Dispensationalism is it Scriptural?

[bbyrd009]

Read the first verse of James - it wasn't written to you / gentile.

ah, i'm not a Gentile, sorry. But you don't have to read James if you don't want to, i guess
plenty of support for the concept elsewhere anyway, red-letter even

...the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

 

[DAH]

ah, i'm not a Gentile, sorry. But you don't have to read James if you don't want to, i guess
plenty of support for the concept elsewhere anyway, red-letter even

...the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Jesus wasn't talking to you either...He was talking to Jew's seeking and awaiting their King. I doubt you follow to a tee all the words in Red. He is my Lord, the head of the body - not my King. I am a co-heir, new creature - not a member of a Kingdom. My place is in heaven above, not in an earthly Kingdom. One day, in the dispensation of the fullness of times, both earthly an heavenly places will be brought together as one....Until then...

Today there is no Jew or Gentile - No works REQUIRED - A Free gift - or His death was in vein.

As long as you believe in the death, burial and resurrection - blood paid for sins in full, you're good to go. Good luck in your walk with God.

 

[bbyrd009]

work while it is day, i guess, huh

My place is in heaven above, not in an earthly Kingdom.

ah. when did "I came that you might have life, more abundantly" turn into "i can't wait to die, and go to heaven" do you think?

 

[DAH]

That's a rather glib summary - not an accurate representation either.

There are divisions - therefor they must be approached differently: divisions of the Law (covenants)/Grace (cross); Israel/One Body; Earth / Heaven; Prophecy/Mystery

The phrase “kingdom of heaven” is only found in the book of Matthew, though it is described all throughout the scriptures to Israel.

Luke uses the phrase “kingdom of God” the most. He uses it primarily to describe Israel’s promised kingdom, but sometimes in Acts referring to what Paul taught.

Paul uses the phrase “kingdom of God” eight times in his epistles and never once uses it to describe the earthly kingdom to Israel.

More Kingdoms …

There are more kingdom phrases than just “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God”. Paul uses the phrases “kingdom of his dear Son”, “kingdom of Christ”, and “heavenly kingdom” which are not found anywhere else in the Bible.

They are strictly Pauline because the main subject of the revelation given to Paul was not about the earthly kingdom discussed in Matthew or Luke. Neither was it about Israel and the fulfillment of their scriptures.

It was a mystery of Christ about those who would sit in heavenly places.

“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ” – Eph 3:4

In this mystery was defined a new creature called the Church, which is his body.

“And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.” – Eph 1:22-23

The Church and Kingdom are Different

The church is not a kingdom or a nation. Being seated in heavenly places is not the kingdom of heaven come to earth (Eph 2:6, Mat 6:10).

People will enter into the kingdom. This language is not used when talking about the Church.

The kingdom is a dominion; the Church is a body.

The kingdom is the subject of prophesy; the Church is not.

The kingdom will be on earth; the Church is forever in heaven.

The kingdom has gates, walls, and mansions. The Church is a spiritual union without the rudiments of the world (Col 2:10, 20).

Same Phrase, Different Meanings

The phrase “kingdom of God” is used by Matthew, Luke, and Paul.

In Matthew we learn the “kingdom of God” can refer to the physical, literal, earthly kingdom promised to Israel.

In Luke we learn it can also speak to the spiritual principles in that kingdom.

With Paul we learn it can also refer to the universal spiritual reign of God which includes all dominions and principalities.

What does this mean? That the same phrase, “kingdom of God” or “kingdom” can have different uses and different meanings, in different contexts.

For this reason, Paul says we have been translated into the kingdom of his dear Son placing the Church also under the universal dominion of Christ (Col 1:13-18). Being in Christ we are under God’s rule (1 Cor 10:3).

All Things in Christ

Everyone in Christ will be under God’s authority in his eternal reign according to Ephesians 1:10. Some will be on earth, some will be in heaven.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:” – Eph 1:10

The Church will be in heaven having nothing to do with the earth and the things to come here. The kingdom is never the same as the Church.

People struggle with the difference between the “kingdom of heaven” and the “kingdom of God” in the Bible. The answer is in the context of what was prophesied and what was a mystery. If you do not rightly divide, you will get it wrong.

It would be better to find the dividing line between prophecy and mystery than to force a separation between two kingdom phrases used in Jesus’ earthly ministry that may not be as clear as some dispensationalists would like.

 

[OzSpen]

What is missing here is the next step = Refuting the Rapture!!

ByGrace,

Why don't you provide an exposition of the Scriptures to refute the theology of the rapture?

Oz

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Kingdome of God is Jesus Christ work in you, all Christians and it's within your reach grasp who are born again, it started with when Jesus went to heaven, he is in the Kingdome of Heaven, if we do the will of him, then we are abiding in the Kingdom of Heaven, just as to us here on Earth are part of the Kingdom of God.
This Kingdom has started 2000 years ago but the works of Satan have always worked to undermine it.

Any mention of Jews is pathetic as there is no such thing, all are under Christ Jesus and they who are not are worthless.
Who is going to pop up, only the Devil him self and his Mob and they will bring about Hell on Earth, trampling Grace and replacing it with the Letter of the Law or worse.

If you have Jesus and his Grace what more could you want, nothing is going to better that on Earth ever.

 

[Stranger]

ByGrace,

Why don't you provide an exposition of the Scriptures to refute the theology of the rapture?

Oz

Which one? That of Enoch, or Elijah, or the Church?

Stranger

 

[charity]

Where are you going?
That sounds like a goodbye post.

It felt like it too, @ByGrace. but I am not going anywhere.

Love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

What is missing here is the next step = Refuting the Rapture!!

Hello @ByGrace,

'The Rapture' is a term that I don't like, for it is not a scriptural term, but is used to describe what is prophesied to take place in the future, in 1 Thessalonians 4:-

‘But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
.. concerning them which are asleep,
.... that ye sorrow not,
...... even as others which have no hope.
........ For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
.......... even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, (Gal. 1:11,12)
.. that we which are alive and remain
.... unto the coming of the Lord
...... shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven
.. with a shout,
... with the voice of the archangel,
...... and with the trump of God:
........ and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain
.. shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
.... to meet the Lord in the air:
...... and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.’
(1Thess. 4:13-18)

* This is not something I would contest, for it is written.

* What does need to be considered though is to what company this applies?
Clues are found in the text, in such words, as, 'a shout', 'the archangel,' and, 'the trump of God'. The words, 'a shout', brings to mind Psalm 47:5. 'The archangel' is Michael who stands for the People of Israel. 'The trump' of God brings to mind 1 Cor. 15:52, so this portion of scripture should be considered along with 1 Thessalonians 4.

* The other point to be considered in relation to the company to which 1 Thess. 4 applies, is that when 1 Thessalonians was written, the truth concerning, 'The Church of the One Body', 'The One New Man', was still, 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:9), it had not yet been revealed to Paul (Eph.3:3), and the door for the nation of Israel to repent was still open: their Lo-ammi condition had not yet been enforced. They were still in God's eyes, 'My People'. (Hosea 1:9) The indictment from Isaiah had not been finally uttered, (Acts 28:26-28)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Willie T]

Hello @ByGrace,

'The Rapture' is a term that I don't like, for it is not a scriptural term, but is used to describe what is prophesied to take place in the future, in 1 Thessalonians 4:-

‘But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
.. concerning them which are asleep,
.... that ye sorrow not,
...... even as others which have no hope.
........ For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
.......... even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, (Gal. 1:11,12)
.. that we which are alive and remain
.... unto the coming of the Lord
...... shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven
.. with a shout,
... with the voice of the archangel,
...... and with the trump of God:
........ and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain
.. shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
.... to meet the Lord in the air:
...... and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.’
(1Thess. 4:13-18)

* This is not something I would contest, for it is written.

* What does need to be considered though is to what company this applies?
Clues are found in the text, in such words, as, 'a shout', 'the archangel,' and, 'the trump of God'. The words, 'a shout', brings to mind Psalm 47:5. 'The archangel' is Michael who stands for the People of Israel. 'The trump' of God brings to mind 1 Cor. 15:52, so this portion of scripture should be considered along with 1 Thessalonians 4.

* The other point to be considered in relation to the company to which 1 Thess. 4 applies, is that when 1 Thessalonians was written, the truth concerning, 'The Church of the One Body', 'The One New Man', was still, 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:9), it had not yet been revealed to Paul (Eph.3:3), and the door for the nation of Israel to repent was still open: their Lo-ammi condition had not yet been enforced. They were still in God's eyes, 'My People'. (Hosea 1:9) The indictment from Isaiah had not been finally uttered, (Acts 28:26-28)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

What translation is that? I have never seen that particular word used before.

 

[Helen]

@Willie T

Prevent = was an old English word in some earlier AKJV meaning "going before".
John 20 the two disciples ran to the empty tomb...my first bible said " John prevented Peter..."

It means John out ran Peter and went in first.
These days "prevent" has been changed and the word no longer used.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's a rather glib summary - not an accurate representation either.

i only wish it weren't true, glib though it might be

 

[bbyrd009]

My place is in heaven above, not in an earthly Kingdom.

reflect upon the diff in "earthly kingdom" and "worldly kingdom" if you will pls

13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Church will be in heaven having nothing to do with the earth and the things to come here.

then why destroy those who destroy the earth? Why pray "on earth as it is in heaven?"

 

[bbyrd009]

3You have enlarged the nation

and increased its joy.e, f

The people have rejoiced before You

as they rejoice at harvest time

and as they rejoice when dividing spoils.g

4For You have shattered their oppressive yokeh

and the rod on their shoulders,

the staff of their oppressor,

just as You did on the day of Midian.i

5For the trampling boot of battle

and the bloodied garments of war

will be burned as fuel for the fire.

6For a child will be born for us,

a son will be given to us,j

and the government will be on His shoulders.k

He will be named

Wonderful Counselor,l Mighty God,m

Eternal Father,n Prince of Peace.o

7The dominion will be vast,

and its prosperity will never end.p

He will reign on the throne of David

and over his kingdom,

to establish and sustain it

with justice and righteousness from now on and forever.

The zeal of the LORD of •Hosts will accomplish this.q

sure sounds like earth to me bro
but best of luck in your quest to go to heaven, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

ByGrace,

Why don't you provide an exposition of the Scriptures to refute the theology of the rapture?

Oz

if you can't hear Ezekiel @ "pillows" and "soft landings, or "miracles are for lost people," then you will not hear her either i guess

 

[charity]

then why destroy those who destroy the earth? Why pray "on earth as it is in heaven?"

Hello @bbyrd009,

The new heaven and the new earth will be inhabited, by the 'callings' assigned to them.

- Redeemed Israel will inhabit the new earth.
- The New Jerusalem, the Holy City, called 'The Bride', will come down out of heaven to the New earth, and will be inhabited by those who had like faith as that of Abraham, who looked for a city whose builder and maker is God. The believing remnant of Israel, and the Overcomers of Revelation.
- Heavenly Places will be inhabited by the members of the Church of the One Body, the One New Man of Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't know how the event of 1 Thessalonians 4 became known as 'the rapture', but it is.

reflect upon the Roman cult of Sol Invictus, that was folded into Christianity by edict, and there you go! It is not even a secret, see

 

[bbyrd009]

Hello @bbyrd009,

The new heaven and the new earth will be inhabited, by the 'callings' assigned to them.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

sorry, i don't know what that means, or how that refutes that you belong on earth, and the only one who ever "goes to heaven" is He Who came down from it.

 

[charity]

sorry, i don't know what that means, or how that refutes that you belong on earth, and the only one who ever "goes to heaven" is He Who came down from it.

‘And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but He that came down from heaven,
even the Son of Man which is in heaven.’
(John 3:13)

Hello @bbyrd009 ,

- It wasn't intended to refute anything.
- The verse you quote from John, does not say that Christ is the only one who will ever go into heaven. He is the only one who has done so, but the blessings of the Church of the One Body are to be fully enjoyed in heavenly places in Christ Jesus according to Ephesians chapter rwo.

‘And hath raised us up together,
and made us sit together
in heavenly places
in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come He might shew
the exceeding riches of His grace
in His kindness toward us
through Christ Jesus.’
(Eph 2:6-7)

In Christ Jesus
Chris