Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

[farouk]

Worth repeating. “death swallowed up in victory.”

Great verse there!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You keep saying the saving of Israel which you think are only Jew's,(another subject)what about the rest of the people in the world

That is NOT what I said. The Jews will be only a part of Israel during the Millennial Kingdom! God will bring the rest of the tribes into the Land--He knows exactly who they are and where they are "scattered among the nations". Those who make it into the Millennial Kingdom will ALL be believers in Jesus Messiah whether they are Jew or Gentile.

Jew's need Christ just like all others,and just like all other's they won't be saved just because.

What on earth made you think that I thought that Jews or any of the rest of Israel or Gentiles could be saved without the Blood of Jesus?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

How so??

I explained what I meant--please go back and look at it.

 

[tzcho2]

What the heck does truly saved mean?

There are those who count themselves Christians but are not born from above, sorry but that should not be a difficult stretch or controversial. It's in scripture.
Matt 7:22 "21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…

 

[tzcho2]

You mean it is what you "read INTO the scriptures", instead of "read in the scriptures", don't you?
There is no pre-trib rapture written of in God's Holy Writ. Furthermore, Christ made it plain that His second coming and gathering of His Church is on the last day of this present world.

Not in Your mind. Jehovahs witness ? correct?

 

[tzcho2]

Produce one example. Prove you have direct scripture quotes for what you say.

Memory ain't what it used to be?

 

[Copperhead]

You're simply misguided. You think those born of Israel will have some 'special' salvation unto themselves.

No, you are misguided. I never said they have a salvation unto themselves. Salvation of the individual is only thru Messiah. But the covenants made with Israel, and their election, is on a corporate level and has nothing to do with salvation of the individual. And that belies the problem... many associate election with justification which is not the case.

When the scripture says that all Israel will be saved, it is not talking about individual salvation. It is talking about physical, literal Israel as a corporate entity. Not all who are of that entity will be justified to eternal life. But the entity will be saved to be restored as it was intended in the Messianic Kingdom. That is the focus of Matthew 25, Ezekiel 20, and Joel 3 among many other passages.

 

[Copperhead]

You really don't know what you're talking about, because the ten northern tribes of Israel never were known... by the title of Jew.

And you are showing your limited knowledge of the subject.

In many instances in 2 Chronicles, many from the northern tribes migrated south and joined with Judah as the northern kingdom went from bad to worse. Even over 100 years after the Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom, a call went out and many from the tribes that were in the north migrated to Judah and Jerusalem. 2 Chronicles goes into quite a bit of detail and leaves no ambiguity. Archeology records show that King Sargon of Assyria only carted off about 28,000 of the northern tribes and 50 chariots.

Because of all the above, all the tribes were present together when the southern kingdom was taken in exile to Babylon. And when Ezra brought his remnant back to the Land from Babylon, it is recorded they were called Jews 9 times and Israel 40 times.... the entire collective group.

When Nehemiah brought back his remnant, they were called Jews 11 times and Israel 22 times.

By the time of the Maccabees, the entire corporate group represented by all the tribes, Jew and Israel had become interchangeable terms.

 

[Truth]

It’s good to know the great tribulation is over

Consider This!! God Promised us that we would not be faced with HIS Wrath, But no where in Scripture are we relieved from the wrath of the wicked one! When the time of the wicked one is close, then the Dragon go's after the believers! Just as the Early Follower's were Persecuted, So shall the last days be for us. Faithful to the End!! Whatever your end might be.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I'm sorry if I made your question into something it was not, that was not my goal at all...I was only attempting to answer the question as I saw it...sorry if I got it wrong.
If I now go on and do the same, forgive, again...not my intent.
I know most Dispensationalists agree that Jewish people still must call on the name of Jesus to be saved. However, it is there that they draw the line and say what it appears you have above, that "it applies differently to different people". The problem with that is that the NT systematically demolishes it. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:25–28

This is addressing Jews and Gentiles within the fledgling churches. Some of the Jews were telling the Gentiles that they must be circumcised and, in effect, obey the Law of Moses in order to be saved. That is called "Judaizing" and it should never be done. That was settled very early on. (see Acts 15). The Judaizers and others in the church at Galatia, were breaking the church into factions and Paul emphasized the unity that we all have in Christ. BUT, that does NOT mean that God does not have further plans for Israel in the future. Different subject. Please read the Old Testament prophets. They tell what will happen far in the future in the "end of days". They are, of course, still future to us as well.

Paul takes away any notion of there being 'two systems in Christ', if I can put it that way. He says we are "all one in Christ". But...in case there are those (for indeed there are) who fear that the promises made to Abraham and the nation of Israel are therefore not being fulfilled by God in this manner, Paul goes on to say:

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. -Romans 9:6–8

The Apostle Paul starts this passage by explaining that even those descended from Jacob/Israel could fall away and cease to be a part of Israel. The Samaritans rightfully thought of themselves as descendants of Jacob--recall the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well. But, they were not considered to be "children of the promise" because their ancestors (after Jacob) fell into idolatry and were subsequently carried into slavery and exile, by the Assyrians. They are part of the "Ten Lost Tribes" but they have been put aside to be brought back into right relationship with God in the Millennial Kingdom (recall that Ezekiel speaks of Judah and Israel being rejoined in the Land in what was then, "the distant future").

Then Paul broadens his argument to take into account that Abraham had other children who were excluded from the promises given through Isaac (and thus Jacob). Did you forget that God made a distinction between the descendants of Ishmael (who is also a "child of the flesh" of Abraham) and those who are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel? There were many in Paul's day who were saying that they were the "children of Abraham" who were not, in fact, "children of the promise" (just as there are today--Muslims speak of their "father, Ibrahim" and have decided that Ishmael is the "child of promise").

So...not all Jews are "Israel", right? It's the "children of the promise" who are "counted as offspring". Who are the "children of promise"?

I just told you who they are.

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. -Galatians 3:29

ALL who are Christ's are either the spiritual seed of Abraham (Gentiles saved by the Blood of the Lamb) OR Abraham's physical seed as well as Abraham's spiritual seed, if they belong to Christ.

So, you can see why there cannot be a 'separate' plan, or a 'difference in application' of the salvational plan according to scripture. There is Christ, and there are those who are growing from him, either naturally, or by being grafted there. Jews who believe in Christ are grafted in, just as the Gentiles were, and become Christians, members of the church.
But nowhere in scripture does Christ, or Paul, give us any sort of leave to say that any of these Jews who come to believe in Christ, become anything other then members of the Church, fellow believers like you and I, children of promise.

No. We are NOT "children of the promise" because we are NOT descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel (at least, I don't think I am--but who knows? Only God knows). The "promise" was a Land covenant and was NOT given to us. Being able to stay in the Land was conditional on obedience. So it was spiritual as well. The Church has only spiritual promises.

 

[bbyrd009]

scriptural instances of rapture"...I honestly have no idea of what references you are speaking of.

Bible Search: Rapture

well, they haven't changed

 

[Dave L]

Memory ain't what it used to be?

Have someone do it for you.

 

[bbyrd009]

...I just simply....can't talk with you

ok, and you also cannot connect harpazo and rapture either right, or I mean list a Scriptural link and lemme see it. Is violent men seizing it by force something literal, that can be seen with two eyes?

 

[bbyrd009]

Imo certainly it is; just note someone testifying of themselves and/or commending themselves to each other, and if those are not fam to anyone they do not need to be reading me anyway I guess. No offense there ok, but google can find them no sweat? And see if I list the v here I get linked...in a way that would overwhelm me ok, sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

Worth repeating. “death swallowed up in victory.”

Spiritual death, right

 

[tzcho2]

Bible Search: Rapture
well, they haven't changed

It hasn't changed -->
Bible Search: caught up
Why continue to perpetuate that same lame strategy of ignoring the facts of the definition that the word & it's origins and useage as has been given multiple times?
The word is rapturo in latin, harpazo in greek and it means catching up. All this has been posted several times but you pretend you it doesn't exist.
Lol! it might be time to pretend you don't exist and block your posts.

 

[bbyrd009]

It hasn't changed -->
Bible Search: caught up
Why continue to perpetuate that same lame strategy of ignoring the facts of the definition that the word & it's origins and useage as has been given multiple times?
The word is rapturo in latin, harpazo in greek and it means catching up. All this has been posted several times but you pretend you it doesn't exist.
Lol! it might be time to pretend you don't exist and block your posts.

Then you might ask yourself why none of those are xlated rapture, but instead "caught up," and go ask a black guy what "caught up" really means I guess.

Or go find me one "harpazo" translated "rapture" from Scripture, which we both already know you can't do, and pls stop tagging me unless you can do so, ty

 

[tzcho2]

Have someone do it for you.

Can't remember huh?
You have been given plenty of scripture evidence, with about 5 videos of teachings using scripture . Are you too lazy to watch them? or afraid they would discredit your nasty attacks on the brethren who believe in the rapture?

 

[tzcho2]

Then you might ask yourself why none of those are xlated rapture, but instead "caught up," and go ask a black guy what "caught up" really means I guess.

Or go find me one "harpazo" translated "rapture" from Scripture, which we both already know you can't do, and pls stop tagging me unless you can do so, ty

Another one who can't keep track of his own statements, or have we gone back in time?
When you have to keep repeating old comments that have been addressed several times, like you're just recycling them, as if stuck in a backwards time loop.
Any intelligent discourse on this topic has been lost a long time ago , if it ever existed in this thread to begin with.

 

[CoreIssue]

Around and around we go!
You: "You! You cannot make 1000 years longer than 1000 years! You are bad and non-literal and will cause all of biblical inerrancy to cease to be with your spiritualizing and evilness!"
Me: "Then how come you get to make 24 hours into 1000 years?"
You: "Because!"

We covered this.