Oh don't be so serious all the time!No - @quietthinker should have been truthful.
Evidence - not poetry in a debate . . .
His image of you was quite creative....
(not that I agree with it)
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Oh don't be so serious all the time!No - @quietthinker should have been truthful.
Evidence - not poetry in a debate . . .
Yes BoL.Absolutely.
Also, just because one person who is a member of the Church has an opinion - that doesn't mean that this is what the Church teaches.
I'm sure you understand that as well.
The Jews have all kinds of books they use to learn their religion...One big problem for you, Phoney - the Jews NEVER promoted Sola Scriptura.
They understood that the Word of God was revealed ORALLY and in the written form.
Here are a few examples of this ORAL Tradition . . .
Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.
Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.
1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.
2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.
Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.
Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Keep studying, sparky - you'll get there, eventually . . .
At least we admit the problem without paying hush money to the victims or pretend we are the One True Church.The more you anti-Catholics whine about pedophilia - the more you need to be reminded that the problem is FAR WORSE in your own back yards . . .
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR
Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy
As for Jesus stating, "It is written" - HOW does this "prove" Sola Scriptura?? He was simply showing that Scripture is the written Word of God and is Authoritative - which it IS.
This list proves nothing but your own misunderstanding and interpretation of Scripture...and little wonder, seeing your low view of Scripture.I asked YOU to show me where the Bible lists the Books that belong in it and you failed - proving the fallacy of Sola Scriptura. Here are some examples of ORAL Tradition that was just as binding as Scripture:
Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.
Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.
1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-16 and Num. 20:2-13.
2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.
Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.
Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Finally - NOT everything was written down, as I have PROVEN to you by asking you to provide the Canon of Scripture - FROM Scripture.
Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to the Thessalonians put Oral Tradition ON PAR with Scripture:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, EITHER BY an ORAL STATEMENT - OR BY a letter from us."
He DIDN'T say, "ONLY" a letter . . .
So much hatred.At least we admit the problem without paying hush money to the victims or pretend we are the One True Church.
By Jesus stating it is written' both to satan and His human detractors it shows that God's Word stands supreme in spiritual matters.
Psalm 138:2 (KJV) I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
This list proves nothing but your own misunderstanding and interpretation of Scripture...and little wonder, seeing your low view of Scripture.
Let me ask you, on your so called 'oral traditions' how do you know they are truly from God? From demons? Or from man's imaginations?
For example, how is it that in the tradition of the true apostles who were beaten, hungered, left destitute and crucified...your phony successors live in luxury, travel in bullet proof vehicles and have millions swooning over them?
How is it that in the tradition of your church, there were before Vatican II, umpteen Roman Catholic communities who would be completely ignorant of God's Word, living in superstitions, never once hearing the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ but plenty about Mary, the saints, purgatory etc., because Rome would discourage private reading of the Scriptures? (I know, because I grew up in one of those gang infested neighborhoods and my wife was RCC)
How is it that in the tradition of your church, many were tortured under the Inquisitions and many Jews were killed or ostracized giving the name of Jesus a stench to to the Jewish nostrils every time they heard the name of Christian?
No, keep your stinking traditions, that are formulated after the doctrines of demons and mnen.
I will keep my traditions that have been handed down from the teachings of God's written Word.
P.S.At least we admit the problem without paying hush money to the victims or pretend we are the One True Church.
By Jesus stating it is written' both to satan and His human detractors it shows that God's Word stands supreme in spiritual matters.
Psalm 138:2 (KJV) I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
This list proves nothing but your own misunderstanding and interpretation of Scripture...and little wonder, seeing your low view of Scripture.
Let me ask you, on your so called 'oral traditions' how do you know they are truly from God? From demons? Or from man's imaginations?
For example, how is it that in the tradition of the true apostles who were beaten, hungered, left destitute and crucified...your phony successors live in luxury, travel in bullet proof vehicles and have millions swooning over them?
How is it that in the tradition of your church, there were before Vatican II, umpteen Roman Catholic communities who would be completely ignorant of God's Word, living in superstitions, never once hearing the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ but plenty about Mary, the saints, purgatory etc., because Rome would discourage private reading of the Scriptures? (I know, because I grew up in one of those gang infested neighborhoods and my wife was RCC)
How is it that in the tradition of your church, many were tortured under the Inquisitions and many Jews were killed or ostracized giving the name of Jesus a stench to to the Jewish nostrils every time they heard the name of Christian?
No, keep your stinking traditions, that are formulated after the doctrines of demons and men.
I will keep my traditions that have been handed down from the teachings of God's written Word.
I never denied we don't have a problem, I said "At least we admit the problem..."So much hatred.
I keep asking why but have never received a satisfactory answer.
The catholic church has made many mistakes....
BUT we cannot say that the church made mistakes...the church is made of stone.
MEN have made mistakes, they make power go to their head and do much harm.
I used to go to a church I liked,,,won't mention the denomination....
after the pastor had left and gone to a different state, we found out he was stealing money from the donations.
We all fall short...no matter which church you want to speak of.
It would behoove us to speak about God's Church...the Body of Christ and learn to love each other as Jesus taught and as disciples should.
I see you drank Rome's Kool Aid lie. The Jews wrote the Bible, not Rome. Rome has only given us a mixing of Church and State and a mixing of Christianity and paganism. They are today's Baal, follow them if you choose.P.S.
If it weren't for the catholic church,,,you'd have NO BIBLE, since it's that church that put the bible together.
If you don't think so,,,please provide support instead of more hated.
Nothing for me to study P,,,I know the whole story.I never denied we don't have a problem, I said "At least we admit the problem..."
Hatred? Read the history and you will see the hatred. Right now the RCC is in 'ecumenical' mode, swooning all groups together under the 'love and tolerance' umbrella at the expense of Truth.
They don't use Kool Aid in Rome.I see you drank Rome's Kool Aid lie. The Jews wrote the Bible, not Rome. Rome has only given us a mixing of Church and State and a mixing of Christianity and paganism. They are today's Baal, follow them if you choose.
Newsflash: All the Apostles were Jews. BTW, Jesus was a Jew.The Jews wrote the N.T.??? How do you figure that?
Or don't you accept the N.T. as bible?
Neither did the 'Roman' Catholic (an oxymoron) Church exist until that mixture. Maybe you are confusing the Early Church, which was catholic (universal) with the later Roman one which was not.That mixture did not exist at the beginning and everything was very nice.
It also doesn't exist anymore now...
You can start with 'sacerdotalism' and all their mediators for starters.So what exactly is the problem now?
How do they teach paganism?
I just don't see it...
NEWSFLASH:Newsflash: All the Apostles were Jews. BTW, Jesus was a Jew.
The early church was universal.....catholic.Neither did the 'Roman' Catholic (an oxymoron) Church exist until that mixture. Maybe you are confusing the Early Church, which was catholic (universal) with the later Roman one which was not.
You can start with 'sacerdotalism' and all their mediators for starters.
It was a dodge and nothing else.Oh don't be so serious all the time!
His image of you was quite creative....
(not that I agree with it)
Yes, but the point is that they never relied on Sola Scriptura - and neither should Christians.The Jews have all kinds of books they use to learn their religion...
Very respected books. I can't think of any of them right now.
I can't think of anything we Christians have like that...
maybe the collection of writings of the ECFs?
The ECFs relied on information passed down.Yes, but the point is that they never relied on Sola Scriptura - and neither should Christians.
The Bible refutes this man-made fallacy.
At least we admit the problem without paying hush money to the victims or pretend we are the One True Church.
By Jesus stating it is written' both to satan and His human detractors it shows that God's Word stands supreme in spiritual matters.
Psalm 138:2 (KJV) I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
This list proves nothing but your own misunderstanding and interpretation of Scripture...and little wonder, seeing your low view of Scripture.
Sooooo, because the Church has grown and doesn't look like the Church of the 1st century, you believe it is NOT Christ's Church??Let me ask you, on your so called 'oral traditions' how do you know they are truly from God? From demons? Or from man's imaginations?
For example, how is it that in the tradition of the true apostles who were beaten, hungered, left destitute and crucified...your phony successors live in luxury, travel in bullet proof vehicles and have millions swooning over them?
How is it that in the tradition of your church, there were before Vatican II, umpteen Roman Catholic communities who would be completely ignorant of God's Word, living in superstitions, never once hearing the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ but plenty about Mary, the saints, purgatory etc., because Rome would discourage private reading of the Scriptures? (I know, because I grew up in one of those gang infested neighborhoods and my wife was RCC)
How is it that in the tradition of your church, many were tortured under the Inquisitions and many Jews were killed or ostracized giving the name of Jesus a stench to to the Jewish nostrils every time they heard the name of Christian?
No, keep your stinking traditions, that are formulated after the doctrines of demons and men.
I will keep my traditions that have been handed down from the teachings of God's written Word.
It is utter nonsese to call the Sacraments "beliefs of their own".The ECFs relied on information passed down.
But when they picked the gospels and letters to go into the N.T.
they picked the ones they felt were correct...so they SHOULD have followed through and accepted only that.
The Catholic church went ahead and made some beliefs of their own...
for instance the sacraments. Now, I DO believe that the sacraments are biblical...and they're rather beautifully explained for those who don't know. But in doing this..they also created some problems, which I don't care to get into. They are paying the price for it these days,,,but too late, and they STILL won't change.
I agree with you very much that too many rely ONLY on the bible.
For instance,,,,they want to understand the covenants ONLY using the bible...this is pretty much impossible unless one wants to study them for a few years.
Ditto for the Trinity and other biblical concepts.
It's absolutely necessary that theology be learned from those who know...but this is very much rejected by some.
The bible plus some theology would be nice.
They were called Christians by name but the most were Jews by nationality, and all the Apostles including Jesus were Jews by birth. Definitely not Roman Catholics LOL.By the time the N.T. was put together they were called CHRISTIANS.
NOT Jews.
These Christians were killed for their faith...so let's not get that mixed up.
Umm, the Bereans when confronted by those who should have known (i.e. the Apostles) still checked the Old Testament to see if these things were so.It's absolutely necessary that theology be learned from those who know...but this is very much rejected by some.
Oh please. The early Church Fathers were all over the map,,,besides, in my book, they were not early enough and had their uninspired opinions. I'll stick with the 'earlier Fathers' like Moses, David, Jeremiah, Matthew, John, Paul, James etc.`.. at least their writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit and can be trusted.The Early Church Fathers attest to the ORAL Traditions of the Apostles on MANY doctrines, including Infant Baptism, the Eucharist, the Papacy, Church hierarchy, etc.
Protestant rejection of these Apostolic teachings only came about 500 years ago . . .
The Holy Spirit guides everything.It is utter nonsese to call the Sacraments "beliefs of their own".
And your desire that the Church "change" its teachings to accommodate the protests of anti-Catholics is ludicrous. This is precisely what has gone one within Protestantism for 500 years - constant change of doctrine.
The teachings of virtually EVERY Protestant denomination are at odds with the original Protestant Fathers.
By the way - the Church didn't "pick" the books of the Bible. the Holy Spirit guided them.