Defending Homosexuality

[SkyWriting]

I attend a house church and I know all of the other members very well. There are no adulterers, alcoholics or divorces among us. It is not MY goal to have a purifying church--the Lord Jesus demands it. I well understand what a cult is and my house church has never had any of those aspects--you are mistaken. You "inform" me of nothing--it is you who are in danger. I doubt that you were ever a Christian.

(If you are removing all members from your group who have IMPURE THOUGHTS, then you are a cult church.)

 

[SkyWriting]

I remember Elton John riding with me [I was a limousine driver] after a concert in Oakland, CA back in the 1990's. I was unaware of his sexual preferences at the time. He gave me no reason to dislike him although I could not abide his music. [I kept my mouth just about the music.]

Later I carried Jim Nabors [Gomer Pyle] as a passenger for a week to and from his appearances at Fishermen's Wharf in San Francisco at the time. I had heart about his supposed sexual preferences but I was unable to observe anything in him to turn me against him. During my time as his driver he signed my son's baby book for me. At the end of that week he gave me a stack of his LP Albums. I did like his music.

We have all been [or are?] all sinners, but do some sins make it more difficult or even impossible for us to treat people with this kind or preference or problem as Jesus would have treated them?

I've enjoyed his some of his music, but never knowing what the words were.

 

[SkyWriting]

I remember Elton John riding with me [I was a limousine driver] after a concert in Oakland, CA back in the 1990's. I was unaware of his sexual preferences at the time. He gave me no reason to dislike him although I could not abide his music. [I kept my mouth just about the music.]

Later I carried Jim Nabors [Gomer Pyle] as a passenger for a week to and from his appearances at Fishermen's Wharf in San Francisco at the time. I had heart about his supposed sexual preferences but I was unable to observe anything in him to turn me against him. During my time as his driver he signed my son's baby book for me. At the end of that week he gave me a stack of his LP Albums. I did like his music.

We have all been [or are?] all sinners, but do some sins make it more difficult or even impossible for us to treat people with this kind or preference or problem as Jesus would have treated them?

Sure. I drink a couple beers or wine a week. As a result I cannot "reform" my neighbor drunk in a stupor, now in jail for drug sales. But I don't see that being a tea-totaler would help either. My best shot would be me attending aa meetings and inviting him along with me.

 

[CoreIssue]

I understand your aversion to sodomy. And it's valid in many ways. Sodom was a place ....well, lets use an illustration you are familiar with. Sodom was like a Roman orgy. The place had all the characteristics of a Roman Orgy like you've seen in the movies.

So.

Such people are referred to as "Sodomites."

So

People who conduct their lives like a Roman Orgy are given the term "Sodomites."

So

People who have Orgies and sex outside of marriage, and sleep with multiple partners are "Sodomites." All correct.

These are the individuals that scripture is really, actually referring to. "Sodomites" having sexual relations with multiple partners and orgies.

You can check the Greek Hebrew and Latin. "Sodomites" is the base word and idea.

Now.

Society has recognised that most gays do not want to live like that. They do not want to sleep around, not want to have orgies, not want to have sex outside of commitment, not want to give in to lust that ruins their lives. So WE invented a new word that describes these people that does not have the same connotations. This word does not include any reference to Sodom because theses people wouldn't want to live like that either.

The word we invented is "Homosexual" and it only refers to the fact that these people find close relationships with their own sex to be more fulfilling than with the opposite sex. And being a man, I fully understand 100% of the lesbian situation. I have met very few men who are not royal jerks. The vast majority of men are self-centered jerks who do not treat women with love and sensitivity as they would like. Myself included.

I have been close with only a couple men who are not family members. But I have no sexual attraction to men.
So I understand completely why some women would not want to put up with men and find their company to be too much to bear.
I don't blame them. A good number of Men are jerks who can't see past their penis in a relationship.

So I get the lesbian thing. I personally get it. Men are not good partners in intimacy.

So I'd never blame a woman for not finding intimacy satisfying with a man. And "sex" is not all that fluid for people. I had a crush on a redhead when I was a kid, and she had a strong interest in me. It never went far, but we REALLY enjoyed the interest we had in each other....and that craving interest in redheads has never left me. Lucky for me, my wife has chosen to keep that color tone going. Likely it has saved our marriage a couple times.

So i CAN UNDERSTAND THE fascination with a certain type of person that get imbedded in a person and it's very hard to ever shake it.

But
back to scripture. All the "Homosexual" references in scripture are directly to Sodom.

At no point in scripture are they referring purely to a person's sexual orientation. They are referring to sexual Orgies, or sex outside of marriage, or sex with both genders at the same time, or one after another, or multiple partners, or leaving your spouse for another person.

Re-read those passages. The passages often spell out exactly which of those bad sex actions it is referring to.


And we all agree that sexual orgies with multiple sex partners and multiple genders are bad mentally and physically.

But

Most gays do not want to live like that either. They just want one person to be intimate with and settle down and live life.

Why did I stop persecuting the gay lifestyle? Because after 20 years in gay neighborhood I learned...NOT to tolerate orgies....but I learned from personal experience that these are normal, non-orgie people, who don't even have big parties and sleep overs. They usually live lonely secluded lives. And if couples...they have friends over who sit in lawn chairs and chat around the firepit and laugh and live normal boring lives.

Maybe not. Maybe their lives are not as boring as they look. But these homosexuals are not Sodomites. They don't sleep around, they are not given to lust...(I don't even see hugs or hand holding) they don't drink excessively or do anything on the Sodom list. If they have sex...I'm not seeing it.

So, it's wrong to say they are not getting into heaven.

Most gays are not Sodomites and scripture is only referring to Sodomites. It was actually liberals that did a disservice to gays. They translated Sodomite into "homosexual" Because "sensitive" people did not like the term "Sodomites."

That was a mistake to be so "modern" and up-to-date because most Homosexuals are not into the Sodomite lifestyle, at all.

Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Read More...)

Romans 1:26-28 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Read More...)

Romans 1:26 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Exodus 22:19 - Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Romans 1:29-32 - Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, (Read More...)

Leviticus 18:1-30 - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (Read More...)

Leviticus 18:15-24 - Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she [is] thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. (Read More...)

Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

 

[Pearl]

Fortunately for me you are a sinner and thus not qualified to judge.
Have you checked that all your members have never had sex with more than one partner in their life?
More than one sex partner in the duration of your life, is an abomination to God.
Have any of those members even thought about another partner?

Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So now are you sure you have a pure group with no thoughts of sins? I'm guessing you have failed miserably to purify your group and they are completely average. If they have had abortions, they certainly wouldn't tell someone who would kick them out of your group. When "opening up" to you....they are pure as sugar sprinkled on pie.

What a pompous prig you sound to be Mr Quaker Oats.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Fortunately for me you are a sinner and thus not qualified to judge.
Have you checked that all your members have never had sex with more than one partner in their life?
More than one sex partner in the duration of your life, is an abomination to God.
Have any of those members even thought about another partner?

Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So now are you sure you have a pure group with no thoughts of sins? I'm guessing you have failed miserably to purify your group and they are completely average. If they have had abortions, they certainly wouldn't tell someone who would kick them out of your group. When "opening up" to you....they are pure as sugar sprinkled on pie.

You have thoroughly misrepresented what I said (that's called lying, by the way) and me (slander). I was not speaking of sexual history or other past sinful behaviors. There were former prostitutes and former greedy, swindling, tax collectors among Jesus' followers--Matthew, a former tax collector, even wrote one of the gospels.

Peter tells us that, "Judgment begins in the house of the Lord..." Since you say you are a Christian, I am indeed qualified to judge your false teaching. Flagrant sexual sin in the church is what the Bible is referencing in 1 Corinthians 5, when it tells Christians to expel those in open rebellion against God (which, in the same passages, is broadened to the "greedy", "swindlers", "idolaters", is a "drunkard" or "abusive", etc.). I don't know the secret thoughts of those in my house church and have no desire to know--they must police their own thought life. I have counseled a number of women with post-abortion syndrome--why would I ever want to expel them from our house church? I said, "purifying church" for a reason. None of us is there yet, but we are not defending our sin and making it into some kind of supposed virtue.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I "liked" your post... not because I agree with your thinkng, but because she deserved that kind of answer.

For what do I deserve some kind of disrespectful response, Willie?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

(If you are removing all members from your group who have IMPURE THOUGHTS, then you are a cult church.)

You are being ridiculous--when did I ever say that we are removing members "who have IMPURE THOUGHTS"?? You make things up and then you respond to what you have fabricated. Pathetic.

 

[CoreIssue]

You are being ridiculous--when did I ever say that we are removing members "who have IMPURE THOUGHTS"?? You make things up and then you respond to what you have fabricated. Pathetic.

He told somebody else he is Church of the Brethren, so this may interest you:
Peace churches

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

He told somebody else he is Church of the Brethren, so this may interest you:
Peace churches

I don't see the connection. Is Church of the Brethren one of the Peace churches? I didn't watch all the videos--do you have an objection to Peace churches?

 

[tzcho2]

For what do I deserve some kind of disrespectful response, Willie?

I always find it quite interesting to see who gives a thumbs up to some pretty nasty posts & often these are the same that like to accuse others of being judgmental, or unchrist like--how ironic.

 

[tzcho2]

He told somebody else he is Church of the Brethren, so this may interest you:
Peace churches

I'm rather skeptical to that claim.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I'm rather skeptical to that claim.

Me too. The Brethren denominations (there are several) I know, are pretty conservative--unless "Skywriter" is some other kind of "Brethren"? I would peg him as some kind of mainline liberal Protestant. They have gay and lesbian "pastors" in some of their churches.

 

[Willie T]

For what do I deserve some kind of disrespectful response, Willie?

Perhaps you forget writing this final sentence? Defending Homosexuality

 

[tzcho2]

What a pompous prig you sound to be Mr Quaker Oats.

Thanks Pearl, you hit the target and I learned a new word.

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't see the connection. Is Church of the Brethren one of the Peace churches? I didn't watch all the videos--do you have an objection to Peace churches?

When I was young large number in Michigan.

The brethren is one of three originals in that group.

They refused to defend our country.

 

[CoreIssue]

They also are very nonbiblical in a lot of ways.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Perhaps you forget writing this final sentence? Defending Homosexuality

To what specifically are you objecting? I spoke accurately about my observations--I don't see the convicting power of the Holy Spirit in what he posts, nor do I see evidence that the Holy Spirit is leading him to speak the Truth. He is engaging in false teaching and it should be countered.

 

[CoreIssue]

(If you are removing all members from your group who have IMPURE THOUGHTS, then you are a cult church.)

When you deliberately defend what the Bible condemns what does that make you?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Excellent.. I do believe some of us think OUR particular church is a place where we may as well put up a sign: "No Sinners Allowed!"

If you are referring to those of us who object to practicing homosexuals being a part of church congregations, you are mistaken. We all know that we sin from time to time. But our goal is to continue to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us to greater holiness. That is different from accepting into fellowship those who have no intention of stopping their open defiance of the Lord's stated prohibitions.