If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

[Enoch111]

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

The FACT that the Catholic and Orthodox churches include apocryphal books in their Bibles is sufficient to establish that they have no credibility about the canon. And the Council of Trent added insult to injury.

The Protestant Reformers were correct and consistent in why the deleted APOCRYPHAL books from their Bibles. That was on the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

I have already referred to this, but will repeat the Scriptures which establish the OT canon and exclude all apocryphal books.

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.... And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written [1] in the law of Moses, and [2] in the prophets, and [3] in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures (Luke 24:25-27;44-47)

So what do we learn from this passage?
1. The Hebrew Tanakh (24 books of the Hebrew Bible) was authoritative for Christ.
2. While He was on earth "the Scriptures" = the Prophets = Moses and the Prophets = the Law (Torah), the Prophets (Nebiim), and the Psalms (Kethubim) = PROTESTANT OT. THAT'S IT. That was the Hebrew canon and the Word of God for the eternal WORD -- Christ.

So let's examine that in detail:

THE LAW = TORAH = 5 BOOKS OF MOSES
1 Genesis
2 Exodus
3 Leviticus
4 Numbers
5 Deuteronomy

THE PROPHETS = NEBIIM (NEVIIM) = 8 BOOKS
1 Joshua
2 Judges
3 Samuel (1 book)
4 Kings (1 book)
5 Isaiah
6 Jeremiah
7 Ezekiel
8 The Minor Prophets (1 book)
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

THE PSALMS = KETHUBIM (KETUVIM) = 11 BOOKS
1 Psalms
2 Proverbs
3 Job
4 Song of Songs
5 Ruth
6 Lamentations
7 Ecclesiastes
8 Esther
9 Daniel
10 Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book)
11 Chronicles (1 book)

The only difference is that the Protestant OT does not follow the same order and has split some of the books into their components. Thus 39 books = 24 books. NO APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, in Jhn 10, Jesus explains to the Pharisees that He himself is the gate (death, burial, resurrection) and to become a sheep one would have to enter through that gate.

In Acts 20, "shepherds of the church of God" are referring to those who have the Holy Spirit and the blood of Christ.

In Rom 8:36, "we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered" is mashed in between Rom 8:35, 38-39, the most convincing OSAS passages in the NT.

In Heb 13, "the blood of the eternal covenant" is referring to "that great Shepherd of the sheep", the covenant of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to put it simply.

God bless.

Yes - the Sheep DO enter through the Gate - but the Goats do NOT.
The Goats are part of the flock - the part that is worthless and disobedient - just like the lazy servant in the Parable of the Talents.

the Lesson of the Sheep and Goats - along with the Parable of the Talents shows us that:
Obedience is ESSENTIAL part of faith.
Obedience is NECESSARY for salvation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The FACT that the Catholic and Orthodox churches include apocryphal books in their Bibles is sufficient to establish that they have no credibility about the canon. And the Council of Trent added insult to injury.

The Protestant Reformers were correct and consistent in why the deleted APOCRYPHAL books from their Bibles. That was on the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

I have already referred to this, but will repeat the Scriptures which establish the OT canon and exclude all apocryphal books.

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.... And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written [1] in the law of Moses, and [2] in the prophets, and [3] in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures (Luke 24:25-27;44-47)

So what do we learn from this passage?
1. The Hebrew Tanakh (24 books of the Hebrew Bible) was authoritative for Christ.
2. While He was on earth "the Scriptures" = the Prophets = Moses and the Prophets = the Law (Torah), the Prophets (Nebiim), and the Psalms (Kethubim) = PROTESTANT OT. THAT'S IT. That was the Hebrew canon and the Word of God for the eternal WORD -- Christ.

So let's examine that in detail:

THE LAW = TORAH = 5 BOOKS OF MOSES
1 Genesis
2 Exodus
3 Leviticus
4 Numbers
5 Deuteronomy

THE PROPHETS = NEBIIM (NEVIIM) = 8 BOOKS
1 Joshua
2 Judges
3 Samuel (1 book)
4 Kings (1 book)
5 Isaiah
6 Jeremiah
7 Ezekiel
8 The Minor Prophets (1 book)
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

THE PSALMS = KETHUBIM (KETUVIM) = 11 BOOKS
1 Psalms
2 Proverbs
3 Job
4 Song of Songs
5 Ruth
6 Lamentations
7 Ecclesiastes
8 Esther
9 Daniel
10 Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book)
11 Chronicles (1 book)

The only difference is that the Protestant OT does not follow the same order and has split some of the books into their components. Thus 39 books = 24 books. NO APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.

WHO told you that the Deuterocanonical Books were "Apocryphal"?? Certainly NOT Jesus.
Jesus and the NT writers quote, reference and allude to these 7 Books about 200 TIMES in the New Testament. Here are a few examples . . .

Eph. 6:13-17 - the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20 - almost verbatim.

Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Rev. 1:4 – the seven spirits who are before his throne is taken from Tobit 12:15 – Raphael is one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints before the Holy One.

Rev. 8:3-4 - prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows Tobit 12:12,15.

As for YOUR reference to a "Hebrew Canon" - the Canon of Scripture during the life of Christ and shortly thereafter was an OPEN Canon. It wasn't closed until AFTER Christ ascended to the Father and AFTER the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.

Finally - the OLDEST Talmud - the Babylonian Talmud quotes the Deuterocanonical Books as SCRIPTURE.

The canon that you Protestants adhere to is a POST-Christ, POST-Temple canon that was declared by a Jewish rabbinical school - and NOT the one that Jesus and the Apostles studied from . . .

 

[epostle1]

The FACT that the Catholic and Orthodox churches include apocryphal books in their Bibles is sufficient to establish that they have no credibility about the canon. And the Council of Trent added insult to injury.

The Protestant Reformers were correct and consistent in why the deleted APOCRYPHAL books from their Bibles. That was on the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

I have already referred to this, but will repeat the Scriptures which establish the OT canon and exclude all apocryphal books.

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.... And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written [1] in the law of Moses, and [2] in the prophets, and [3] in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures (Luke 24:25-27;44-47)

So what do we learn from this passage?
1. The Hebrew Tanakh (24 books of the Hebrew Bible) was authoritative for Christ.
2. While He was on earth "the Scriptures" = the Prophets = Moses and the Prophets = the Law (Torah), the Prophets (Nebiim), and the Psalms (Kethubim) = PROTESTANT OT. THAT'S IT. That was the Hebrew canon and the Word of God for the eternal WORD -- Christ.

So let's examine that in detail:

THE LAW = TORAH = 5 BOOKS OF MOSES
1 Genesis
2 Exodus
3 Leviticus
4 Numbers
5 Deuteronomy

THE PROPHETS = NEBIIM (NEVIIM) = 8 BOOKS
1 Joshua
2 Judges
3 Samuel (1 book)
4 Kings (1 book)
5 Isaiah
6 Jeremiah
7 Ezekiel
8 The Minor Prophets (1 book)
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

THE PSALMS = KETHUBIM (KETUVIM) = 11 BOOKS
1 Psalms
2 Proverbs
3 Job
4 Song of Songs
5 Ruth
6 Lamentations
7 Ecclesiastes
8 Esther
9 Daniel
10 Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book)
11 Chronicles (1 book)

The only difference is that the Protestant OT does not follow the same order and has split some of the books into their components. Thus 39 books = 24 books. NO APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.

I challenge you to find a 66 book canon that was compiled/used/printed/copied before the 14th century. Use any Bible. Anywhere in the world. We have been over this in the Matt Slick thread. Your prejudice keeps you from learning. You affirm the Epostle Theory of Blind Prejudice and you are too proud to take correction.

The term "Apocrypha" is a Protestant emphasis. Books such as the Gospel of Thomas, and the Epistle of Barnabus are also classed as "Apocrypha" and were rejected by the Church.

The canon of Scripture approved at the Council of Trent IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE CANON OF THE FIRST BIBLE IN 397 A.D. Trent added nothing. You are covering up the reformers mistakes.

Enoch111's attempt to defend his rejection of the deuterocanonicals (erroneously called "Apocrypha") on the ground that the early Jews rejected them. However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called “Jamnia” in 90 – 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testament canon. Thus, Enoch111 who rejects the Catholic Bible is following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament.

...never bring a pea-shooter to a gun fight...

​

​

 

[bbyrd009]

they don't call it the Dark Ages for nothing, Mary.

"
They did it to everybody: the Carthaginians, the British, the Germanians, the Celts, the Iberians, the Illyrians, the Dacians. They targeted the intellectual elite, the scholars, druids and priests and killed them all, and burned whatever libraries there were. What was left they annexed and taxed. They reverted entire sophisticated societies to pre-Pleistocene levels of collective comprehension, and dazzled the survivors with luxury and entertainment, which was then as much as now just "part of their enslavement" (in the words of Tacitus; Agricola.1.21).

In order to not having to fight them, they made them believe, and for this the wizards who pursued natural law had to die. They destroyed ancient cities beyond recognition and nullified entire cultures as if they had never existed. They were, in the words of a Caledonian commander named Galgacus, "robbers of the world, exhausting the earth with their world-wide plunder. Robbery, slaughter and plunder they lyingly call empire. They create a wasteland, and call it peace" (Tacitus, Agricola.1.30)

Roman spin doctors did a great job in glorifying the Roman effort and discrediting the vanquished, and although they were believed for centuries, in modern times a critical examination of texts and treasures left in the ground reveals that life in the Roman world was a bloody nightmare from which humanity is only recently trying to awake. Whatever nobility the Romans are remembered for they pillaged from cultures they raped and burned.

Their true legacy lives on as any government's most enticing refuge and was last most clearly visited by Adolf Hitler. His Intelligenzaktion again targeted the intellectuals. His Ahnenerbe again placed the abomination in the sanctuary. The only real difference between Hitler and Augustus is that Augustus had won.
Mankind suffered his darkness until the Renaissance.

Setting the captives free
" http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Mary.html#.W1jhudJKiUl

 

[Grams]

When I belonged to the Catholic Church, lady's had to wear a hat !
Do you still have to ?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes - the Sheep DO enter through the Gate - but the Goats do NOT.
The Goats are part of the flock - the part that is worthless and disobedient - just like the lazy servant in the Parable of the Talents.

the Lesson of the Sheep and Goats - along with the Parable of the Talents shows us that:
Obedience is ESSENTIAL part of faith.
Obedience is NECESSARY for salvation.

The sheep enter through the gate by belief only BOL.

Jhn 10:1-10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them. 7Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.a They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

 

[epostle1]

When I belonged to the Catholic Church, lady's had to wear a hat !
Do you still have to ?

You must be over the age of 70. Women wearing hats as a requirement is not a doctrine, it is a discipline, or an ordinance. Some women choose to cover their heads for Mass, but most do not. In some countries, it is a custom. But even there, a woman will not be burned at the stake for not wearing a hat. The point of Paul's teaching is to stress submission and humility, the hat is merely an outward sign of virtue and respect for God. No, head coverings are no longer a requirement, but humility is a virtue that cannot be seen.

​

 

[epostle1]

The sheep enter through the gate by belief only BOL.

Jhn 10:1-10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them. 7Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.a They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

BoL started by referring to the separation of sheep and goats. This monumentous event takes place in heaven, not earth. A similar use of the metaphor applies to "sheep" on earth.
Matt. 25:31-46 – Jesus’ teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior. In fact, this teaching even demonstrates that those who are ultimately saved do not necessarily have to know Christ. Also, we don’t accept Christ; He accepts us. God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.

1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church. Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock. These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.

These are all voluntary acts,
they are not commandments from the Pope.​

 

[Heb 13:8]

Matt. 25:31-46 – Jesus’ teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior.

This is a parable...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parables_of_Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats

Epostle, God doesn't send people to hell for not feeding the homeless or not giving drink to them. It's similar to how God doesn't send believers to hell for lack of maturity in Heb 5, 6.

In Jhn 10, Jesus explains to the Pharisees that He himself is the gate (death, burial, resurrection) and to become a sheep one would have to enter through that gate.

In Acts 20, "shepherds of the church of God" are referring to those who have the Holy Spirit and the blood of Christ.

In Rom 8:36, "we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered" is mashed in between Rom 8:35, 38-39, the most convincing OSAS passages in the NT.

In Heb 13, "the blood of the eternal covenant" is referring to "that great Shepherd of the sheep", the covenant of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to put it simply.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/sheep-wolves-illustration.26291/

Is God in contradiction? God bless

 

[epostle1]

This is a parable...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parables_of_Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats

Epostle, God doesn't send people to hell for not feeding the homeless or not giving drink to them. It's similar to how God doesn't send believers to hell for lack of maturity in Heb 5, 6.

In Jhn 10, Jesus explains to the Pharisees that He himself is the gate (death, burial, resurrection) and to become a sheep one would have to enter through that gate.

In Acts 20, "shepherds of the church of God" are referring to those who have the Holy Spirit and the blood of Christ.

In Rom 8:36, "we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered" is mashed in between Rom 8:35, 38-39, the most convincing OSAS passages in the NT.

In Heb 13, "the blood of the eternal covenant" is referring to "that great Shepherd of the sheep", the covenant of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to put it simply.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/sheep-wolves-illustration.26291/

Is God in contradiction? God bless

The Calvin god creates people just to send them to hell.
Your double predestination stinks.
+...
The anonymous psalmist in 112:5 refers to a good man (Hebrew, tob), as does the book of Proverbs repeatedly (11:23, 12:2, 13:22, 14:14, 19), using the same word, tob, which appears in Psalm 14:2-3. References to righteous men are innumerable (e.g., Job 17:9; 22:19; Ps 5:12; 32:11; 34:15; 37:16, 32; Mt 9:13; 13:17; 25:37, 46; Rom 5:19; Heb 11:4; Jas 5;16; 1 Pet 3:12; 4:18; etc., etc.).

Jewish idiom and hyperbole of this sort appears in many other similar passages. For example, Jesus says:

Luke 18:19 No one is good but God alone. (cf. Mt 19:17)

Yet He also said:

Matthew 12:35 The good person brings good things out of a good treasure.… (cf. 5:45; 7:17-20; 22:10)

Jesus is drawing a strong contrast between our righteousness and God’s, but He doesn’t deny that we can be “good” in a lesser sense. Psalm 53:1-3 provides a similar example, almost identical to Psalm 14. Again, we see other proximate Psalms refer to the “righteous” or “godly” (e.g., 52:1, 6, 9; 53:4; 55:22; 58:10-11).

Romans 3:11 states, “no one seeks for God,” and in Psalms 14:2, God looks “to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God.” This is again hyperbolic language, and we know this because many passages teach us that many men did seek after God (e.g., Deut 4:29; 1 Chr 16:10-11; 22:19; 2 Chr 11:16; 15:12-13; 30:19; Ps 34:10; 69:32; Prov 28:5; Is 51:1; 55:6; Jer 50:4; Hos 3:5; Amos 5:6; Zeph 2:3; Zech 8:21-22; Acts 17:27).

Quite obviously, then, it is not the case that “no one” whatsoever seeks God. Passages that seem to be utterly sweeping need to be understood in terms of literary genre, immediate context, and in light of other relevant and related Bible verses.
The Bible is God’s inspired and infallible Word. It is completely self-consistent and always harmonious with itself. But Calvin’s prior theological system that he brings to Scripture would cause it to massively self-contradict. Since we believe in faith that this isn’t possible, false tenets of Calvin’s system need to be discarded, in cases where it causes this unworthy result.

The above illustrative example shows how Calvin’s exegetical reasoning fails, and does violence to Holy Scripture, rightly understood. Once again, the Catholic understanding is demonstrated to be far more in line with the Bible.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The sheep enter through the gate by belief only BOL.

Jhn 10:1-10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them. 7Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.a They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Uh huh - and what does it mean to "BELIEVE"??
Remember - even the DEMONS "believe" (James 2:19) but they will never enter into Heaven.

For the sheep, "believing" means . . .
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

For followers of Christ (sheep) - "Believe" means to OBEY.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Quite obviously, then, it is not the case that “no one” whatsoever seeks God. Passages that seem to be utterly sweeping need to be understood in terms of literary genre, immediate context, and in light of other relevant and related Bible verses.
The Bible is God’s inspired and infallible Word. It is completely self-consistent and always harmonious with itself. But Calvin’s prior theological system that he brings to Scripture would cause it to massively self-contradict. Since we believe in faith that this isn’t possible, false tenets of Calvin’s system need to be discarded, in cases where it causes this unworthy result.

The above illustrative example shows how Calvin’s exegetical reasoning fails, and does violence to Holy Scripture, rightly understood. Once again, the Catholic understanding is demonstrated to be far more in line with the Bible.

God doesn't send people to hell for not feeding the homeless or not giving drink to them. It's similar to how God doesn't send believers to hell for lack of maturity in Heb 5, 6. Disproving facts through parables is sloppy exegesis.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Uh huh - and what does it mean to "BELIEVE"??
Remember - even the DEMONS "believe" (James 2:19) but they will never enter into Heaven.

For the sheep, "believing" means . . .
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

For followers of Christ (sheep) - "Believe" means to OBEY.

Matt 25 sheep and goats is a parable...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parables_of_Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats

God doesn't send people to hell for not feeding the homeless or not giving drink to them. It's similar to how God doesn't send believers to hell for lack of maturity in Heb 5, 6. Disproving facts through parables is sloppy exegesis.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matt 25 sheep and goats is a parable...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parables_of_Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats

God doesn't send people to hell for not feeding the homeless or not giving drink to them. It's similar to how God doesn't send believers to hell for lack of maturity in Heb 5, 6. Disproving facts through parables is sloppy exegesis.

Parables aren't fairy tales. They convey TRUTH - not fantasy.
It's only "sloppy exegesis" to YOU because it destroys your false position.

What do you think verse 41 is talking about if NOT Hell??
Matt. 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

This entire lesson is about those who show love and mercy (obedience) vs. those who don't - and the rewards and penalties for each.

 

[epostle1]

Matt 25 sheep and goats is a parable...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parables_of_Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats

God doesn't send people to hell for not feeding the homeless or not giving drink to them. It's similar to how God doesn't send believers to hell for lack of maturity in Heb 5, 6. Disproving facts through parables is sloppy exegesis.

​

 

[Heb 13:8]

Parables aren't fairy tales. They convey TRUTH - not fantasy.

fable
noun. fantasy, story

allegory
apologue
bestiary
bunk
crock
fabrication
fairy story
fairy tale
falsehood
fantasy
fib
fiction
figment
fish story
hogwash
invention
legend
lie
myth
old chestnut
old saw
one for the birds
parable
romance
tale
tall story
untruth
white lie
whopper
yarn

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/parable?s=t

 

[Heb 13:8]

..

You seem desperate, using parables to prove your false theology. Giving your life to Jesus Christ is much better. God bless.

 

[BreadOfLife]

fable
noun. fantasy, story

allegory
apologue
bestiary
bunk
crock
fabrication
fairy story
fairy tale
falsehood
fantasy
fib
fiction
figment
fish story
hogwash
invention
legend
lie
myth
old chestnut
old saw
one for the birds
parable
romance
tale
tall story
untruth
white lie
whopper
yarn

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/parable?s=t

Thanks for that utterly useless information.
We're talking about PARABLES - not Fables.

According to Newadvent Catholic Encyclopedia - a "Parable" is defined as:
The word parable (Hebrew mashal; Syrian mathla, Greek parabole) signifies in general a comparison, or a parallel, by which one thing is used to illustrate another. It is a likeness taken from the sphere of real, or sensible, or earthly incidents, in order to convey an ideal, or spiritual, or heavenly meaning.


From the King James Bible Dictionary:
An utterance that involves a comparison.


From Smith's Bible Dictionary:
(The word parable is in Greek parable (parabole ) which signifies placing beside or together, a comparison, a parable is therefore literally a placing beside, a comparison, a similitude, an illustration of one subject by another. --McClintock and Strong. As used in the New Testament it had a very wide application, being applied sometimes to the shortest proverbs, (1 Samuel 10:12 ; 24:13 ; 2 Chronicles 7:20) sometimes to dark prophetic utterances, (Numbers 23:7 Numbers 23:18 ;24:3 ; Ezekiel 20:49) sometimes to enigmatic maxims, (Psalms 78:2 ; Proverbs 1:6) or metaphors expanded into a narrative. (Ezekiel 12:22)

The parable differs from the fable (1) in excluding brute and inanimate creatures passing out of the laws of their nature and speaking or acting like men; (2) in its higher ethical significance. It differs from the allegory in that the latter, with its direct personification of ideas or attributes, and the names which designate them, involves really no comparison. The virtues and vices of mankind appear as in a drama, in their own character and costume. The allegory is self-interpreting; the parable demands attention, insight, sometimes an actual explanation. It differs from a proverb in that it must include a similitude of some kind, while the proverb may assert, without a similitude, some wide generalization of experience.)

Parables convey TRUTH by comparison - NOT fantasy.
The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats compares what will happen to those who are obedient - as opposed to those who are disobedient. It shows that their salvation or damnation depends on it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You seem desperate, using parables to prove your false theology. Giving your life to Jesus Christ is much better. God bless.

Actually - it's YOU seems desperate to discredit the parables of Jesus as simple "fantasy" to support your man-made OSAS perversions . . .