That I might attain

[Hope in God]

Lots of talk over the years has been on pre-trib and post-trib resurrection. There are even those who believe in numerous resurrections to come.

As I view it, a group of believers will be taken out of the body of believers, known as the Bride of Christ, ones who know the Lord intimately. In Scripture, they take the names of the elect (Romans 11:7), choice one (Song of Solomon 6:9), the residue (Zechariah 14:2) and overcomers (Revelation 21:7).

Paul sought to be in that special group, the Bride, I believe, when he wrote, “If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead…not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.” (Phil. 3:11)

It’s not like he was not certain he would be resurrected. He was, and the following verses prove so.

2 Corinthians 4:14, “ Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.”

John 5:28-29, “..they that are in the grave shall hear His voice and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

So, the whole idea of whether or not Paul would be resurrected was, to his mind, assured.

Yet, he wrote “if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.” These words, as I read them, relate entirely to reaching the level of the Bride. Being in the Bride ought to be spiritually coveted. It is a position for which we are to strive through the mortification of the deeds of the flesh, laying aside every weight, running the race, obedience, prayerful intimacy, etc.

The Bride will not be a great gang of believers, but a few, as I pointed out above.. (Deuteronomy. 7:7; Matthew 20:16)

Hosea 4:19, “And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.”

 

[Philip James]

The Bride will not be a great gang of believers, but a few, as I pointed out above.. (Deuteronomy. 7:7; Matthew 20:16)

Hello Hope,

Perhaps, but I think there may be many more in the 'gang' then you suspect..

Rev 7:9 After this I had a vision of a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation, race, people, and tongue. They stood before the throne and before the Lamb, wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

Peace be with you!

 

[Hope in God]

Hello Hope,

Perhaps, but I think there may be many more in the 'gang' then you suspect..

Rev 7:9 After this I had a vision of a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation, race, people, and tongue. They stood before the throne and before the Lamb, wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

Peace be with you!

Were these people, as you read it, Philip, the Bride or the Church?

 

[Helen]

Yet, he wrote “if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.” These words, as I read them, relate entirely to reaching the level of the Bride. Being in the Bride ought to be spiritually coveted. It is a position for which we are to strive through the mortification of the deeds of the flesh, laying aside every weight, running the race, obedience, prayerful intimacy, etc.

The Bride will not be a great gang of believers, but a few, as I pointed out above.. (Deuteronomy. 7:7; Matthew 20:16)

Hosea 4:19, “And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.”

Yes..agree 100%

 

[Philip James]

Were these people, as you read it, Philip, the Bride or the Church?

I belive the Church IS the Bride, that the Bride Is the Church!

That the Lord came and wed His people, Israel, as He promised He would do...

Oh and what glorious mercy, that we gentiles were invited and welcomed into that union!

Peace be with you!

 

[farouk]

Were these people, as you read it, Philip, the Bride or the Church?

I do see Israel and the church as distinct in Scripture...

 

[Philip James]

I do see Israel and the church as distinct in Scripture...

The Church is that remnant of Israel that were united to Christ.
She is the cultivated olive tree onto which the gentiles were grafted...

Does that mean the Lord has forgotten Israel according to the flesh? No!

They were blinded, cut off,for our sake.... And in due time they will be grafted back in...

See Romans 11..

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[marks]

Paul sought to be in that special group, the Bride, I believe, when he wrote, “If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead…not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.” (Phil. 3:11)

Hi Hope in God,

PHilippians 3
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

I'm curious on a couple of points . . .

being made conformable unto his death;
What would you say this means? What does it mean to be make conformable to Christ's death?

if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
What is it that Jesus apprehended Paul for, that he seeks to apprehend?

Thank you! And Much love!

 

[Helen]

I belive the Church IS the Bride, that the Bride Is the Church!

That the Lord came and wed His people, Israel, as He promised He would do...

Oh and what glorious mercy, that we gentiles were invited and welcomed into that union!

Peace be with you!

These threads are interesting aren't they....

I believe ...that The Bride is brought forth out of the Church , and the Mature Son 'out of ' the Bride ...each group smaller than the last...but ALL are still "The Church.".

Fun , ain't it.

 

[marks]

And I believe we are one in Christ, where there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, and where the one hired at the last hour receives the same salary as the ones who worked all day.

Much love!

It is fun! When everyone plays nice!

 

[Hope in God]

Hi Hope in God,

PHilippians 3
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

I'm curious on a couple of points . . .

being made conformable unto his death;
What would you say this means? What does it mean to be make conformable to Christ's death?


if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
What is it that Jesus apprehended Paul for, that he seeks to apprehend?


Thank you! And Much love!

Question 1: I imagine this would relate more to sanctification than either of the other two works of salvation. In regard to sin, it would mean that I would steadily gain power over sin's temptations, to be less attracted to the devices of the enemy and the lusts of the flesh.

Question 2: This too must relate to sanctification. I should be willing to cooperate with the Spirit's inworking to correct or improve, or perfect, or come to maturity all that is lacking in my faith. How I would apprehend is by dying to myself, living a selfless life, giving my body over to Him as a living sacrifice. He sacrificed for me, so I should be willing to sacrifice for Him in this life.

 

[Hope in God]

And I believe we are one in Christ, where there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, and where the one hired at the last hour receives the same salary as the ones who worked all day.

Much love!

It is fun! When everyone plays nice!

I would agree with this as it relates to justification, but sanctification is an entirely different work. We are all justified by faith no matter when we get saved, but not all of us, in this life, will have the time or inclination to add to our faith through our cooperation with the Spirit's inward working.

 

[Hope in God]

I belive the Church IS the Bride, that the Bride Is the Church!

That the Lord came and wed His people, Israel, as He promised He would do...

Oh and what glorious mercy, that we gentiles were invited and welcomed into that union!

Peace be with you!

Please persuade me through Scripture, Philip. Of course the Bride is part of the Church, but where does it state the Bride is the Church entire?

 

[Hope in God]

I do see Israel and the church as distinct in Scripture...

Yes, they are distinct, so much so that many evangelicals see them as being God's concentrated interest in an age gone by. Today, some teachers tell us, we are living in the "Church Age". The time for Jews to receive Jesus remains NOW, yet the ministry of reconciliation in these days is directed globally, not just to them. There was a time when God's only concern was for the Israelites, but those days have passed. Paul's ministry started this present day worldwide outreach.

 

[Philip James]

Please persuade me through Scripture, Philip. Of course the Bride is part of the Church, but where does it state the Bride is the Church entire?

I would counter, where does it state that it is not...

But I would happily explore this in sctipture with you. Here or privately..

To begin, I'd again point to Romans 11
And the cultivated olive tree...

Peace!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Helen]

And I believe we are one in Christ, where there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, and where the one hired at the last hour receives the same salary as the ones who worked all day.

Much love!

It is fun! When everyone plays nice!

So, what was the disciples understanding when they asked Jesus.." Can we sit at your right hand and your left in the kingdom." And Jesus answered , "It is not mine to give, but my father in heaven. "
James and John knew that the prize of the high calling of God , was all to do will positioning in the kingdom. I "see" Abraham 'up front and centre'...etc etc

Even in the spirit realm...Gabriel and Michael are Archangels...then there are the Angels...and there are also cherubims and seraphims etc etc...

I do not believe by read scripture that it shows that heaven will be just one happy glob of believers. But, that is just me.

 

[marks]

Yet, he wrote “if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.” These words, as I read them, relate entirely to reaching the level of the Bride. Being in the Bride ought to be spiritually coveted. It is a position for which we are to strive through the mortification of the deeds of the flesh, laying aside every weight, running the race, obedience, prayerful intimacy, etc.

Hi Hope in God,

If you would indulge me with one more question?

Do you believe as others on this site that this special bride that is to be, will be chosen by God, and we won't know whether that is us or not until we die?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I would agree with this as it relates to justification, but sanctification is an entirely different work. We are all justified by faith no matter when we get saved, but not all of us, in this life, will have the time or inclination to add to our faith through our cooperation with the Spirit's inward working.

Of course, my father in law, he committed himself to the Lord in his 74th year, 3 weeks before he died.

He, though hired in the last hour, receives the same pay as those who work the long hot day, that is right?

Much love!

 

[marks]

that heaven will be just one happy glob of believers. But, that is just me.

Helen, I love your way with words!

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, what was the disciples understanding when they asked Jesus.." Can we sit at your right hand and your left in the kingdom." And Jesus answered , "It is not mine to give, but my father in heaven. "
James and John knew that the prize of the high calling of God , was all to do will positioning in the kingdom. I "see" Abraham 'up front and centre'...etc etc

Even in the spirit realm...Gabriel and Michael are Archangels...then there are the Angels...and there are also cherubims and seraphims etc etc...

I do not believe by read scripture that it shows that heaven will be just one happy glob of believers. But, that is just me.

In the regeneration, the 12 apostles will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Also, David will be raised up to be king over Israel.

Who takes which position is up to God.

Now. If we take this exactly as written, that's just what we expect to happen. There will be a restoration, and there will be a nation Israel, with David as king, and the 12 apostles as twelve judges, one over each tribe.

If we decide we should read it another way, then we could say that 12 modern apostles will rule over spiritual Israel, and you'd better start obeying them. Or we could say that there will be some of the church ruling over others in the church. Or we could say, literally, whatever comes to our minds. Anything.

And the only way to sort it out with any authority, in my opinion, is by Scripture. But the only way Scripture will confirm or deny a view is if you take it exactly as written, according to the standard use of language. Otherwise, we remain in the land of one says this is symbolic for this, and another says no, it is symbolic of that. The Bible itself must be the one to say whether something is a symbol, and what that symbol means.

My POV, anyway!

Much love!