What is a Spirit?

[farouk]

I even forgot about angels who took women and they birthed giants in the land. That would definitely suggest a physical body.

In Hebrews 1 angels are described as 'ministering spirits'.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Hebrews 1 angels are described as 'ministering spirits'.

I don't think that his statement is necessarily refuted by that.

 

[farouk]

I don't think that his statement is necessarily refuted by that.

@Heart2Soul is very graciously a 'she'...

 

[justbyfaith]

@Heart2Soul is very graciously a 'she'...

Oh...sorry, @Heart2Soul, my bad...

 

[farouk]

Oh...sorry, @Heart2Soul, my bad...

Anyway, she's posted a lot of really good contributions.

(Even though occasionally I might not agree; but this is natural...)

 

[justbyfaith]

Anyway, she's posted a lot of really good contributions.

(Even though occasionally I might not agree; but this is natural...)

I've seen that. She is one of the better posters here.

 

[farouk]

I've seen that. She is one of the better posters here.

She is, indeed...

 

[Helen]

I would tend to agree with most of which you have said. The spirit is eternal, but the soul is not necessarily eternal. "The soul that sinneth shall die."

I became quite intrigued with this a while back, when I observed a 90 year old guy at church, who although his mind was severely compromised, his wife would bring him to church with her every Sunday, probably because there was no one at home to look after him.

As I watched him carefully as we were singing hymns. He had no need of a hymnbook as he sang all five verses by memory. His memory was obviously not in his brain. It was stored somewhere else in his being, which I speculate was his soul.

Since then, I have checked out a number of such incidences on the internet, mostly in long term care facilities for people with Alzheimers et al. When it came to singing hymns, when the family sang hymns, the patient would soon join them and sing along with them, with a clear (mostly) recollection of the words!

I tend to believe that when the mind goes, knowledge is stored somewhere else within our being.

Wow, good post...I saw this too with my mother....she'd had minor stokes with impaired her brain...but she too could worship, even pray, and for sure sing along without seeing any words...it never left her even at 99 but her brain had betrayed her and she was greatly impaired.

Thanks for your observation...

So would you say that her body and brain had failed, but her soul was still in full function?

 

[farouk]

Wow, good post...I saw this too with my mother....she'd had minor stokes with impaired her brain...but she too could worship, even pray, and for sure sing along without seeing any words...it never left her even at 99 but her brain had betrayed her and she was greatly impaired.

It can be sad to observe when the mind is declining. It's often said that with an impaired senior, the appreciation for the Scriptures - if there - is about the last thing to go...

 

[Stan B]

It can be sad to observe when the mind is declining. It's often said that with an impaired senior, the appreciation for the Scriptures - if there - is about the last thing to go...

farouk, I have wondered about that. As a 77 year old, I have been engaged in the serious study of Scripture for the past 65 years, and while my brain is now slowing down a little, and needs a little prompting from time to time, Scripture is entirely different. And while some things are retained in my brain, I always feel that Scripture is different, something that is infused throughout my entire being (soul?). When I am presented with a Scriptural question, I am instantly aware of all the relevant Scriptural references.

My wife used to visit her 90 year old mother a couple times a week. Her mother would greet her and her sisters with big smile, but her mother didn't have the slightest clue as to who they were. My wife said more than once, "I never want to live to be that old!" And God honored her request. He took her home 4 years ago.

But as throughout our life together, God has ALWAYS kept us informed of His plan for us. In her first night in the hospital after discovering terminal cancer a few days after her 71st birthday He informed us that she would not see her 72nd. At the end of that first evening, we were given this passage of Scripture:

"You will be in exile for seventy years. But then I will come and do for you all the good things I have promised and bring you home. For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:10

While I fully trusted His plan for many reasons, one of the most important parts has been confirmed when I try to talk to her 'surviving' sisters. They are ranging from mostly incoherent to totally incoherent.

 

[marks]

Prideful envy/envious pride are kind of similar, I reckon...

I think so.

My thought is that the devil rebelled when he realized creation was about us, the people made from dirt, not the angels. I want to be in the congregation! I want to be like God! Not them, me!

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I believe that 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (kjv) tells us that the Holy Spirit supersedes such things as Alzheimer's disease, in that the gospel will be kept in memory by those who have received salvation, even if their brain is entirely gone...because that information does indeed reside in the spirit of a man.

 

[OzSpen]

I would tend to agree with most of which you have said. The spirit is eternal, but the soul is not necessarily eternal. "The soul that sinneth shall die."

Stan,

Grabbing a portion of one verse from Ezek 18:20 to try to prove your point is not responsible exegesis:

19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself (Ezek 18:19-20 ESV).​

We need to read the whole of Ezek 18 to get the context. When it is stated that 'The soul who sins shall die', to what kind of death is that referring?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I even forgot about angels who took women and they birthed giants in the land. That would definitely suggest a physical body.

H2S,

I wish you would provide Bible references for us to discuss to debate whether your statement is true or false. Are you referring to Gen 6:1-4 (NIV):

When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, ‘My Spirit will not contend witha]">[a] humans for ever, for they are mortal;b]">[b] their days will be a hundred and twenty years.’

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days – and also afterwards – when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.​

Or, do you refer to passages in Numbers 13:1–2; 21; 27–28; 32–33?

Do you interpret the Nephilim as angels? If so, what are your reasons?

Oz

 

[justbyfaith]

Just a guess...I think he is referring to Genesis 6.

 

[Stan B]

Stan,

Grabbing a portion of one verse from Ezek 18:20 to try to prove your point is not responsible exegesis:

19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself (Ezek 18:19-20 ESV).​

We need to read the whole of Ezek 18 to get the context. When it is stated that 'The soul who sins shall die', to what kind of death is that referring?

Oz

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:20
a reiteration of Ezek 18:4 "The soul who sins will die."

"When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness . . he will die." Ezek 18:26

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

Oz says >> "What kind of death is that referring?

What kind of death is that referring? I haven't the slightest clue. I was not preparing a dissertation, but merely implementing a brief recollection in passing.

And am fully aware of God's promise to save ALL Israel. When God rejoins His wife, it will be ALL of her, and not merely an arm, a leg and an eyeball here and there; ALL Israel!.

"Israel has been saved by the Lord with an everlasting salvation" Isaiah 45:17

"ALL all Israel will be saved; just as it is written." Rom 11:26

 

[justbyfaith]

What kind of death is that referring? I haven't the slightest clue.

It is talking about separation. Either of the soul and the spirit from the body (physical death), or of the soul and spirit from God (spiritual death).

 

[Stan B]

It is talking about separation. Either of the soul and the spirit from the body (physical death), or of the soul and spirit from God (spiritual death).

Although the Bible says "the soul that sins will die", I believe the spirit is an eternal entity, but that's just my opinion. But I don't recall the Bible ever saying that the spirit that sins shall die. So I have nothing useful to offer. I have only started to wonder about the difference between soul and spirit.

 

[Jay Ross]

Although the Bible says "the soul that sins will die", I believe the spirit is an eternal entity, but that's just my opinion. But I don't recall the Bible ever saying that the spirit that sins shall die. So I have nothing useful to offer. I have only started to wonder about the difference between soul and spirit.

The Ezekiel 18 passage is speaking of the second death if a person sins. The second death of souls only happens at the end of the age of the ages.

Shalom

 

[justbyfaith]

Although the Bible says "the soul that sins will die", I believe the spirit is an eternal entity, but that's just my opinion. But I don't recall the Bible ever saying that the spirit that sins shall die. So I have nothing useful to offer. I have only started to wonder about the difference between soul and spirit.

I believe that the soul/spirit is really one entity, unless a separation is brought about through the sword of the Spirit (Hebrews 4:12)