What is a Spirit?

[Heart2Soul]

I've seen that. She is one of the better posters here.

Thank you for your kind words!

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Heart2Soul is very graciously a 'she'... :)

Lol, thank you farouk...I used to have a male avatar and it really confused people.

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you for your kind words!

Welcome. Now don't blow it by showing yourself to be a mormon, like someone else did recently who I thought to be fairly decent. :

 

[Heart2Soul]

Welcome. Now don't blow it by showing yourself to be a mormon, like someone else did recently who I thought to be fairly decent. :

I don't have a denomination that I claim...only the Word of God.
Growing up we moved alot and whatever church had a bus to take us kids to church is where we went. Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, Church of God, and Assembly of God are all the various ones I attended.
I gained knowledge from all of them! :)

 

[farouk]

a creation of God. Our true selves. Our heart/conscience that is lead by our mind and flesh. It is why we have to renew our mind to lead our Spirits in an intimate relationship with God. Because those who worship must do so in Spirit and in Truth.

Prayer and the Scriptures are so important in the renewing of our minds. :)

 

[farouk]

Lol, thank you farouk...I used to have a male avatar and it really confused people.

Oh, YW. :)

 

[Stan B]

I believe that the soul/spirit is really one entity, unless a separation is brought about through the sword of the Spirit (Hebrews 4:12)

An interesting viewpoint, but if they are merely one entity, then there would be no purpose in designating them as two entities??

 

[justbyfaith]

An interesting viewpoint, but if they are merely one entity, then there would be no purpose in designating them as two entities??

Because spirit and soul are one (as a man and his wife are one flesh) unless they are divided by the sword of the Spirit (Hebrews 4:12).

 

[Stan B]

Because spirit and soul are one (as a man and his wife are one flesh) unless they are divided by the sword of the Spirit (Hebrews 4:12).

Interesting, but an alternate POV would suggest that the soul and spirit are already divided entities, the soul and the spirit. This passage does not suggest that the Word divides such entities. The Word does not divide and separate such entities, and does not pierce anything other than the already existing division??

"For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart

 

[OzSpen]

The Ezekiel 18 passage is speaking of the second death if a person sins. The second death of souls only happens at the end of the age of the ages.

Shalom

Jay,

Do you refer to Gehenna when you speak of the 'second death'?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Oz says >> "[To] What kind of death is that referring?

What kind of death is that referring? I haven't the slightest clue. I was not preparing a dissertation, but merely implementing a brief recollection in passing.

Stan,

I find it to be irresponsible to make a statement, 'The soul that sins shall die', when you don't define what death you refer to. Is it physical death or eternal death/damnation?

I'm not asking for a dissertation. That's your hyperbole. I simply want to know which kind of death you refer to. Isn't that a simple enough question that does not require a lengthy thesis?

Oz

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay,

Do you refer to Gehenna when you speak of the 'second death'?

Oz

No, the phrase "Mowt taamunt" in Genesis 2:17 should be translated as "you shall die,{Mowt) the Second Death {taamuwt}"

The pattern in Ezekiel_18:13 is similar: - "Mowt yumaat" and in Ezekiel_18:20 we have "taamunt" which is the second death reference in Gen_2:17.

I am not referring to "Gehenna" which I had to look up to understand what your question was all about. My understanding that references to the second death can be found scattered throughout the OT and NT if we look at the respective words used in those cases.

I usually explain Gen_2:17 as "you become a candidate to die the second death," which leaves the door open for a person to repent of their iniquities and gain life instead of dying the second death at the end of the Age of the Ages.

Shalom

 

[Stan B]

Stan,

I find it to be irresponsible to make a statement, 'The soul that sins shall die', when you don't define what death you refer to. Is it physical death or eternal death/damnation?

I'm not asking for a dissertation. That's your hyperbole. I simply want to know which kind of death you refer to. Isn't that a simple enough question that does not require a lengthy thesis?

Oz

I am a rather simple kind of guy, and the meaning to me is simple. The subject is the 'soul' and 'death' is the end of the life of a person or organism, and that satisfies my need, and for me, it is not in need of further investigation.

 

[OzSpen]

No, the phrase "Mowt taamunt" in Genesis 2:17 should be translated as "you shall die,{Mowt) the Second Death {taamuwt}"

The pattern in Ezekiel_18:13 is similar: - "Mowt yumaat" and in Ezekiel_18:20 we have "taamunt" which is the second death reference in Gen_2:17.

I am not referring to "Gehenna" which I had to look up to understand what your question was all about. My understanding that references to the second death can be found scattered throughout the OT and NT if we look at the respective words used in those cases.

I usually explain Gen_2:17 as "you become a candidate to die the second death," which leaves the door open for a person to repent of their iniquities and gain life instead of dying the second death at the end of the Age of the Ages.

Shalom

Jay,

In basic terms, what is the nature of this 'second death'? When do people experience it?

Gen 2:17 uses the imperfect tense, to'khal, with the negative to', this requiring the strongest possible prohibition regarding the fruit in the garden, 'You must not eat'.

Old Testament scholar, H C Leupold, states of Gen 2:17:

For the thought actually to be expressed is the instantaneous occurrence of the penalty threatened, which is also again expressed in part by the imperfect with absolute infinitive, "dying thou shalt die" = "certainly die." This at once raises the question, "Why was this penalty not carried out as threatened?" We answer: "It was; if the Biblical concept of dying is kept in mind, as it unfolds itself ever more clearly from age to age. Dying is separation from God. That separation occurred the very moment when many by his disobedience broke the bond of love. If physical death ultimately closes the experience, that is not the most serious aspect of the whole affair. The more serious is the inner spiritual separation.... [Oehler put it], "For a fact, after the commission of sin man at once stepped upon the road of death" (Leupold 1942/1972:128).​

Oz

Leupold, H C 1942/1972. Exposition of Genesis, vol 1. The Wartburg Press/London: Evangelical Press.

 

[OzSpen]

I am a rather simple kind of guy, and the meaning to me is simple. The subject is the 'soul' and 'death' is the end of the life of a person or organism, and that satisfies my need, and for me, it is not in need of further investigation.

Stan,

Gen 2:15-17 (NLT) states:

15 The Lord God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it. 16 But the Lord God warned him, “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden— 17 except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.”​

So God warned Adam/the man that if he ate of the fruit 'you are sure to die'.

The facts of the case are that when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit they did not die physically. This is how it is stated in Gen 3:6-10 (NLT),

6 The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too. 7 At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves.

8 When the cool evening breezes were blowing, the man and his wife heard the Lord God walking about in the garden. So they hid from the Lord God among the trees. 9 Then the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He replied, “I heard you walking in the garden, so I hid. I was afraid because I was naked.”​

They ate of the fruit and they did not die. They were so alive that they heard God 'walking in the garden' (Gen 3:10 NLT).

In your thinking, that makes God a liar because he said they would die and they didn't.

That's why a 'simple' understanding needs to pursue what God means when he uses 'death' as meaning several different things, not just breathing out last breath to end physical life.

Oz

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay,

In basic terms, what is the nature of this 'second death'? When do people experience it?

Gen 2:17 uses the imperfect tense, to'khal, with the negative to', this requiring the strongest possible prohibition regarding the fruit in the garden, 'You must not eat'.

Old Testament scholar, H C Leupold, states of Gen 2:17:

For the thought actually to be expressed is the instantaneous occurrence of the penalty threatened, which is also again expressed in part by the imperfect with absolute infinitive, "dying thou shalt die" = "certainly die." This at once raises the question, "Why was this penalty not carried out as threatened?" We answer: "It was; if the Biblical concept of dying is kept in mind, as it unfolds itself ever more clearly from age to age. Dying is separation from God. That separation occurred the very moment when many by his disobedience broke the bond of love. If physical death ultimately closes the experience, that is not the most serious aspect of the whole affair. The more serious is the inner spiritual separation.... [Oehler put it], "For a fact, after the commission of sin man at once stepped upon the road of death" (Leupold 1942/1972:128).​

Oz

Leupold, H C 1942/1972. Exposition of Genesis, vol 1. The Wartburg Press/London: Evangelical Press.

With all due respect to your reading and research, God's purposes was to always carry out the judgement at the end of time for the sinners of present earth. The Jewish trap is to try and resolve our understanding to an event as close as possible to the circumstances of the relevant passage. That is why passages like Gen_15:16 is linked to the prophecy Gen_15:13-14 because they could not perceive that verse 16 was talking about a return to the land of Canaan by some of Abraham's descendants 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac. The fulfilment of verses 13-14 actually happened around 670 years after the birth of Isaac with a return to the Land of Canaan around 40 years later, around 710 years after the birth of Isaac.

Genesis 2:17 was pointing to a time over 7,000 years into the future when "dying the second death" of the sinners would be implemented.

Ezekiel_18 deals with the consequences of sin and the fact that the person would die the second death at the appropriate time, at the end of the Age of the Ages. The chapter also tells us that if s sinner mark to die the second death, while he is still physically living, repents of his iniquities that God will forgive Him of his iniquities and that he will no longer die the second death that he was previously identified for and that he will live a life ever lasting is he kept certain protocols with respect to his relationship with God.

Isaiah_24:21-22 speaks of the judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth who are judged at the same time, that they will be gathered together here on the earth and will await many days for their final punishment.

God does not want anyone to die for their iniquities and even after their iniquities He will still attempt to draw them to Himself, like He has said He would do for the descendants of Jacob who had fallen into idolatrous worship. God's drawing of the Israelites to Himself is conditional, and require a repent heart's response to God's drawing of that person towards God.

When we sin, yes we will be destined for the second death unless we repent, and if and when, while we are still able to draw breath, we repent we receive the gift of life once more.

I personally do not hold to the understanding that the concept of the second death has been revealed more clearly as the ages have passed.

Back during the life of Abraham the Egyptians and Abimelech displayed an understand of the second death that we today do not seem to have as we have been able to dismiss the consequences of sinning and the fact that continual sinning without repentance leads to the second death. Our fate is decided at the time we breath our last breath, we have either chosen life or the second death.

Shalom

 

[complete]

I ask the question because some seem to think the spirit is just some floating around aparatus ,when in fact the spirit is our true selves.

In other words our spirit which is who we are will exist outside this flesh

Hello @n2thelight,

I have not read preceding entries, so if I am repeating what has gone before I apologise.

Looking up the phrase, 'the spirit of man', in the concordance, in order to find the words of 1 Corinthians 2:11, I found the following verses which are interesting, when viewed within their context:-

'The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD,
searching all the inward parts of the belly.'
(Proverbs 20:27)

'Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward,
and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?'
(Ecclesiastes 3:21)

'The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel,
saith the LORD, Which stretcheth forth the heavens,
and layeth the foundation of the earth,
and formeth the spirit of man within him.'
(Zecariah 12:1)

'For what man knoweth the things of a man,
save the spirit of man which is in him?
even so the things of God knoweth no man,
but the Spirit of God.'
(1 Corinthians 2:11)

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

'And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice,
He said, Father, "into Thy hands I commend My spirit:
and having said thus, He gave up the ghost."
(Luke 23:46)

Hello again, @n2thelight,

The Lord Jesus Christ is recorded as committing His 'spirit' into the hands of God the Father, Stephen also, in the book of Acts, committed His 'spirit' unto the Lord Jesus Christ:-

'And they stoned Stephen,
calling upon God, and saying,
"Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
And he kneeled down,
and cried with a loud voice,
"Lord, lay not this sin to their charge."
And when he had said this,
he fell asleep.'
(Act 7:59-60)

* Paul, also refers to his spirit, in Romans 1:9:-

'For God is my witness,
whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son,
that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; ... '
(Romans 1:9)

* There are other verses also, which use these words, such as:-
1 Corinthians 5:3-5; 1 Corinthians 14:14; 1 Corinthians 16:18' 2 Corinthians 2:13.

'All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes;
but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
Commit thy works unto the LORD,
and thy thoughts shall be established.'
(Proverbs 16:2-3)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Hello yet again, @n3thelight,

We know that when God made man, He, breathed into His nostrils the 'breath of life' and man became a living soul: and that the, 'breath of life' is also termed, 'spirit'.

Without the indwelling of 'spirit' or, 'breath of life', there would be no living soul. The soul itself not being immortal, for, 'the soul that sinneth it shall die', and as all have sinned, then all die. We are also told where the breath of life, or spirit goes at the point of death. It goes back to God who gave it.

'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.'
(Ecclesiates 12:7)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

See also:- Alive or dead

 

[complete]

'And they fell upon their faces,
and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh,
shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?'
(Numbers 16:22 & see also Numbers 27:16)

* God is the God of the spirits of all flesh.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris