Guns, Guns, Killing, and more Guns

[Rollo Tamasi]

I honestly don't know what I think about it Rollo. All I know is that if a loved one were being attacked I would do everything in my power -while praying and trusting Him- without fear!) to stop the attacker and yes, if there were a weapon in reach you can believe I would use it. I'm sorry my friend...just how I feel about it.

I would defend also with what I know how
but pull a trigger/?
"Vengeance is mine, says the Lord".
Hit him over the head with the gun, but don't pull the trigger.
shoot him in the bum if necessary
but don't kill him

I'm not against guns, I 'm against people who claim to be Christian but don't know how to trust in the Lord.
It's hard to do but it's what we are called to do.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm actually a nice guy
problem is, you have a problem with the entire world

No - just the part that feels the need to constantly lie . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Think about this one Breadman.
You don't want to be here.

Translation: "You have completely exposed me so I'm changing the subject again."

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I like you Breadman
Let's do a ball game some time

 

[Nancy]

that's what I was doing
my sense of humor can be weird at times, but at least I have one

"but at least I have one" <---- an awesome one at that...trying to get one of my brothers to join this forum, see if he could give you a run for your money , he is fun. lol

 

[Helen]

These stories, though true, are a dime a dozen, ..

To quote my from friend @Philip James ..

Wow! And again, Just wow!!
I cannot believe that you said that...I guess you fell the same way about Corrie Ten Boom also..and Richard Wurmbrand , lets not leave out Paul, Peter and a few others ...Wow.
. . .

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

To quote my from friend @Philip James ..

Wow! And again, Just wow!!
I cannot believe that you said that...I guess you fell the same way about Corrie Ten Boom also..and Richard Wurmbrand , lets not leave out Paul, Peter and a few others ...Wow.
. . .View attachment 3127

People die everyday
How many tears do you shed for them

 

[Helen]

People die everyday
How many tears do you shed for them

I am beginning to believe what @BreadOfLife says about you..you just change the subject.

In that post I put up , I mentioned no one dying. She is still not dead, she is still preaching all these years later in her old age.

You are very flippant...
I was bring out the point in that post , that you keep talking 'your faith' in trusting Jesus to keep you...I was showing that she was kept even though she was beaten, kicked and raped...because the " me" that we all are, is NOT our body!! The "me" that we are is our inner man of the soul.

The one that should be 'shedding tears' is you...for yourself, and for your own blindness to see the depth of being kept...it is not the body.....who cares about a gun or no gun...who cares about guns at all .

 

[amadeus]

These stories, though true, are a dime a dozen, as are the stories of those who have escaped such horrors.
So what does it all mean?
That woman should have been carrying a machine gun?

"A dime a dozen" meaning cheap or common is a poor choice of idioms here considering what she really went through.

Remember the case of Jesus and his followers? Consider Peter. First he speaks well and Jesus calls him blessed:

"He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matt 16:15-17

Then a few verses later Jesus rebukes him calling him satan:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matt 16:20-23

Peter simply wanted Jesus to live and continue being Master in the here and now. He did not understand God's purpose with the death of Jesus... not yet he didn't.

We may not understand God's purpose for allowing Dr Helen Roseveare to suffer as she did. Was there a purpose for it? Well if we first consider that she loved God through it all and then read this verse we may understand that there was:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

Does that verse apply to her? I would certainly say, yes. But still we do not know all of the answers. She had no machine gun, but she was undoubtedly in God's will for her no matter how difficult and painful it was. A machine gun might have saved her body from a painful experience, but what would she have lost that she gained with God? God knew and maybe she did before her time here was finished. Very likely she does now.

Could it have been done another less painful way"?

Could God have accomplished His purpose for us with Jesus in an easier less painful way? Remember Jesus' prayer? He did not want to suffer and die in such a painful manner, but he prayed for His Father's will instead his own:

"Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:38-39

So then your question: "What does it all mean?"

 

[jaybird]

Many Christians believe it is okay to have guns and be ready to kill people if necessary.
Their argument?
"If someone breaks into my house and starts raping and killing my wife and children, I need to be prepared to protect them.

There is nothing in the Bible to back this up as I and others could prove to anyone that would be willing to listen.
Most pro gunners just close their ears to my responses.
Does anyone know of any Christians who have been in this situation?
Does anyone know of a Christian who was prepared with a gun and killed all the bad guys?
This situation doesn't exist.

nothing other than the words of Jesus:
Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
the situation did exist and those that Jesus sent out were in fact Christians in that very situation.

 

[LC627]

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."

How do you interpret this?

Dying as a martyr by a evil government for your faith is different than dying because you lack common sense to defend yourself. As @BreadOfLife said, God forbid someone should try and harm your wife/family with you around. I bet money that you're still locking your doors at night too.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I am beginning to believe what @BreadOfLife says about you..you just change the subject.

In that post I put up , I mentioned no one dying. She is still not dead, she is still preaching all these years later in her old age.

You are very flippant...
I was bring out the point in that post , that you keep talking 'your faith' in trusting Jesus to keep you...I was showing that she was kept even though she was beaten, kicked and raped...because the " me" that we all are, is NOT our body!! The "me" that we are is our inner man of the soul.

The one that should be 'shedding tears' is you...for yourself, and for your own blindness to see the depth of being kept...it is not the body.....who cares about a gun or no gun...who cares about guns at all .

You and Breadman are really a pair.
You talk about me and I repeat, why does no one discuss the final 5 paragraphs in the OP.
Is it because no one knows how to answer them?
Just say so and I'll reword it in simpler language.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

"A dime a dozen" meaning cheap or common is a poor choice of idioms here considering what she really went through.

Remember the case of Jesus and his followers? Consider Peter. First he speaks well and Jesus calls him blessed:

"He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matt 16:15-17

Then a few verses later Jesus rebukes him calling him satan:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matt 16:20-23

Peter simply wanted Jesus to live and continue being Master in the here and now. He did not understand God's purpose with the death of Jesus... not yet he didn't.

We may not understand God's purpose for allowing Dr Helen Roseveare to suffer as she did. Was there a purpose for it? Well if we first consider that she loved God through it all and then read this verse we may understand that there was:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

Does that verse apply to her? I would certainly say, yes. But still we do not know all of the answers. She had no machine gun, but she was undoubtedly in God's will for her no matter how difficult and painful it was. A machine gun might have saved her body from a painful experience, but what would she have lost that she gained with God? God knew and maybe she did before her time here was finished. Very likely she does now.

Could it have been done another less painful way"?

Could God have accomplished His purpose for us with Jesus in an easier less painful way? Remember Jesus' prayer? He did not want to suffer and die in such a painful manner, but he prayed for His Father's will instead his own:

"Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:38-39

So then your question: "What does it all mean?"

What it means to me is values.
She had had certain values to serve the Lord, and knew what may happen to her.

She is blessed.
And if you want to make her out as being a martyred saint, then fine, I buy it.
But to say someone should have been there to kill the enemy....the enemy going to hell unless they somehow get saved by someone's testimony....she knew where she was going, just like Stephen....my 4th paragraph in the OP discusses this woman, who has even read it...Why does everyone focus on guns and killing the enemy...that job belongs to God...in Scripture he claims it..who wants to challenge him on it?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

nothing other than the words of Jesus:
Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
the situation did exist and those that Jesus sent out were in fact Christians in that very situation.

Misquoted Scripture again.
Go study with someone who knows what's going on.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Dying as a martyr by a evil government for your faith is different than dying because you lack common sense to defend yourself. As @BreadOfLife said, God forbid someone should try and harm your wife/family with you around. I bet money that you're still locking your doors at night too.

I don
't have a weapon in my house to defend me against all enemies.
My defense is Jesus Christ himself.
Shall I ask him if he has time to defend you too?

 

[Dcopymope]

You and Breadman are really a pair.
You talk about me and I repeat, why does no one discuss the final 5 paragraphs in the OP.
Is it because no one knows how to answer them?
Just say so and I'll reword it in simpler language.

The more of a prayer warrior you become, the safer you will feel.

Feeling safe is not the same as actually being safe.

How much of your life have you given him?

Is there a unit of measurement to figure this out in scripture? I can't really say for sure.

It's time to truly give your life to Jesus.

So are you insinuating that armed Christians have not given their life to Jesus? Is there a scripture explicitly stating this to be the case?? All I have ever gotten from anti-gunners are scriptures concerning Godly protection that are in no way meant to be taken as being opposed to ones own ability to defend themselves.

 

[amadeus]

What it means to me is values.
She had had certain values to serve the Lord, and knew what may happen to her.

She is blessed.
And if you want to make her out as being a martyred saint, then fine, I buy it.
But to say someone should have been there to kill the enemy....the enemy going to hell unless they somehow get saved by someone's testimony....she knew where she was going, just like Stephen....my 4th paragraph in the OP discusses this woman, who has even read it...Why does everyone focus on guns and killing the enemy...that job belongs to God...in Scripture he claims it..who wants to challenge him on it?

Well her being blessed is good, is it not? Your offhanded description of her may have offended some. We do need to care, but caring doesn't mean we all have to buy and weapon and be expected to use it. Instead of someone you did not know it could have been mother or wife or daughter. Are we to love them more than some unknown person who died serving God?

I don't focus on guns my friend. When I was a teenager I bought bow and target practiced until I was quite good. I went out in the country with a friend and killed a rabbit first shot. As the rabbit tried to escape with the arrow running through its body from half way through it could not run because the arrow lodged against the bushes on either side. I couldn't retrieve the arrow. Someone else did that and finished the poor rabbit. I got rid of the bow when I got home.

I have never owned a gun. When I joined the army they taught me to shoot a rifle at a target. I got my badge for that but never fired a gun at a person... even in Viet Nam where we had machine gun available.

Having said that I believe that people should have the right to bear arms. I simply choose not to join them. I did not when I was young and now that I am old I don't expect to change. I've never been interested in owning a gun.

Would I have shot someone to protect my family? I don't know as the situation never came up. My children all have children now so I will probably never know. There's just been me and wife for years now. Undoubtedly given the situation I would try to protect her, but considering my physical weakness and the lack of any weapons in the home unless the good Lord intervened I guess we would have to suffer the consequences...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Feeling safe is not the same as actually being safe.



Is there a unit of measurement to figure this out in scripture? I can't really say for sure.



So are you insinuating that armed Christians have not given their life to Jesus? Is there a scripture explicitly stating this to be the case?? All I have ever gotten from anti-gunners are scriptures concerning Godly protection that are in no way meant to be taken as being opposed to ones own ability to defend themselves.

Carry a gun and kill, kill, kill, you deserve it. Allen Wynne 2018

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Well her being blessed is good, is it not? Your offhanded description of her may have offended some. We do need to care, but caring doesn't mean we all have to buy and weapon and be expected to use it. Instead of someone you did not know it could have been mother or wife or daughter. Are we to love them more than some unknown person who died serving God?

I don't focus on guns my friend. When I was a teenager I bought bow and target practiced until I was quite good. I went out in the country with a friend and killed a rabbit first shot. As the rabbit tried to escape with the arrow running through its body from half way through it could not run because the arrow lodged against the bushes on either side. I couldn't retrieve the arrow. Someone else did that and finished the poor rabbit. I got rid of the bow when I got home.

I have never owned a gun. When I joined the army they taught me to shoot a rifle at a target. I got my badge for that but never fired a gun at a person... even in Viet Nam where we had machine gun available.

Having said that I believe that people should have the right to bear arms. I simply choose not to join them. I did not when I was young and now that I am old I don't expect to change. I've never been interested in owning a gun.

Would I have shot someone to protect my family? I don't know as the situation never came up. My children all have children now so I will probably never know. There's just been me and wife for years now. Undoubtedly given the situation I would try to protect her, but considering my physical weakness and the lack of any weapons in the home unless the good Lord intervened I guess we would have to suffer the consequences...

Oh, you sound just like me.
Have trouble?
Call on Jesus.

 

[Dcopymope]

Carry a gun and kill, kill, kill, you deserve it. Allen Wynne 2018

......m'kay.......whatever. Just wondering, does your "Godly protection" apply to nations as well? Do nations have a right to defend themselves at all as you see it?