Soul and Spirit
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Thank y'all for helping me understand this better. I believe we are soul, spirit, and body since we are made in the image of God. But I don't believe it is an essential doctrine to argue about. I just personally believe it helps me understand my identity a bit more. Very neat to come across this!
101G
Well-Known Member
but a car has no gudiance, just running and going no where.
a person with a body have a spirit, is just existing. but no character, for the character and the emotions hold in memory of its guidance, (living) and experiences, meaning it's actions. our action or works, GOOD or BAD. this is what's Judge.
PICJAG.
Of course you are loved, and always accepted by me at least.... your apology is accepted although I do take some responsibility for it,,,I could have presented my views with more gentleness as in a softer landing...I have been told my other equal that tone is all important in a conversation....intentions are great although my execution still needs work at times...:)
Bless you,
APAK
Powerful, and beautiful!
If this is not the most amazing expression of God's love for us, that He would just make us clean and shiny and new, all things new, all things of God. And In Him there Is No Sin. We cannot sin. We are guarded forever from that, so much better than Adam.
He who is dead is free from sin. Just like Jesus died to sin once, and forever lives unto God, we likewise reckon ourselves dead to sin, and alive unto God . . . just like Jesus . . . for all time.
Romans 6 NASB
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Most amazing!
Much love!
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No Apak. I was already upset for reasons of this forum (not personal reasons)
and I just lost control.
You're always very nice and I appreciate your reply.
Thanks.
101G
Well-Known Member
well let God have the final word. God is Spirit right... and God is now in the Glorified Body correct. but do God have a soul? lets see, Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them". but yet God is a "Spirit".
Soul, H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (neh'-fesh) n-f.
1. (properly) a breathing creature, i.e. animal.
2. (abstractly) of vitality.
{used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)}
[from H5314]
KJV: any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Root(s): H5314
Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters". here Spirit is
H7307 רוּחַ ruwach (roo'-ach) n-f.
1. wind.
2. (by resemblance) breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation.
3. (figuratively) life, anger, unsubstantiality.
4. (by extension) a region of the sky.
5. (by resemblance) spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions).
[from H7306]
KJV: air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit(-ual), tempest, X vain, (whirl-)wind(-y).
Root(s): H7306
by examining the two definition above, we can see the difference.
the Soul is not the Spirit.
we can clearly see this in Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein". this is clear cut. the Soul is not the spirit, nor the spirit the soul.
hoped this made it clear.
PICJAG.
Davy
Well-Known Member
That is more of that same old Jewish traditional thinking that the Eccl.12:7 "spirit" just means inanimate spirit, like what animal and plant life has. That thinking tries to support the idea of our spirit being literally... dead at flesh death, for if that spirit means only some force that animates life only, then it means the individual no longer exists after the flesh dies! That is actually a teaching from occult paganism, that is what they believe.
In reality, our spirit inside our flesh includes our soul, our Id, our personality. Our spirit with soul cannot be separated, and it is what goes back to God after flesh death. This is what my Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 when He said to not fear those who can kill the body (flesh) but not our soul.
In Luke 16 with the story Jesus told about the poor beggar Lazarus and the rich man, He showed both died, the body buried, but they... were carried into Paradise in the heavenly dimension. The Jews with their tradition try to teach that Jesus was only giving a parable with that, that it was not based on the truth, and that because the Jews refuse to believe what He said about the soul continuing individual existence after flesh death (per Matt.10:28).
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Davy
Well-Known Member
And yet the soul continues its existence even after... flesh death...
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
Thus our soul cannot simply be defined by the 'breath' like the air we breath animating a flesh form.
Davy,,,you could believe what you want to.
There are some that believe in the dichotomy of man.
There are some that believe in the trichotomy of man.
Trichotomy makes more sense.
Do animals have a soul?
Do animals have a spirit?
It it's combined,,,how does it get UNCOMBINED? (separated).
Davy
Well-Known Member
Once again, that idea in red is not Biblical. It wrongly assumes that the 'soul' is only manifest when spirit is joined with flesh.
And still once again, I quote Jesus in Matthew 10:28 where He showed that is not true...
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
I believe what God's Word declares, all else is myth.
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
When Jesus gave the example of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16, He was describing how things really are.
2 Cor 5:1
5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
KJV
What does Luke 16 have to do with this?
And did you also understand the trinity from scripture?
Davy
Well-Known Member
Like Jesus taught in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Those are two separate and distinct operations, in two different dimensions of existence.
The pagan Greeks believed that one's soul was made up of a thing called nous (mind or intellect). They believed nous emanated from the sun's rays, like what the Egyptian god Aten was characterized as with little hands attached to sun rays coming from a solar disc. Their belief on the origin of the soul was from the material world, since the sun is part of this material world. Their belief system was the pagan ideology of old with assigning the substance of this material world to their god's makeup. The assigning of the 'air' (material air we breath) joined with matter (flesh) to define the soul, is that old pagan ideology.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Did you not understand what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 about our soul continuing to exist after flesh death?
Forget about what the Greeks believed.
Who cares?
Start thinking in terms of what the Christian church teaches.
This is a teaching that cannot be gleened from scripture.
Just like the Trinity cannot...
and just like Justification and Sanctification cannot.
Besides studying the bible,,,it would behoove you to also study
some theology.
Here's a sample of the trichotomy:
What's wrong with it?
I understand everything Davy,,,
If I'm asking you why you posted something,,,just explain why.
You had posted Luke 16 re what we're speaking of.
The Rich Man and Lazarus....
Why?
P.S.
Re Mathew ....
Are you aware that in the O.T. times certain expressions were used that we understand better today?
For instance,,,the O.T. spoke about the heart as if it were the soul or the spirit.
It is used interchangeably and has no particular meaning.
Today, we know the heart only pumps blood.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I guess it's needful here once again to remind brethren about the existence of two separate dimensions of existence that is taught of in God's Word. If one doesn't understand this, then they will tend to fall to the old pagan beliefs with wrongly assigning the things of this material world to our Heavenly Father's makeup.
Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV
One of the main laws of physics is that material matter cannot be created nor destroyed (not by man). It can only change its state (solid, gas, liquid, vapor). That is proof that matter, i.e., "things which are seen" did not create itself, i.e., "things which do appear".
It is proof of two different dimensions, the realm where God is, the invisible, and the material world where we exist. The fact that material matter exists... is proof of The Creator. Because material matter cannot... create nor destroy itself. Something independent and separate from material matter had to create matter. That in itself scientifically, reveals the existence of at least two separate dimensions of existence.
The Heavenly realm, where God's Abode is, is just as real... as our material world. In essence, it really is more... real, because from it is how God made this material creation we live in today. Thus it should be no difficult thing to understand that our makeup is not flesh only, but also a spirit, and that involves our individuality or person that remains intact even after flesh death.
Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV
One of the main laws of physics is that material matter cannot be created nor destroyed (not by man). It can only change its state (solid, gas, liquid, vapor). That is proof that matter, i.e., "things which are seen" did not create itself, i.e., "things which do appear".
It is proof of two different dimensions, the realm where God is, the invisible, and the material world where we exist. The fact that material matter exists... is proof of The Creator. Because material matter cannot... create nor destroy itself. Something independent and separate from material matter had to create matter. That in itself scientifically, reveals the existence of at least two separate dimensions of existence.
The Heavenly realm, where God's Abode is, is just as real... as our material world. In essence, it really is more... real, because from it is how God made this material creation we live in today. Thus it should be no difficult thing to understand that our makeup is not flesh only, but also a spirit, and that involves our individuality or person that remains intact even after flesh death.
