I shall refrain.

Why would it bother me?
It's his name in English- as Jehovah is God's- even tho that is NOT how it was pronounced originally.
That's just a little bit of hypocrisy on your part...

 

[Richard_oti]

another classic example of saying I got my bacon burnt, and now I got to eat it.

Is that what you've been attempting to say? <grin>

 

[Richard_oti]

Richard, Richard, no commentary need, put scripture on table. disprove what i have said by Scripture, not by personal opinion, which don't count.

Peace in Christ jesus.

You might want to take a look at the post that I replied unto. You said nothing to disprove. Nor, was there any Scripture on the table in the post of yours that I replied unto here. You concurred with three statements that I made, then you asked a question. I answered your question. Nothing further was required.

 

[Richard_oti]

Two vowels are unknown

Should there be two or three? YaHWeH : JeHoVaH

The nikud weren't added to the text until between the 7th through the 10th centuries CE. It was the work of the Masoretes. IMO, it was / is a good work. I have seen the accusations of the unlearned against the Masoretes, that they changed the meaning of the text in doing so. However, having investigated such claims, I have found no evidence thereof. The Yeshayahu scroll found amoung the DSS is invaluable in this regard.

You posted a picture of a fragment of the LXX in which Shemo (His name) was written. What name is written there? Can you make it out? Are there any nikud present?

In the days of Yeshua`, the pronunciation of haShem was not in question.

yet they are supplied with the many names that have it as a PART- like Jeremi-YAH, Hedeki-YAH, etc.

In the suffix position, it is from YH, YaH, H3050. The pronunciation and therefore the nikud, differ between the suffix and prefix positions. Thus the examples you give above, while well intended, actually do nothing to assist us in the correct pronunciation and therefore also the correct nikud with regard to Shemo.

 

[Richard_oti]

Why would it bother me?
It's his name in English- as Jehovah is God's- even tho that is NOT how it was pronounced originally.

Well at least you know and understand that is not the pronunciation.

That's just a little bit of hypocrisy on your part...

<chuckle> People complain no matter what I do. People attempt to point out such all the time. Personally, I don't care what people think about it. People have complained for many a long year, that I should dumb things down, that I should step it up, I have heard it all so many times from so many people that I truly don't care.

It is only those looking for cause that tend to say anything.

 

[Helen]

If one CLAIMS to be a Christian- but REFUSES to accept what Jesus said, that one is not only WRONG, but is NOT a Christian.
.

The day of separating the wheat from the tares is not here YET.
No one at all can say with any confidence what you say here...only GOD can see the hearts...however wrongly they may misunderstand the things of the Lord at the moment.

 

[pia]

@Richard_oti ...Hello here........thank you for that very informative post.....I am sadly not a person who has any knowledge of those other books or Greek or Latin... I have enough problems with getting my English correct lol , not being my first language.
I do very much agree that Jesus also came to show us the will of our father, but I do find it difficult to comprehend why some people argue over which name or which pronunciation is the right one, since He seems to be well aware when someones heart is reaching out for Him, 'calling' on Him......I guess it is just because we simply do not have all the truth yet in regard to the Spirit/spirit nor the spirit realm, so we're just not sure how it all works, and everyone seems so afraid of setting a foot wrong, they can become extremely unfruitful in their fears.
I do thank you for your kind remarks.... I too enjoy very much reading your posts.......Thank you !

 

[Richard_oti]

@Richard_oti ...Hello here........thank you for that very informative post.....I am sadly not a person who has any knowledge of those other books or Greek or Latin... I have enough problems with getting my English correct lol , not being my first language.
I do very much agree that Jesus also came to show us the will of our father, but I do find it difficult to comprehend why some people argue over which name or which pronunciation is the right one, since He seems to be well aware when someones heart is reaching out for Him, 'calling' on Him......I guess it is just because we simply do not have all the truth yet in regard to the Spirit/spirit nor the spirit realm, so we're just not sure how it all works, and everyone seems so afraid of setting a foot wrong, they can become extremely unfruitful in their fears.
I do thank you for your kind remarks.... I too enjoy very much reading your posts.......Thank you !

We are all at different places upon our respective paths. I once only really knew our Father as "God", that was it, just "God". I couldn't even comprehend "Abba". It was all completely foreign and beyond my ability to grasp any of it. So I started to seek "God", to come to know Him, to perhaps begin to understand or comprehend even a little.

Funny thing, He met me, right where I was. The first verse I ever memorized was:

Psalm 34:4 I sought the LORD, and He answered me; He delivered me from all my fears.

A friend of mine loaned me a study Bible, I had never heard of or even knew that such a thing existed. He loaned it to me on a Friday evening, that began the start of what I can only refer to as an odyssey. That Saturday evening, the words appeared to be floating across the pages as though they were drifting by upon living waters. I fell in love with His Word and with Him.

I came to know Him by various "names / titles" during my oddyssey of coming to know Him. Today, I know Him as Abba, I know Him as YHVH. I know Him as 'Elohay and 'Eloheynu as my 'Elohim and our 'Elohim.

In Exodus 3:13 Moses asked, when the people shall say to him, "What is his name?", how should he respond? And 'Elohim said unto Moses: Tell them 'ehyeh asher 'ehyeh, tell them 'ehyeh hath sent him.

'ehyeh asher 'ehyeh ... I shall be who I shall be ...

IOW: YHVH shall be who He shall be to each of us according to His good will, according to His purpose. And in a manner that should humble even the best of us, according to our understanding, our level of knowledge and according to where each of us may be upon the path.

I shall be who I shall be ... which most know as I AM that I AM. But I AM that I AM doesn't really reveal or do justice to the fullness of our loving Father.

Those who insist upon a given "name", that "this" is the only name, that use a certain "name" as a battering ram, they have yet to fully realize our Father.

But, that is my opinion. One which I stand behind.

 

[theQuestion]

Should there be two or three? YaHWeH : JeHoVaH

The nikud weren't added to the text until between the 7th through the 10th centuries CE. It was the work of the Masoretes. IMO, it was / is a good work. I have seen the accusations of the unlearned against the Masoretes, that they changed the meaning of the text in doing so. However, having investigated such claims, I have found no evidence thereof. The Yeshayahu scroll found amoung the DSS is invaluable in this regard.

You posted a picture of a fragment of the LXX in which Shemo (His name) was written. What name is written there? Can you make it out? Are there any nikud present?

In the days of Yeshua`, the pronunciation of haShem was not in question.

In the suffix position, it is from YH, YaH, H3050. The pronunciation and therefore the nikud, differ between the suffix and prefix positions. Thus the examples you give above, while well intended, actually do nothing to assist us in the correct pronunciation and therefore also the correct nikud with regard to Shemo.

I have no idea what Nikud means- unless its a typo for Naked.
Nor haDhem, nor Shemo.
It sure would be nice if you didn't mix languages.

 

[theQuestion]

And, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
THREE vowels?
Sure its nor 4 or 5?

 

[theQuestion]

The day of separating the wheat from the tares is not here YET.
No one at all can say with any confidence what you say here...only GOD can see the hearts...however wrongly they may misunderstand the things of the Lord at the moment.

So, you HONESTLY believe you can deny what Jesus said and teach the EXACT OPPOSITE- and be a "Christian"?
I guess you lapsed into churchese again, where ANY definition can be given to ANY word to prove the churches right.....

 

[theQuestion]

Well at least you know and understand that is not the pronunciation.




<chuckle> People complain no matter what I do. People attempt to point out such all the time. Personally, I don't care what people think about it. People have complained for many a long year, that I should dumb things down, that I should step it up, I have heard it all so many times from so many people that I truly don't care.

It is only those looking for cause that tend to say anything.

But you SHOULD on the rare occasion they are RIGHT!
Using your 'standards' for not honoring and using God's name because of how its pronounced in English, you would never use the name "Jesus" either...not any other biblical name....

 

[101G]

The nikud weren't added to the text until between the 7th through the 10th centuries CE. It was the work of the Masoretes. IMO,

Correct, it was the Masorete, (the Jews who translated the bible in German, and now our modern day English bible).

yes, it was a good work, but arbitrarily when they injected vowels into the tetragrammaton that "change" the word, it's form, and it's meaning, to a man made object of worship. and that type of worship is Idolatry, this is their error. errors can be correct, for to be human is to error. but when someone refuse to accept truth, and refuse to correction the error, they put the noose around their necks and get entangle in bondage.

 

[theQuestion]

Correct, it was the Masorete, (the Jews who translated the bible in German, and now our modern day English bible).

yes, it was a good work, but arbitrarily when they injected vowels into the tetragrammaton that "change" the word, it's form, and it's meaning, to a man made object of worship. and that type of worship is Idolatry, this is their error. errors can be correct, for to be human is to error. but when someone refuse to accept truth, and refuse to correction the error, they put the noose around their necks and get entangle in bondage.

New heights of the absurd.
Do the new "man-made" pronunciations of all the OTHER biblical names change their meanings?
And worshiping God is idolatry?

ONLY in CHURCHianity, the religion that doesn't believe it's own holy book...

 

[101G]

New heights of the absurd.
Do the new "man-made" pronunciations of all the OTHER biblical names change their meanings?
And worshiping God is idolatry?

ONLY in CHURCHianity, the religion that doesn't believe it's own holy book...

I believe in the Holy book, but I'm guided by the Holy Spirit. for I know that everything in the bible is TRULY STATED, but all, not everything is a statement of truth.... (smile). and yes, all of those man made names which do not convey the source of the true form of the Lord's name, are idolatry.

 

[theQuestion]

I believe in the Holy book, but I'm guided by the Holy Spirit. for I know that everything in the bible is TRULY STATED, but all, not everything is a statement of truth.... (smile). and yes, all of those man made names which do not convey the source of the true form of the Lord's name, are idolatry.

Well, 101g, nice as you are, what you teach belies the spirit is guiding you.
You never told me if you agreed with my littler parable~

Michael returns to a remote Pacific Island he had once visited decades ago,
to see friends he had once met there.
Upon landing, the natives run out, shouting "Mukkil, Mukkil!"

Was he honored- or offended- that they didn't pronounce his name correctly?

And, PS- the spirit HAS guided us to pronounce His name- rather than HIDE it as Churchianity and the Jews have.
Think he guided us to use the wrong vowels, assuming they mattered that much?

 

[101G]

Well, 101g, nice as you are, what you teach belies the spirit is guiding you.
You never told me if you agreed with my littler parable~

Michael returns to a remote Pacific Island he had once visited decades ago,
to see friends he had once met there.
Upon landing, the natives run out, shouting "Mukkil, Mukkil!"

Was he honored- or offended- that they didn't pronounce his name correctly?

And, PS- the spirit HAS guided us to pronounce His name- rather than HIDE it as Churchianity and the Jews have.
Think he guided us to use the wrong vowels, assuming they mattered that much?

#1. I'm not interested in man made parables.
#2. his PERSONAL name have never been hidden, just not given until he came in person to wear it. for the scripture is true, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". when did he speak?, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins".

it's not hard to understand "WHO" God is by name vs "WHAT" God is by name. that's where you fail at, and ERROR at.

 

[theQuestion]

#1. I'm not interested in man made parables.
#2. his PERSONAL name have never been hidden, just not given until he came in person to wear it. for the scripture is true, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". when did he speak?, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins".

it's not hard to understand "WHO" God is by name vs "WHAT" God is by name. that's where you fail at, and ERROR at.

Yes, anything that makes sense doesn't not interest you.
And "I am he" is NOT a name!
But, whatever,
The Level of gullibility church people show is just STAGGERING!