Stumbling Block verses

[Philip James]

This doesn't mean that God has the greater sin...does it?

God did not hand over Jesus to Pilate. Who did?

(If one thinks it was God that put Jesus on the cross)

"My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will."

How far above was it?

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God.

So then this shows my point. That he who turned over Jesus did so in sin...

Indeed.

not by the will of God...although God permitted it because of His divine strategy.

This makes no sense to me. If this is His strategy then it is also His will.

We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose

Everything that Jesus did was in obedience to the Father. Jesus was unblemished in His life. His life was an offering to God...

Indeed! Alleluia!

But it was the devil that put Jesus on the cross. God allowed this as a propitiation to the evil forces that held us captive. In Christ we are set free...BECAUSE there is no more legitimate claim to they who are in Him. The death of Jesus frees up God's entire creation. The death of Jesus was God's "offering" (payment) to the powers that be...

The 'powers that be' never had any legitimate claim on Jesus, or on us for that matter.

not the offering of Jesus.

Jesus' offering was to God...His obedience. The strategy was the Father's. God purchased His creation back to Himself through the redeeming blood of Jesus. God did not hold the world captive...the devil did. The world was "kidnapped" so to speak by the devil.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

So who did God purchase His church from? Himself?

From ourselves. We had chosen death, and were imprisoned in death. By His death Jesus destroyed the gates that kept us from God, and removed the chains that held us fast.
No one need remain in that prison. We but need to follow Him!
The ememy likes to convince us that the gates and chains are still there... But as always, he is a liar.

Remember how God offered up Job to the devil? God does this to defeat the devil and prove him wrong.

In the end it is always righteousness that triumphs. And that is due to not only the tactical victory of Jesus but also God's strategic plan that no one imagined could happen. If they had known (the evil powers) they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Indeed. Alleluia!

Peace!

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok, wait, wait, wait. I said nothing about "God's wrath," nor did I say God hated Christ's righteousness. You're not talking to me here, you are talking to others you have apparently had this conversation with.

coughcoughbscough, and while you dint say anything about this either, you dig a pit for others to fall into bro, sorry

Episkopos, if you think I can't handle talking actual scripture

i listed 4 or 5, do it if you like. Dont do it if you dont.

yall have a nice weekend

 

[bbyrd009]

That God offered Jesus death to the enemy is as repulsive (if not more so) as suggesting our Father was wrathful to the Son.

i kinda agree, and the stated purpose in order to draw all men to Himself is surely a valid one. However, epi maybe just perceives
Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani from a bit diff perspective. That Yah "offered Jesus' death to the enemy" is not too far off tho imo, and might be restated any number of ways Scripturally, living sacrifice, pick up your cross etc? But i mean lets admit that Yah did not forsake Jesus, first off

We were all dead, in prison, and Jesus came and broke the chains and prison doors and said 'come follow me'

Jesus died for our sins: 0 hits bro

 

[bbyrd009]

Um Mark, those are not my words...I think you mixed up your post.

im sure you do nanc, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

Episkopos, if you are referring to Post #3, I was talking about dealing with scriptures in their context. I used those words for a reason, specifically because of what many do, and you yourself did. This is EXACTLY what I have a problem with when it comes to your theologizing. You cheery pick a verse here and cheery pick a verse there, throw it together in a soup with all the verses taken out of context, and then start theorizing all over the place! I'm talking about dealing with entire passages IN THEIR CONTEXT.

I better go. You're starting to aggravate me, LoL.

hey HiH, pseudo-Enoch agrees with you bro, so now you got a witness ok
have a good one

 

[Nancy]

im sure you do nanc, yes

Can you find the original post where I allegedly said those words?? I have tried for a good half hour and cannot find it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Can you find the original post where I allegedly said those words?? I have tried for a good half hour and cannot find it.

ah, which words, sorry. "For ourselves, anyway" are my words, but i could dig back in your posts and verify them too if you like. Yes, you may as well have said them nanc. "Dont ever trust anyone?"

 

[stunnedbygrace]

imo it is more like maybe a perspective, of an opposer
we heard you coming and we knew that we were naked, so we hid
Who told you that you were naked? (not Me!)

I might be very vaguely understanding what you mean...sort of like...I have seen the enemy and he is us...Adam is Satan, I am Satan...but I can't truly buy it. I did wander that direction a few years ago though. I really did. Forgot all about it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I might be very vaguely understanding what you mean...sort of like...I have seen the enemy and he is us...Adam is Satan, I am Satan...but I can't truly buy it. I did wander that direction a few years ago though. I really did. Forgot all about it.

nephesh
nahash
might get one there
the ancients did not perceive snakes as evil

 

[stunnedbygrace]

well, and yet No Son of Man may die for another's sins will still be There after we are both gone, right
you are allowed to do whatever you like with it imo

Not sure what that has to do with me thinking the law and prophets speak of Jesus...

 

[Philip James]

i mean lets admit that Yah did not forsake Jesus, first off

Of course His Father did not forsake Him. (Pondering the depth of the suffering of our eternal Father will quickly cure one of that idea)

Jesus died for our sins: 0 hits bro

Rather, He died for us!

He himself bore our sins in his body upon the cross, so that, free from sin, we might live for righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed

Peace!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

that is speaking a redundancy wadr; iow the point that should have been made in pt 2 was not

Not sure I'm following you. I believe I see men saying He didn't put an end to the transgression when they insist that if we abide in Him we sin, when the vs says if we abide in Him we don't sin.

 

[bbyrd009]

Of course His Father did not forsake Him. (Pondering the depth of the suffering of our eternal Father will quickly cure one of that idea)



Rather, He died for us!

He himself bore our sins in his body upon the cross, so that, free from sin, we might live for righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed

Peace!

fine with me bro, go with that then
No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins shall die
oops
Bible Search: Jesus died for our sins
and have a groovy day k

 

[bbyrd009]

Bible Search: Christ died for our sins

 

[bbyrd009]

when the vs says if we abide in Him we don't sin.

diff subject, but ok, obv if we "abide in Him" we dont sin,
so iow a completely meaningless statement, practically speaking
if we say we have no sin, we are deceived and the truth is not in us
right

 

[Enoch111]

Of course His Father did not forsake Him.

You are blatanly contradicting Scripture. Why would anyone say such a thing when the Lord Himself confirmed that the Father had forsaken Him while He paid the penalty for all our sins?

Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Mt 27:45,46)

1. Why was there total darkness for three hours?

2. Why did Christ cry out with a loud voice if He was not forsaken during that time?

This is where human rationality must give way to divine revelation and spiritual realities. So kindly read and carefully review my OP on the Penal Substitutionary Atonement.

 

[Nancy]

ah, which words, sorry. "For ourselves, anyway" are my words, but i could dig back in your posts and verify them too if you like. Yes, you may as well have said them nanc. "Dont ever trust anyone?"

"but i could dig back in your posts and verify them too if you like." Okay then Mark, but only the one where I quoted those words..?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So then who did Jesus purchase, with His blood, His church from? (and all creation)... from whom are we redeemed from?

from whom are we redeemed from? From Vanity. Emptiness. Futility. unprofitableness. Which sums up the who. Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Sold ...sold ourselves into bondage and the lie and God purchased (redeemed)us out of bondage.

 

[bbyrd009]

I better go. You're starting to aggravate me,

but youre not offended at all right

"my love's like rhinestones
falling from the sky" huh
lol

glad you left w/o confronting them, all them, many, several vv ok
and you dont have to, ever, as far as i am concerned anyway bro

 

[Ezra]

This is not correct if you mean that He was our personal sacrifice. Jesus took on our sinfulness and evil upon Himself. Jesus suffered and died based on what we consider as peace.

We do things in error. We do things backwardly...self-interestedly.

But the death of Jesus purchased God's creation back to Himself.

I know that people want to see Jesus' death as a pass on sins.

your to far out there for me to reach
Romans 5:8

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

2 Corinthians 5:21

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

all through out the Bible there had to be a death sacrifice for sins.. in exodus they had to kill a spotless lamb apply the blood to the dorr post so the death angel would pass over them.. your teaching is way out of line