Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

Rom 10:9 and 1 Cor 15:16-19 is about the resurrection of Christ and about salvation, not sanctification. Stumbling and getting back up is about sanctification.

Now try to follow me here. Those who believe and have given their life to Jesus Christ are no longer in their sins. Their sins have been paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ. Even those who have died in the past are still in Christ, they are no longer "lost".

You keep mixing grace with works and salvation with sanctification. Are you able to make the connection sparky?

No - Rom. 10:9 is about Initial Salvation. It says absolutely NOTHING about it being a "permanent" condition.

1 Cor. 15:16-19 is about those who who have fallen asleep (died) IN Christ. these are people who endured in faith until the end.

BOL, who are the sheep and who are the wolves? Do you believe this is referring to believers vs nonbelievers?

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

As I stated before - verses 15 - 20 are about false prophets because it uses the term "False prophets". Verses 21-23, however, uses the word "EVERYONE" - referring to ALL disciples.
there is a definite distinction here.

Being baptized in H20 is like sacrificing goats for sin. H20 won't save you anymore than goat sacrifice will. It's only by believing and confessing in the blood of Christ in which you are eternally secure. Christ blood, not goat's blood. Spiritual water, not H20 BOL. God bless

Sorry but Scripture disagrees with you.

Water Baptism is an OUTWARD sign of an INWARD reality (Rom. 2:29, Col. 2:12-17).
If you are NOT baptized with Water - then you're NOT Baptized (John 3:5).

 

[Heb 13:8]

No - Rom. 10:9 is about Initial Salvation. It says absolutely NOTHING about it being a "permanent" condition.

1 Cor 15:16-19 is about those who who have fallen asleep (died) IN Christ. these are people who endured in faith until the end.

BOL, these two scriptures work off each other. They are both referring to the resurrection of Christ. 1 Cor 15:12-19 is about believers who are alive and those that are dead.

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

As I stated before - verses 15 - 20 are about false prophets because it uses the term "False prophets". - referring to ALL disciples.there is a definite distinction here.Sorry but Scripture disagrees with you.

And why do you think they are false. Does it have to do with being a wolf? Again, the word disciple is nowhere in the text.

pseudoprophétés: a false prophet
Original Word: ψευδοπροφήτης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: pseudoprophétés
Phonetic Spelling: (psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace)
Short Definition: a false prophet
Definition: a false prophet; one who in God's name teaches what is false.
HELPS Word-studies

5578 pseudoprophḗtēs (from 5571 /pseudḗs, "false" and 4396 /prophḗtēs, "a prophet") – properly, a false prophet; someone pretending to speak the word of the Lord (prophesy) but in fact is phony (an imposter), acting as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Verses 21-23, however, uses the word "EVERYONE"

No, the Greek says "not everyone".

Water Baptism is an OUTWARD sign of an INWARD reality (Rom. 2:29, Col. 2:12-17).
If you are NOT baptized with Water - then you're NOT Baptized (John 3:5).

Jhn 3:5 is referring to spiritual water.
Rom 2:29 is referring to belief in the heart, not H2O.
Col 2:12-17 is about Holy Spirit baptism, not H2O.

God bless.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, these two scriptures work off each other. They are both referring to the resurrection of Christ. 1 Cor 15:12-19 is about believers who are alive and those that are dead.

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

This thread is about OSAS. the verses you sited say NOTHING about initial salvation being a permanent condition. The dozen or so verses I have repeatedly posted DO warn that this condition CAN change.

And why do you think they are false. Does it have to do with being a wolf? Again, the word disciple is nowhere in the text.

pseudoprophétés: a false prophet
Original Word: ψευδοπροφήτης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: pseudoprophétés
Phonetic Spelling: (psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace)
Short Definition: a false prophet
Definition: a false prophet; one who in God's name teaches what is false.
HELPS Word-studies

5578 pseudoprophḗtēs (from 5571 /pseudḗs, "false" and 4396 /prophḗtēs, "a prophet") – properly, a false prophet; someone pretending to speak the word of the Lord (prophesy) but in fact is phony (an imposter), acting as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

You fail to understand because you refuse to read my posts.

I already told you that verses 15-20 actually SAY the words "False Prophets".
Verses 21-23, however, refer to "EVERYONE" - and not just false prophets.

No, the Greek says "not everyone".

It is STILL referring to EVERYONE and NOT just false prophets.
You can't be this dense . . .

Jhn 3:5 is referring to spiritual water.
Rom 2:29 is referring to belief in the heart, not H2O.
Col 2:12-17 is about Holy Spirit baptism, not H2O.
God bless.

That is the tragedy of Protestantism - so many different doctrines - yet you ALL claim to have the "truth". MANY Protestants I have debated, including MANY on this forum claim that the "Water" Jesus spoke of here was the amniotic fluid in the womb.

For 1500 years of Christian Church history, John 3:5 was translated as actual water (H2O).
After the 16th century, it was up for grabs. and YOU'RE simply breaking off into another splinter . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

This thread is about OSAS. the verses you sited say NOTHING about initial salvation being a permanent condition. The dozen or so verses I have repeatedly posted DO warn that this condition CAN change.

Is it permanent for those who's sins have been paid for or even the dead in their graves . Eternal security is based on if Christ has been raised or not, and you call me dense.

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

I already told you that verses 15-20 actually SAY the words "False Prophets".
Verses 21-23, however, refer to "EVERYONE".

BOL, scripture says, "not everyone", meaning God was describing two different types of people (sheep/wolves) (believers/nonbelievers). Matt 7:15-23 are not separate verses. "False prophet" is in verse 15, and "disciple" is no where to be found in these verses. Who are they???

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

yet you ALL claim to have the "truth".

And let's all thank the Lord that the testimony of believers isn't based on BOL believing us.

claim that the "Water" Jesus spoke of here was the amniotic fluid in the womb.

The spiritual water I'm referring to comes straight from heaven BOL. Where do you think the anointing comes from? Where does the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ dwell right now?

1 Jo 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

1 Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

chrisma: an anointing, unction
Original Word: χρίσμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: chrisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khris'-mah)
Short Definition: an anointing
Definition: an anointing.
HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 5545 xrísma (from 5548 /xríō, "anoint with oil") – anointing, referring to the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit, guiding the receptive believer into fullness of God's preferred-will (see 2307 /thélēma). See 5548 (xrio).

[This anointing functions through faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. God inwardly persuading the believer of His preferences (cf. also Hab 2:1-4; 1 Jn 5:4).

 

[Heb 13:8]

131 pages!! Filled with what?

'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that Meredith not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babbling: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. ... ... and overthrow the faith of some' (2 Timothy 2:15,16 &18b)

'Nevertheless the foundation of God standard sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.' (2 Timothy 2:18a)

Says the one who has an avatar on a man made forum? God ble s

Lev 26:1 "'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

 

[charity]

Says the one who has an avatar on a man made forum? God ble s

Lev 26:1 "'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

'Jesus Christ
the same yesterday,
and to day,
and for ever. '
(Heb 13:8)
Praise God!

Hello @Heb13:8,

I don't really understand, but I thank you for it. Hypocrisy is a dreadful fault, and I think I may have fallen foul of it. However, it is the subject of the thread which is the problem for me, for assurance is vital for a believer, and it can be shaken by a thread like this, I believe.

‘That their hearts might be comforted,
being knit together in love,
and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding,
to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
In Whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit,
joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him:
Rooted and built up in Him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught,
abounding therein with thanksgiving.’
(Col 2:2-7)

I have deleted the offending post now.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Chris

 

[charity]

‘For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him, Which is the head of all principality and power:’
(Col 2:9)-10

Hello again,

When I fully understood the surety of our standing before God in Christ Jesus, and rested on the solid ground of God's promises, in Him: it brought such peace; and I value it very much, and am grateful to God for His wondrous grace.

Ephesians chapter one tells us just what God has achieved in and through His Beloved Son, for us: and that great love and acceptance, on the basis of the all sufficient sacrifice of Christ is absolute and sure.

We have to take these truths and believe what God has said, and rejoice in the Rock upon which we stand. There is no shifting sand beneath out feet, in Christ.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is it permanent for those who's sins have been paid for or even the dead in their graves . Eternal security is based on if Christ has been raised or not, and you call me dense.

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

Ummmm - EVERYBODY'S sins have been paid for. This is Redemption.
NOT everybody's sins have been forgiven. That takes our cooperation.

NOWHERE doe the Bible tell us - nor does it even IMPLY that once we are born again, we cannot lose our secure position.
As I have presented DOZENS of times now - the Bible warns us that just the opposite is true.

BOL, scripture says, "not everyone", meaning God was describing two different types of people (sheep/wolves) (believers/nonbelievers). Matt 7:15-23 are not separate verses. "False prophet" is in verse 15, and "disciple" is no where to be found in these verses. Who are they???

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

"Not everyone" in Matt. 7:21 is referring to EVERYONE.
It's not that difficult to understand - unless you're trying to spin it the way YOU are . . .

And let's all thank the Lord that the testimony of believers isn't based on BOL believing us.

Sooooo, how do YOU reconcile truth??

If YOU teach something thing to be true based on the "revelation" of the Holy Spirit - and a guy from another sect down the road preached the exact opposit" based on HIS "revelation" - WHO is right??

Here is a short list of polar OPPOSITE teachings in Protestantism.
WHO is right and WHO is wrong??

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on . . .

The spiritual water I'm referring to comes straight from heaven BOL. Where do you think the anointing comes from? Where does the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ dwell right now?

1 Jo 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

1 Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

chrisma: an anointing, unction
Original Word: χρίσμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: chrisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khris'-mah)
Short Definition: an anointing
Definition: an anointing.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5545 xrísma (from 5548 /xríō, "anoint with oil") – anointing, referring to the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit, guiding the receptive believer into fullness of God's preferred-will (see 2307 /thélēma). See 5548 (xrio).
[This anointing functions through faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. God inwardly persuading the believer of His preferences (cf. also Hab 2:1-4; 1 Jn 5:4).

WRONG.
Baptism and anointing are NOT the same thing.

Baptism involves WATER.
Anointing involves OIL. "AnOINT" - this is where we get the word "ointment".

a·noint
əˈnoint/
verb

1. smear or rub with oil, typically as part of a religious ceremony.
   "high priests were anointed with OIL"
   synonyms: consecrate, bless, ordain;
   formalhallow
   "he was anointed and crowned"
   • smear or rub something with (any other substance).
     "Cuna Indians anoint the tips of their arrows with poison"
   • ceremonially confer divine or holy office upon (a priest or monarch) by smearing or rubbing with OIL.
     "the Lord has anointed me to preach to the poor"
     synonyms: consecrate, bless, ordain;
     formalhallow
     "he was anointed and crowned"

EVERY Biblical reference about anointing refers to the use of OIL.
Even where it refers to "smearing" or "rubbing" another substance - it NEVER refers to immersion.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Ummmm - EVERYBODY'S sins have been paid for. This is Redemption.
NOT everybody's sins have been forgiven. That takes our cooperation.

Everybody's sins have been paid for, but not everyone will believe. God forgave us at the cross BOL. Now it's up to us to accept the free gift.

NOWHERE doe the Bible tell us - nor does it even IMPLY that once we are born again, we cannot lose our secure position.
As I have presented DOZENS of times now - the Bible warns us that just the opposite is true.

Falling from your position is not losing salvation. You don't get saved, then unsaved, then saved, then unsaved, then saved again etc...

"Not everyone" in Matt. 7:21 is referring to EVERYONE.
It's not that difficult to understand

No BOL, he's making a comparison between sheep and wolves. Sheep and wolves are in Matt 7:15.

unless you're trying to spin it the way YOU are . . .

I'm not the one adding the word "disciple" in the text. You are.

Sooooo, how do YOU reconcile truth??

If YOU teach something thing to be true based on the "revelation" of the Holy Spirit - and a guy from another sect down the road preached the exact opposit" based on HIS "revelation" - WHO is right??

The one that believes in the finished work of the cross and preaches Grace salvation is right.

Baptism and anointing are NO T the same thing.Baptism involves WATER.Anointing involves OIL. "AnOINT" - this is where we get the word "ointment".

Holy Spirit baptism comes from heaven BOL. It's only through belief in the resurrection in which you will have the indwelling Holy Spirit. God bless.

Matt 25:3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil (elaion) with them.

elaion : olive oil
Original Word: ἔλαιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: elaion
Phonetic Spelling: (el'-ah-yon)
Short Definition: olive oil
Definition: olive oil, oil.
HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 1637 élaion – olive oil (from 1636 /elaía, "olive tree"); (figuratively) the indwelling (empowering) of the Holy Spirit.

While all true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, none can give their oil to someone else (see Mt 25:3-8)! Each person must seek (find) the Lord for themself.

 

[bbyrd009]

um, not sure quite what you mean there, so i'll say that i believed in santa claus with my faith, too
not that i am trying to diss faith or anything ok
but we are highly suggestible, let's say

or, i believed that souls were going to be tossed into an actual Lake of Fire in a literal judgement/court scenario after...what, after what, after every human being living on the planet died, in some single, Mass Judgement Event? something like that. i believed that for years ok, lotsa years, and it was only slowly and with much difficulty that i came to see the Revelation of Christ in a different frame, "In Us."

so for now what i would say is maybe test any prognostications about some future scenario after we have all dies against other Scripture, for me "we do not yet know what we will become" is usually violated immediately, right, and the dead know nothing is ignored, Samuel advising King Saul via the Witch of Endor is ignored, Gehenna is (time-)warped, and Sheol is twisted, etc.

all to rush to Paul's "absent from the body is present with the Lord," right, i mean you could easily spend the rest of the day reading ordained pastors tell you how Paul said "absent from the body is present with the Lord" lol.

"En-dor is a village in the territory of either Issachar or Asher but belonging to Manasseh (Joshua 17:11, spelled עין־דר). It's close to its semi-namesake Dor, but also to the river Kishon (Psalm 83:10, spelled עין־דאר). En-dor is most famously remembered for being the home of the witch of En-dor, who was consulted by king Saul and who managed to bring the late prophet Samuel "up from the earth" (1 Samuel 28:7-13, spelled עין דור)..." The amazing name En-dor: meaning and etymology

oops, huh?

13But the king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see? ”

“I see a spirit form n coming up out of the earth,” the woman answered.

the truth is in plain sight, i guess, but who can see it?

 

[bbyrd009]

Everybody's sins have been paid for, but not everyone will believe. God forgave us at the cross BOL. Now it's up to us to accept the free gift.

pick up your cross and follow Me is the gift though i guess

 

[BreadOfLife]

Everybody's sins have been paid for, but not everyone will believe. God forgave us at the cross BOL. Now it's up to us to accept the free gift.

Uhhh, that's exactly what I said.
Our cooperation is necessary for the forgiveness of sins and our salvation.

Falling from your position is not losing salvation. You don't get saved, then unsaved, then saved, then unsaved, then saved again etc...

HUH??
What is our "secure position" then??

No BOL, he's making a comparison between sheep and wolves. Sheep and wolves are in Matt 7:15.

Matt. 7:15-20 is CLEARLY about false PROPHETS - it even says so.
Verses 21-23 are about false DISCIPLES because it refers to "EVERYONE" - not just false prophets.

I'm not the one adding the word "disciple" in the text. You are.

Disciple simply means follower. We are followers (disciples) of Christ.
Some are true disciples and some are false . . .

The one that believes in the finished work of the cross and preaches Grace salvation is right.

Sooooo, the ones who believe in homosexual union are right??
The ones who believe in abortion are right??
The ones who believe that God created MOST people just to toss into Hell are right??

They ALL claim to believe in the finished work of Christ - but their beliefs are diametrically opposed to each other. It is utter hypocrisy for YOU to claim that ALL of them are "right".

Holy Spirit baptism comes from heaven BOL. It's only through belief in the resurrection in which you will have the indwelling Holy Spirit. God bless.

No - Holy Spirit Baptism comes from BAPTISM.
That's when you are BORN AGAIN:
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of WATER AND SPIRIT.

Matt 25:3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil (elaion) with them.
elaion : olive oil
Original Word: ἔλαιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: elaion
Phonetic Spelling: (el'-ah-yon)
Short Definition: olive oil
Definition: olive oil, oil.
HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 1637 élaion – olive oil (from 1636 /elaía, "olive tree"); (figuratively) the indwelling (empowering) of the Holy Spirit.

While all true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, none can give their oil to someone else (see Mt 25:3-8)! Each person must seek (find) the Lord for themself.

And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with what we were talking about . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

pick up your cross and follow Me is the gift though i guess

no that's sanctification. bbyr

Uhhh, that's exactly what I said. Our cooperation is necessary for the forgiveness of sins and our salvation.

Uhhh, no. It's only redemption for those who believe and confess. The cooperation is believing and confessing in Rom 10:9. You're trying to add more to what was accomplished at the cross. We are forgiven at the cross when we believe and confess.

"Ummmm - EVERYBODY'S sins have been paid for. This is Redemption. NOT everybody's sins have been forgiven. That takes our cooperation." - BOL

HUH?? What is our "secure position" then??

Grace and knowledge, 2 Pet 3:18. We can fall from our firmness or steadfastness, but never salvation.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - fall from your own steadfastness; which was proper to them, and which, by the grace of God, they had, and retained, both in the faith of Christ and doctrine of the Gospel; for though the saints can never finally and totally fall into sin, or from the truth, yet they may fall from their steadfastness, both as to the exercise of the grace of faith, and as to their profession of the doctrine of faith; and to be fluctuating, hesitating, and doubting in either respect, must be very uncomfortable and dishonourable.

Matt. 7:15-20 is CLEARLY about false PROPHETS - it even says so.

Right BOL, they are about false prophets. They are false as in not true believers.

Verses 21-23 are about false DISCIPLES because it refers to "EVERYONE" - not just false prophets.

Scripture says, "not everyone" meaning he is comparing sheep and wolves because there were many Judas types and Pharisees walking around back then and even today. It seems like you're having a hard time with this so I copied the definition of the word "not".

ou, ouk, ouch: not, no
Original Word: οὐ
Part of Speech: Particle, Negative
Transliteration: ou, ouk, ouch
Phonetic Spelling: (oo)
Short Definition: no, not
Definition: no, not.

Disciple simply means follower. We are followers (disciples) of Christ.
Some are true disciples and some are false . . .

Right, and Matt 7:22 were those who were trying to earn their way into heaven by their works. The disciples are the sheep (believers of Christ) and those who preach works salvation are the wolves (nonbelievers and enemies of God). Read Matt 7:15-23 TOGETHER without man made subtitles and what do you see??

Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Sooooo, the ones who believe in homosexual union are right??
The ones who believe in abortion are right??
The ones who believe that God created MOST people just to toss into Hell are right??

They ALL claim to believe in the finished work of Christ - but their beliefs are diametrically opposed to each other. It is utter hypocrisy for YOU to claim that ALL of them are "right".

No, homosexuality and abortion are both sins and against God. God doesn't toss anyone into hell. We all have a choice to accept or deny Christ, and sadly most deny Him. What side of teh fence are u on...

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

No - Holy Spirit Baptism comes from BAPTISM. That's when you are BORN AGAIN: John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of WATER AND SPIRIT.

Who do you believe the Holy Spirit is, H2O or a person with emotions? How do we "grieve" H2O? Eph 4:30.. Is the Holy Spirit a person?

And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with what we were talking about . . .

Yes it does. You mentioned oil, and oil is used figuratively in describing the Holy Spirit. God bles BOL

 

[bbyrd009]

no that's sanctification. bbyr

imo regardless of our choice of terms or definitions, our "free gift" seems to come with a cost, i guess

 

[Nancy]

Agree Grams...Yes, once saved = saved.
But what should keep us motivated is the place/seating in the Kingdom.
As we keep on keeping on ..seeing Him who is invisible..never looking to the left or right but at God our Goal...we will in due time reach or Destination.
He is our Destiny.

"In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins -- past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24; among others. "
-https://www.allaboutgod.com/once-saved-always-saved.htm

 

[BreadOfLife]

Uhhh, no. It's only redemption for those who believe and confess. The cooperation is believing and confessing in Rom 10:9. You're trying to add more to what was accomplished at the cross. We are forgiven at the cross when we believe and confess.

Wrong.

EVERYBODY'S sins have been paid for. This is what Redemption means - to PAY for.
NOT everybody's sins have been forgiven. That takes our cooperation. through repentance.

If you believe that you are automatically forgiven of all of your future sins without repenting of them just because you are a Christian - you will have a rude awakening come Judgement Day . . .

Grace and knowledge, 2 Pet 3:18. We can fall from our firmness or steadfastness, but never salvation.

WRONG.
Grace is what SAVES us. If we lose that - then we have LOST salvation.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - fall from your own steadfastness; which was proper to them, and which, by the grace of God, they had, and retained, both in the faith of Christ and doctrine of the Gospel; for though the saints can never finally and totally fall into sin, or from the truth, yet they may fall from their steadfastness, both as to the exercise of the grace of faith, and as to their profession of the doctrine of faith; and to be fluctuating, hesitating, and doubting in either respect, must be very uncomfortable and dishonourable.

Skewed Protestant nonsense.
The Bible says differently . . .
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

Right BOL, they are about false prophets. They are false as in not true believers.

No - only verses Matt. 7:15-20 are about false prophets.
As I educated you before - verses 21-23 are about false disciples . . .

Scripture says, "not everyone" meaning he is comparing sheep and wolves because there were many Judas types and Pharisees walking around back then and even today. It seems like you're having a hard time with this so I copied the definition of the word "not".
ou, ouk, ouch: not, no
Original Word: οὐ
Part of Speech: Particle, Negative
Transliteration: ou, ouk, ouch
Phonetic Spelling: (oo)
Short Definition: no, not
Definition: no, not.

I explained this debate we are having to a group of 15 year-old Confirmation students the other night. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them understood that verses 21:23 are talking about EVERYBODY. I asked them, what about the word "Not". ALL of them answered similarly:
"Not" is simply speaking about the fact that NOT all people will be saved because they call upon Christ.

the fact that YOU can't seem to understand this is evidence that God had NOT revealed His truth to you yet.
Pray for understanding . . .

Right, and Matt 7:22 were those who were trying to earn their way into heaven by their works. The disciples are the sheep (believers of Christ) and those who preach works salvation are the wolves (nonbelievers and enemies of God). Read Matt 7:15-23 TOGETHER without man made subtitles and what do you see??
Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

No - false PROPHETS are the wolves because they lead people astray.
False disciples are goats.

No, homosexuality and abortion are both sins and against God. God doesn't toss anyone into hell. We all have a choice to accept or deny Christ, and sadly most deny Him. What side of teh fence are u on...
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

We choose Hell when we choose to disobey Christ. By disobeying His Church - you disobey HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

You cannot have all of the conflicting doctrines that I listed within Protestantism and call them ALL the "Truth." If ANY of them are lies - then they are NOT of God.

YOU said: "The one that believes in the finished work of the cross and preaches Grace salvation is right."

This is absolutely incorrect because I know DOZENS of people who believe this - yet they ALSO believe that abortion and homosexual union are good and necessary things. these are FALSE disciples. Simply "believing" is NOT enough. It requires our cooperation (obedience) with God's grace.

Who do you believe the Holy Spirit is, H2O or a person with emotions? How do we "grieve" H2O? Eph 4:30.. Is the Holy Spirit a person?
WHAT are you talking about?? WHO said the Holy spirit was H2O??
Water (H2O) is the means by which we are baptized into Christ and receive the Holy Spirit (John 3:5).
Yes it does. You mentioned oil, and oil is used figuratively in describing the Holy Spirit. God bles BOL

And AGAIN, my Scripturally-bankrupt friend - oil is the MEANS of anointing - just as mud was the means of curing the Blind Man in John 9.

God doesn't "need" tangible instruments to do His will. HOWEVER, in His understanding and mercy - He recognizes that WE, as tangible human beings DO . . .

 

[Nancy]

Wrong.

EVERYBODY'S sins have been paid for. This is what Redemption means - to PAY for.
NOT everybody's sins have been forgiven. That takes our cooperation. through repentance.

If you believe that you are automatically forgiven of all of your future sins without repenting of them just because you are a Christian - you will have a rude awakening come Judgement Day . . .

WRONG.
Grace is what SAVES us. If we lose that - then we have LOST salvation.

Skewed Protestant nonsense.
The Bible says differently . . .
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

No - only verses Matt. 7:15-20 are about false prophets.
As I educated you before - verses 21-23 are about false disciples . . .

I explained this debate we are having to a group of 15 year-old Confirmation students the other night. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them understood that verses 21:23 are talking about EVERYBODY. I asked them, what about the word "Not". ALL of them answered similarly:
"Not" is simply speaking about the fact that NOT all people will be saved because they call upon Christ.

the fact that YOU can't seem to understand this is evidence that God had NOT revealed His truth to you yet.
Pray for understanding . . .

No - false PROPHETS are the wolves because they lead people astray.
False disciples are goats.

We choose Hell when we choose to disobey Christ. By disobeying His Church - you disobey HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

You cannot have all of the conflicting doctrines that I listed within Protestantism and call them ALL the "Truth." If ANY of them are lies - then they are NOT of God.

YOU said: "The one that believes in the finished work of the cross and preaches Grace salvation is right."

This is absolutely incorrect because I know DOZENS of people who believe this - yet they ALSO believe that abortion and homosexual union are good and necessary things. these are FALSE disciples. Simply "believing" is NOT enough. It requires our cooperation (obedience) with God's grace.

And AGAIN, my Scripturally-bankrupt friend - oil is the MEANS of anointing - just as mud was the means of curing the Blind Man in John 9.

God doesn't "need" tangible instruments to do His will. HOWEVER, in His understanding and mercy - He recognizes that WE, as tangible human beings DO . . .

"By disobeying His Church - you disobey HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16)."

Good post. I do have a bit of confusion as to obeying His "Church". I consider myself a simple Christian therefore my total allegiance is to Christ and Christ alone, I have no "isms" unless it is Jesus-ism, lol. I have Jesus and He is all I need and gives me all I need physically and spiritually. Yes, I do believe we are to be accountable to one another within our local body so as to be gently corrected if we err in the core doctrines or are acting non-becoming a Christian.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"By disobeying His Church - you disobey HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16)."

Good post. I do have a bit of confusion as to obeying His "Church". I consider myself a simple Christian therefore my total allegiance is to Christ and Christ alone, I have no "isms" unless it is Jesus-ism, lol. I have Jesus and He is all I need and gives me all I need physically and spiritually. Yes, I do believe we are to be accountable to one another within our local body so as to be gently corrected if we err in the core doctrines or are acting non-becoming a Christian.

Hi Nancy - welcome to the forum!

By His Church - I DO mean Him. We have to remember what His Church is.
According to Scripture . . .
- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

To submitting to the Authority of His Church - you are submitting to HIM.

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy - welcome to the forum!

By His Church - I DO mean Him. We have to remember what His Church is.
According to Scripture . . .
- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

To submitting to the Authority of His Church - you are submitting to HIM.

"Hi Nancy - welcome to the forum!"

Thank you!
I believe in the biblical order of how there are certain roles within the body of Christ, but I also believe that
the Bible (God's Living Word (Christ) is the believers FINAL AUTHORITY on all matters. I am somewhat of a Barean, lol.

-nancy

 

[BreadOfLife]

"Hi Nancy - welcome to the forum!"

Thank you!
I believe in the biblical order of how there are certain roles within the body of Christ, but I also believe that
the Bible (God's Living Word (Christ) is the believers FINAL AUTHORITY on all matters. I am somewhat of a Barean, lol.

-nancy

Well, I believe that Scripture disagrees with you on that - but I hope we can have many fruitful and charitable conversations about it . . .