If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

[Naomi25]

Like GG, I too know many Catholics and it is where I came out of as I always was left empty and wanting spiritually. As far as them not being correct in all they do and teach, if a persons heart is true to the Lord, (like my Catholic grandma was) I can hardly believe she is NOT in heaven. My belief is, the hierarchy will be held to judgement as they KNOW better. If the Catholics themselves (congregants) know they are saved through Jesus Christ and nothing added, I say they are just fine but, that of course, is not up to me!

It's intriguing, isn't it, to wonder how much a person has to "get it right" to be saved. So often we insist on all the boxes being ticked, but then we look back at the OT 'believers' and realize that they were saved because they had faith in the Savior to come. They didn't know any of the finer points we often stress. They just knew God would make a way, and they had faith in that. Then we see those who, because of disability reasons, cannot grasp the finer points. But they "know Jesus". I believe they are saved as well.
I think it's important to study these things, to know as best we can. God has revealed them to us, so we must look into them, and get to know him. But, like you, I hope that on that day, we will see many people who loved Jesus, even if they couldn't tick all the boxes.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wouldn't it be our perception of truth that is the moving target? The heart of man being deceitful above all things? Jer.17:9

"a sin for you may not be a sin for me" paraphrased seems to be a hinge there. imo our perception of truth is more like "virtually non-existent" or something? we're up to, what, slightly less than 5% of the material plane? So iow ya, that is one way to put it i guess, and i wouldn't completely toss determinism either, what was true before might be true again.

what bugs me about the statement if anything is that it suggests that we might accept truth that does not align with our interests more easily at some times than others, and i'm not sure that is true. Might be, but i can't find it Written. Could be using a diff term though i guess. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn

which i guess we are currently reading differently, imo i saw this happen yesterday, and it has been happening since A&E walked the earth, but regardless, any other Scripture to consider would be interesting. The opposite pov is surely in There and i am just not searching it right. Truth = Word, Christ, God, Spirit, and what else...Gospel...am i missing any

 

[bbyrd009]

That demons do not believe in God.

they totally believe in God, and you are contradicting Scripture again Heb. You are twisting a passage to suit your conclusion, and wadr you have repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot address other Scripture too. If you start from a cemented conclusion you will be lost Heb. God can make believers from stones. You are daily breaking your neck to prove that no one has to worry about the Judgement of Works, the only judgement there is, in between counselling others to eschew the Law, which is also satanic. Give yourself a break Heb

 

[Nancy]

It's intriguing, isn't it, to wonder how much a person has to "get it right" to be saved. So often we insist on all the boxes being ticked, but then we look back at the OT 'believers' and realize that they were saved because they had faith in the Savior to come. They didn't know any of the finer points we often stress. They just knew God would make a way, and they had faith in that. Then we see those who, because of disability reasons, cannot grasp the finer points. But they "know Jesus". I believe they are saved as well.
I think it's important to study these things, to know as best we can. God has revealed them to us, so we must look into them, and get to know him. But, like you, I hope that on that day, we will see many people who loved Jesus, even if they couldn't tick all the boxes.

Well put Naomi,
I agree, we can sometimes complicate the simple...and some of course, will wrest the Word to fit their comfort level. I have nothing but peace where my Grandmother is concerned...I could care less if she was Catholic, she lived her faith and it was very evident in how she treated everyone, my mom was like a carbon copy of her, lol...I miss them so much but have great gladness for them as well! And, not more ticking boxes!!! Lol.
In His Name,
-nancy

 

[amadeus]

It's intriguing, isn't it, to wonder how much a person has to "get it right" to be saved. So often we insist on all the boxes being ticked, but then we look back at the OT 'believers' and realize that they were saved because they had faith in the Savior to come.

Indeed, they did not know that His name was to be Jesus... yet they had faith in something unseen, something hoped for.

They didn't know any of the finer points we often stress. They just knew God would make a way, and they had faith in that. Then we see those who, because of disability reasons, cannot grasp the finer points. But they "know Jesus". I believe they are saved as well.
I think it's important to study these things, to know as best we can. God has revealed them to us, so we must look into them, and get to know him. But, like you, I hope that on that day, we will see many people who loved Jesus, even if they couldn't tick all the boxes.

Indeed again God doesn't judge us by how we know or do not know of what some might call the "facts". He judges us by what we do with what we have. If you have a high IQ, use it. If you have a lot of money use it. It you have time, use it? But how in each case? If we are following Him, He will lead us rightly even if we don't know a thing about it.

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:47-48

 

[Heb 13:8]

they totally believe in God, and you are contradicting Scripture again Heb. You are twisting a passage to suit your conclusion, and wadr you have repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot address other Scripture too. If you start from a cemented conclusion you will be lost Heb. God can make believers from stones. You are daily breaking your neck to prove that no one has to worry about the Judgement of Works, the only judgement there is, in between counselling others to eschew the Law, which is also satanic. Give yourself a break Heb

bbyrd, read slower if you need to. demons do not believe Jesus is their savior. Abraham did.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right BOL, like I said. They believe in one God, but they do not believe Jesus is their savior. Abraham did.

Abraham had NO idea who Jesus was.
Where do you get your manure??

 

[Heb 13:8]

Abraham had NO idea who Jesus was.
Where do you get your manure??

Jesus Christ is not a created being BOL.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

 

[Enoch111]

That demons do not believe in God.

they totally believe in God, and you are contradicting Scripture...

We need to be clear as to what it means when Scripture says demons *believe* in God and tremble.

1. The recognize that God exists, and they cannot avoid this.
2. The also recognize that they are already destined for Hell as God's judgment against them.
3. They tremble because God can do whatever He wishes with them. In one incident with Christ, the demons wondered if they would be cast into Hell before their time.
4. This believing is not "saving faith" but a simple recognition of reality.

It would be like an atheist recognizing that the sun exists, because he sees it every day. But that would not lead him to believe that God created the sun and all of creation, and that God will be his Judge.

 

[Heb 13:8]

they totally believe in God, and you are contradicting Scripture...

We need to be clear as to what it means when Scripture says demons *believe* in God and tremble.

1. The recognize that God exists, and they cannot avoid this.
2. The also recognize that they are already destined for Hell as God's judgment against them.
3. They tremble because God can do whatever He wishes with them. In one incident with Christ, the demons wondered if they would be cast into Hell before their time.
4. This believing is not "saving faith" but a simple recognition of reality.

It would be like an atheist recognizing that the sun exists, because he sees it every day. But that would not lead him to believe that God created the sun and all of creation, and that God will be his Judge.

It's a manipulation of scripture, and how they can't see that is beyond me. Demons believe in one God, Abraham believed God.

 

[Naomi25]

Indeed, they did not know that His name was to be Jesus... yet they had faith in something unseen, something hoped for.


Indeed again God doesn't judge us by how we know or do not know of what some might call the "facts". He judges us by what we do with what we have. If you have a high IQ, use it. If you have a lot of money use it. It you have time, use it? But how in each case? If we are following Him, He will lead us rightly even if we don't know a thing about it.

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:47-48

Yes, I've never given much thought about it "from this angle" to be perfectly honest. Usually I'm wading into correct doctrine debates and considering things from that angle. And I do still think that if we are able to, that is important. But like you've just pointed out, and, for example, Rom 1:20, where Paul tells us that even those without a bible are still able to come to the conclusion that God exists, we see that perhaps coming to trust in Christ is simpler than we think.


For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures - 1 Corinthians 15:3–4

 

[aspen]

Doctrine doesn’t save.

Loving God and neighbor saves

 

[brakelite]

Doctrine doesn’t save.

Loving God and neighbor saves

No, while love is good, it doesn't save. The only thing that saves is our acceptance of the shed blood of the Lamb in our place. Love is a fruit of having the holy Spirit abiding in us...the result of our relationship with, and attachment to, the Vine.

 

[aspen]

No, while love is good, it doesn't save. The only thing that saves is our acceptance of the shed blood of the Lamb in our place. Love is a fruit of having the holy Spirit abiding in us...the result of our relationship with, and attachment to, the Vine.

The shedding of Christ’s blood for the forgiveness of our sin is love

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd, read slower if you need to. demons do not believe Jesus is their savior. Abraham did.

go with that if you like, Heb, it isn't true but it encourages you, right? then fine. Stick with knowledge that brings you joy if you like. the truth is not going anywhere. You cannot Quote Abe "believing" anything, except in English, and all you are doing is making another Scripture Verse irrelevant

 

[brakelite]

The shedding of Christ’s blood for the forgiveness of our sin is love

Indeed it is. God's love for fallen humanity. The precious gift the Father gave, His only begotten Son to man forever, and through Him our adoption. What love is this that we should be called the children of God. It is not our love however that saves us, either for him or our neighbour, it is His love for us. Without him we are nothing.

 

[Heb 13:8]

go with that if you like, Heb, it isn't true but it encourages you, right? then fine. Stick with knowledge that brings you joy if you like. the truth is not going anywhere. You cannot Quote Abe "believing" anything, except in English, and all you are doing is making another Scripture Verse irrelevant

it isn't true, what isn't true bbyrd?

 

[bbyrd009]

it isn't true, what isn't true bbyrd?

that the same belief we had in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny will be sufficient, Heb.
i guess this is for someone else prolly, but "Have no fear" can also be translated "have no worship."

"Only Believe" is just another satanic song, Heb, that cannot be backed up by Scripture, except in English.
and fwiw i don't even blame you a bit ok, "faith" is turned into "belief" by many or most Translators, and we even say "the _______ faith" as if that were true, "the Christian faith, the Catholic faith, the Muslim faith," like that, as if faith could be apportioned like beliefs, and etc. It seems acceptable bc everyone is doing it.

But when you are judged for your works, like all will be, you will discover that the explanation given you for why you will supposedly not be judged in that manner will not hold water Heb, you are part of "all" just like anyone else is, and that preacher was deceiving you ok, bc he is deceiving himself too.

This is how we get to denying our birthright, see, and imagining eternal parties with Jesus in full kit, and digging pits for others to fall into. Understand what "Hegelian dialectic" means imo, and then look. "Two men in a..." is just a way to describe me, or you, in such a way that it will be hidden from the wise.

Your belief in a place called Heaven comes right from the RCC and the Cult of Sol Invictus, and your belief in hell came just a little bit later, via Norman/Angle scribes; but you are not even reading anymore, are you--you have already found some irrelevant snip you can quote that has suggested another irrelevant sermon you can preach at me--and you certainly do not want to address the evidence, do you. So i'll reply to you again when you do, wadr, i mean we are not even really having a convo

 

[Heb 13:8]

that the same belief we had in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny will be sufficient, Heb.

Well, I gues god the father is the easter bunny, won't be the bunny at the great white throne tho. its all a joke on the internete until they die in their sins.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, I gues god the father is the easter bunny, won't be the bunny at the great white throne tho. its all a joke on the internete until they die in their sins.

go ahead and deflect if it makes you feel better Heb. Have a nice day
maybe you don't even realize you are doing this or something, i don't know,
but the subject was not bunnies at the throne ok