Calvinism

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Are the temptations of the "physical body" so great, Christians are forced to sin?

Most sin begins in the mind.

 

[Giuliano]

This is about the dumbest post I have read yet. We can know if we are saved. If we are saved we are one of the chosen.

We're still waiting for the Scripture that tells you you are saved already.

 

[Giuliano]

Most sin begins in the mind.

Are the temptations of the mind so great then that Christians are forced to sin?

 

[Giuliano]

Both are equally important. As you can see on this forum, there are many who say they are Christians but deluded about one thing or another. Therefore the written Word of God is given for both rebuke and correction (2 Tim 3:16,17).

Why? Will you go to hell if you don't expose the errors of others? Can you save others from hell if you correct them? Just wondering what you think.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Exactly, those who say they have no sin are deceived and the truth is not in them, a solemn warning to professing believers.

It is a faux pas and redundancy to say the lost (unprofessing persons) are here mentioned since it is a given they don't have the truth and nothing in its context is concerning the world at large. Instead the text is striking and solemn, condemning professing believers who say they're sinless yet are really void of truth and self deceived. John uses the pronoun "we" showing such an indictment applies to all who profess to being converted. In fact the entire epistle is examining evidences of true and false conversion.

Here is some commentary: "and the truth is not in us; it is a plain case the truth of grace is not in such persons, for if there was a real work of God upon their souls, they would know and discern the plague of their own hearts, the impurity of their nature, and the imperfection of their obedience; nor is the word of truth in them, for if that had an entrance into them, and worked effectually in them, they would in the light of it discover much sin and iniquity in them; and indeed there is no principle of truth, no veracity in them; there is no sincerity nor ingenuity in them; they do not speak honestly and uprightly, but contrary to the dictates of their own conscience."

The fact remains believers sin. This reminds us of what Christ said to Peter (and to us): John 13:10ff. The same author of the Gospel is here expanding this truth in this epistle. Some have not encountered Christ so believe they are without sin. John says these are deceived.

This is basic truth known by all believers. This points to the need for sound teaching which is often cast aside for the quick novelties of false teachers. Many people despise the Puritans and their teaching. They had more of a grasp on these portions of scripture dealing with remaining sin then any who oppose it here.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Are the temptations of the mind so great then that Christians are forced to sin?

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

[Giuliano]

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

You cannot answer yes or no to a simple question? Are the temptations of the mind so great then that Christians are forced to sin?

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And again you take things out of context. Typical. So by your standard we all go to Hell. Nobody is saved.

Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yeah, there is also zero Scripture to back you up on that. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The scripture you just quoted is another one of the scriptures you rely on that are about the unsaved. But you said I have no scripture to back me up. I do. 1 John 3:9. The seed of the Father is the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit guiding me, I will not commit willful sins of lawlessness; not even one. That doesn't make me perfect. I still have to deal with trespasses. They are unintentional and are not sins unto death, but rather sins NOT unto death. They have to do with slights we commit against each other, not willful sins of lawlessness against God.

Can you accept this?

cc: @Mjh29 (Do you have any questions why 1 John 1:8 is not about a Christian?)

 

[Giuliano]

The scripture you just quoted is another one of the scriptures you rely on that are about the unsaved. But you said I have no scripture to back me up. I do. 1 John 3:9. The seed of the Father is the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit guiding me, I will not commit willful sins of lawlessness; not even one. That doesn't make me perfect. I still have to deal with trespasses. They are unintentional and are not sins unto death, but rather sins NOT unto death. They have to do with slights we commit against each other, not willful sins of lawlessness against God.

Can you accept this?

cc: @Mjh29

I think too there is another way we can expect to "have sin." We can have bad thoughts and wrong urges; but that doesn't mean we have to act on them.

 

[reformed1689]

The scripture you just quoted is another one of the scriptures you rely on that are about the unsaved. But you said I have no scripture to back me up. I do. 1 John 3:9. The seed of the Father is the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit guiding me, I will not commit willful sins of lawlessness; not even one. That doesn't make me perfect. I still have to deal with trespasses. They are unintentional and are not sins unto death, but rather sins NOT unto death. They have to do with slights we commit against each other, not willful sins of lawlessness against God.

Can you accept this?

cc: @Mjh29 (Do you have any questions why 1 John 1:8 is not about a Christian?)

I can accept that once again you misinterpret. This does not say we will not sin. This is dealing with habitual sin. We do not make it our practice. It never says we will not fall into sin. So I stand by my statement, you do not have Scripture to back your position.

And if you think that my verse was really about the unsaved, that just shows you are reading into the passage. The book of 1 John is to break down false teachers, such as yourself.

 

[Giuliano]

I can accept that once again you misinterpret. This does not say we will not sin. This is dealing with habitual sin. We do not make it our practice. It never says we will not fall into sin. So I stand by my statement, you do not have Scripture to back your position.

And if you think that my verse was really about the unsaved, that just shows you are reading into the passage. The book of 1 John is to break down false teachers, such as yourself.

That's a really odd way of reading it. You read "cannot" to mean "can."

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think too there is another way we can expect to "have sin." We can have bad thoughts and wrong urges; but that doesn't mean we have to act on them.

Temptations are common to man. But the Spirit checks our spirit to not dwell on them. It is dwelling on them that quenches the Spirit and can lead you to actually act on a temptation and make it sin. James also says there to resist the devil and he will flee.

 

[Mjh29]

The scripture you just quoted is another one of the scriptures you rely on that are about the unsaved. But you said I have no scripture to back me up. I do. 1 John 3:9. The seed of the Father is the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit guiding me, I will not commit willful sins of lawlessness; not even one. That doesn't make me perfect. I still have to deal with trespasses. They are unintentional and are not sins unto death, but rather sins NOT unto death. They have to do with slights we commit against each other, not willful sins of lawlessness against God.

Can you accept this?

cc: @Mjh29 (Do you have any questions why 1 John 1:8 is not about a Christian?)

So... What you are saying is that in order to make heresy, all I have to do is completely change the person any given verse refers to?

Ok, awesome! Every verse about sinners now refers to everyone BUT me! There!

See, your logic is so flawed; it is all too easy to whip up a thousand new heresies just holding to your logic!

 

[Giuliano]

Temptations are common to man. But the Spirit checks our spirit to not dwell on them. It is dwelling on them that quenches the Spirit and can lead you to actually act on a temptation and make it sin. James also says there to resist the devil and he will flee.

Exactly. What is so hard for people to understand? I find when tempted to do something wrong to view it as a choice between good and evil; I think of something good to do instead of dwelling on the evil I'm tempted by. What the devil meant for harm can be used to remind us to do good.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So... What you are saying is that in order to make heresy, all I have to do is completely change the person any given verse refers to?

Ok, awesome! Every verse about sinners now refers to everyone BUT me! There!

See, your logic is so flawed; it is all too easy to whip up a thousand new heresies just holding to your logic!

I understand your confusion, that is why I cc'd you, because I knew you would have the same problem. But at least I'm not wasting my breath on you. You are becoming open.

John is a Jew, just as Paul was. They both write in Hebrew writing styles. 1 John 1 is written to include contrasts. Don't be thrown off by his use of "we" in John's case, or "I" in Paul's case. Most of the time they mean mankind, or even something in their own personal PAST. I will highlight the contrast in 1 John 1. It is between light and darkness. Darkness is someone who is self-righteous and has never repented. This is the Semitic writing style called "contrasts." Paul used it to compare the focus of Romans 7 against Romans 8. The LAW vs. the SPIRIT. Or Old Covenant vs. New Covenant.

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.


8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Since Adam sinned, we have inherited the fallen nature, so all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is what Jesus came to redeem - our nature, and gives us the power of His Spirit, the seed of the Father. 1 John 3:9. With the logic of some, those that no longer sin are deemed a liar, even though Scripture contradicts that teaching.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Exactly. What is so hard to understand? I find when tempted to do something wrong to view it as a choice between good and evil; I think of something good to do instead of dwelling on the evil I'm tempted by. What the devil meant for harm can be used to remind us to do good.

Even though my husband was abusive and finally left me for another woman, when I was married to him, and if I would see a nice looking man, I would actually vigorously shake my head (rattle my brains) and that little dizziness when I regained myself, was enough to stop me from "dwelling."

 

[Giuliano]

Even though my husband was abusive and finally left me for another woman, when I was married to him, and if I would see a nice looking man, I would actually vigorously shake my head (rattle my brains) and that little dizziness when I regained myself, was enough to stop me from "dwelling."

Well done there. Some people would say, "It wouldn't hurt to look." Then it's, "It wouldn't hurt to smile at him." Then it's, "It wouldn't hurt to talk." Next it's exchanging phone numbers, and after that a hotel room. Ha, where do we go wrong? Often it's by lingering on something and thinking it's safe to do a little something -- when really we're putting ourselves into greater temptation.

 

[Waiting on him]

Why? Will you go to hell if you don't expose the errors of others? Can you save others from hell if you correct them? Just wondering what you think.

This is basic truth known by all believers. This points to the need for sound teaching which is often cast aside for the quick novelties of false teachers. Many people despise the Puritans and their teaching. They had more of a grasp on these portions of scripture dealing with remaining sin then any who oppose it here.

2 Timothy 4:2 KJV
[2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.


Tecarta Bible

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well done there. Some people would say, "It wouldn't hurt to look." Then it's, "It wouldn't hurt to smile at him." Then it's, "It wouldn't hurt to talk." Next it's exchanging phone numbers, and after that a hotel room. Ha, where do we go wrong? Often it's by lingering on something and thinking it's safe to do a little something -- when really we're putting ourselves into greater temptation.

Absolutely. Looking back I can see how the Spirit was checking my spirit not to marry my abusive husband in the first place. That 13 years of suffering from my marriage is what brought me to a fear of the Lord, and I never want to disobey Him again. That husband is still the last man I kissed, and that was 2001! I know my weakness is impulsiveness. So I just don't put myself in any situations... Now, I shake my head to not flirt!