There Is No Purgatory. It Is Not In God's Character To Give 2nd Chances After We Leave Our Flesh

[shnarkle]

Hi Helen, hope you've had a wonderful Christmas with family and friends!
If I may ask a question about this? It seems to me that you are suggesting that God will, in fact, end up redeeming all mankind. And, while the doctrine of hell is hard, it is not unbiblical.
C.S. Lewis said of hell, “There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of our Lord’s own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason”
In scripture we see Jesus telling us these things:


“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. -Matthew 7:13–14

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -John 14:6

We see that Christ expects the majority of humankind to choose 'destruction' over everlasting life. And that the only way to everlasting life is to place our trust and faith in Christ as our redeeming Lord...which we know many, many people do not. Again, C.S. Lewis puts it rather succinctly:

“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’”

Those who continually choose to deny and reject Christ, God's very Son who went through so much to save us all, will, in the end, be granted what they desire...the ability not to worship and love God for all eternity, no matter the consequences that comes with.

This all sounds right, but I still think there's a whole lot more to it than this simple idea of acceptance. God's salvation comes through self sacrificial obedience to God, but I know of very few who are willing to go down that road. Most will balk immediately, and claim that there is no way God is requiring that we sacrifice much of anything from our lives. The simple fact is that this is literally what Jesus' name means, but instead of looking at the explicit meaning of words, we look at the person. Instead of looking at his teaching, we think we can have the truth without following his teachings. It's preposterous.

Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die to this fallen damned world that is quickly passing away. That doesn't add up. There are a whole lot of professing Christians, but not very many confessing Christians.

 

[Ezra]

God's salvation comes through self sacrificial obedience to God,

the self sacrifice comes more after than before .yes it takes a lot of obedience n our walk e will fail but we still have to put forth a effort .romans 12:1-2 is a big job

 

[Naomi25]

This all sounds right, but I still think there's a whole lot more to it than this simple idea of acceptance. God's salvation comes through self sacrificial obedience to God, but I know of very few who are willing to go down that road. Most will balk immediately, and claim that there is no way God is requiring that we sacrifice much of anything from our lives. The simple fact is that this is literally what Jesus' name means, but instead of looking at the explicit meaning of words, we look at the person. Instead of looking at his teaching, we think we can have the truth without following his teachings. It's preposterous.

Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die to this fallen damned world that is quickly passing away. That doesn't add up. There are a whole lot of professing Christians, but not very many confessing Christians.

Well...I think calling it simple may be overreaching a little. There's nothing simple about the reality of sin and exactly what it is in the face of a Holy God. I think people tend to overlook the fact that sin is cosmic treason. Sin, in any of us, causes us to be incapable to stand before God. And it took Christs death, and all that happened on the cross, to meet the atonement of this treason. Sin is not just some 'oopsie' that doesn't mean that much in the scale of things. And if it is that bad, and if it remains in some not paid for, then to let it go on unrepentant....that would be the real evil and injustice.
So...no....not simple at all.

Also...you say that "God's salvation comes through self sacrificial obedience to god." I would suggest that you are putting the cart before the horse here. Scripture teaches that salvation comes from Christ alone through faith alone. Period. The self-sacrificial obedience comes after that in response to the grace and in conjunction with the help of the Spirit. You are right in that it is clearly taught, it's just that it's not taught as a way to salvation. That would make it a works based salvation.

 

[Ezra]

Also...you say that "God's salvation comes through self sacrificial obedience to god." I would suggest that you are putting the cart before the horse here. Scripture teaches that salvation comes from Christ alone through faith alone. Period. The self-sacrificial obedience comes after that in response to the grace and in conjunction with the help of the Spirit. You are right in that it is clearly taught, it's just that it's not taught as a way to salvation. That would make it a works based salvation.

amen

 

[shnarkle]

Well...I think calling it simple may be overreaching a little.

You're entitled to your thoughts, but when someone says: "the only way to everlasting life is to place our trust and faith in Christ as our redeeming Lord....Those who continually choose to deny and reject Christ,..."

This is too vague and simple to be of any use to the unbeliever. I see this all the time. The unbeliever has no way to decipher your cryptic sayings which are only meaningful to you, and whoever else has this inside information that only you understand. So yes it is too simple to be useful for anyone outside your group of initiates.

Also...you say that "God's salvation comes through self sacrificial obedience to god." I would suggest that you are putting the cart before the horse here. Scripture teaches that salvation comes from Christ alone through faith alone. Period.

True, and Christ is God's salvation. Again, this is literally what Jesus' name means.

The self-sacrificial obedience comes after that in response to the grace and in conjunction with the help of the Spirit.

I know what you're trying to say, but the fact is that Christ comes first. It is Christ's selfless sacrificial life of obedience followed by his selfless atoning sacrifice that must come first. No one can respond without first having the faith of Christ implanted in them. The carnal mind cannot respond at all. The carnal flesh is dead in sin, and can never respond to the gospel message.

You are right in that it is clearly taught, it's just that it's not taught as a way to salvation. That would make it a works based salvation.

It is the only way to salvation. It is exclusively in, with, and through the work of Christ alive. The new creation lives in, with, and through Christ alone. It is Christ's faith alone that responds to the gospel message. It is the faith OF Christ, not of ourselves, lest anyone boast. The gospel message is a works based salvation. The work of Christ alone by his faith alone, and it is his faith operating in the new creature that responds to the gospel message.

 

[Ezra]

You're entitled to your thoughts, but when someone says: "the only way to everlasting life is to place our trust and faith in Christ as our redeeming Lord....Those who continually choose to deny and reject Christ,..."

This is too vague and simple to be of any use to the unbeliever. I see this all the time. The unbeliever has no way to decipher your cryptic sayings which are only meaningful to you, and whoever else has this inside information that only you understand. So yes it is too simple to be useful for anyone outside your group of initiates.




True, and Christ is God's salvation. Again, this is literally what Jesus' name means.



I know what you're trying to say, but the fact is that Christ comes first. It is Christ's selfless sacrificial life of obedience followed by his selfless atoning sacrifice that must come first. No one can respond without first having the faith of Christ implanted in them. The carnal mind cannot respond at all. The carnal flesh is dead in sin, and can never respond to the gospel message.



It is the only way to salvation. It is exclusively in, with, and through the work of Christ alive. The new creation lives in, with, and through Christ alone. It is Christ's faith alone that responds to the gospel message. It is the faith OF Christ, not of ourselves, lest anyone boast. The gospel message is a works based salvation. The work of Christ alone by his faith alone, and it is his faith operating in the new creature that responds to the gospel message.

through faith is right.. how much faith does it take? by some chance are you reformed theology ?

 

[historyb]

the Church is the Body of Christ Christ is the head
2 Timothy 3:16

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”


For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

we use the word of God as our guide scripture is a BIG part combined with the Holy SPIRIT

Never says to use the Bible alone. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, with Bible alone folk they are there own pillar. The Bible alone is a heresy never found in the early Church. Christ did not found Scripture, He founded a Church it was man who wants to not follow what Christ wants but what he himself wants. Chiefly to go by his/her own idea of what the Bible says.

 

[Ezra]

Never says to use the Bible alone. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, with Bible alone folk they are there own pillar. The Bible alone is a heresy never found in the early Church. Christ did not found Scripture, He founded a Church it was man who wants to not follow what Christ wants but what he himself wants. Chiefly to go by his/her own idea of what the Bible says.

ok mr church prove your purgatory w/o scripture... the moment you do it will be your theory not inspired

The Bible alone is a heresy never found in the early Church.

you posted one thing right heresy i showed you where the apostle paul wrote ALL scripture .but since you reject solo scripture we have no need to go any farther.. dos your pastor preach w/o scriptures ?
talk about being carnal

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

this is carnal ..but then again you dont use scripture ..not only is this carnal but its false doctrine

 

[shnarkle]

Never says to use the Bible alone. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, with Bible alone folk they are there own pillar. The Bible alone is a heresy never found in the early Church. Christ did not found Scripture, He founded a Church it was man who wants to not follow what Christ wants but what he himself wants. Chiefly to go by his/her own idea of what the Bible says.

God also gave us a brain. Paul points out that the bible provides us with sound doctrine, and anything that goes against those sound doctrines is going to necessarily be suspect. We know that the "mystery of iniquity" had already begun to infiltrate the church when Paul was still alive, so claiming authority isn't going to cut it. One has to have a defense for their faith, and that doesn't come from a heretical church. It comes from the Spirit.

 

[Philip James]

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

Bingo

 

[Enoch111]

God is Holy and nothing dirty can be in His sight that is why our soul would want to be clean

True. But no soul is sent to Purgatory. There is ZERO support for this fanciful idea in the Bible. I am just surprised that anyone can rightly promote Purgatory or believe in it.

So what you should really be doing is digging into the Word of God, not relying on your church traditions.

 

[Ezra]

Bingo

bingo what?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No one can respond without first having the faith of Christ implanted in them. The carnal mind cannot respond at all. The carnal flesh is dead in sin, and can never respond to the gospel message.

“No one can respond without first having the faith of Christ planted in them.” How does the faith of Christ get planted in them?

It is the only way to salvation. It is exclusively in, with, and through the work of Christ alive. The new creation lives in, with, and through Christ alone. It is Christ's faith alone that responds to the gospel message. It is the faith OF Christ, not of ourselves, lest anyone boast. The gospel message is a works based salvation. The work of Christ alone by his faith alone, and it is his faith operating in the new creature that responds to the gospel message.

Agree. a lot of wisdom in what you said above. “It is Christ's faith alone that responds to the gospel message. It is the faith OF Christ, not of ourselves, lest anyone boast.”

 

[shnarkle]

“No one can respond without first having the faith of Christ planted in them.” How does the faith of Christ get planted in them?

By election. Paul goes into great detail explaining that we don't elect God; he elects us. Christ says the same thing. God's sovereign will and purpose cannot be thwarted. God will find each and every sheep that needs to be found.

Agree. a lot of wisdom in what you said above. “It is Christ's faith alone that responds to the gospel message. It is the faith OF Christ, not of ourselves, lest anyone boast.”

Yes, only Christ can respond to the gospel message. I used to think there was a verse in one of Paul's letters where he says: "There is only Christ". That verse isn't there, but that idea certainly is.

 

[Helen]

Sometimes I really wonder which part of The Love of God people don't like.

 

[Ezra]

By election. Paul goes into great detail explaining that we don't elect God; he elects us

your calvinist/reformed correct ?

 

[Ezra]

Sometimes I really wonder which part of The Love of God people don't like.

as in what?

 

[Nondenom40]

Forgive me if I step on some toes. It's saturday night and I feel like sharing some truths. God decided to withdraw his hand from holding Lucifer (before he sinned). See...Lucifer was only PERFECT because of God and God holding him in perfection. God is perfect, Just and Holy! Lucifer was perfect in every way. Then God gave him free reign over his conscious. Free to choose and do as he would like. Lucifer became prideful. Lucifer said, "Let us become LIKE God." Notice, Lucifer knew no one could ever become better than God. So he settled, "Let us become Like God." This was unforgivable. No chances of ever returning to God's perfect Love and Grace. We know the rest of the story. God already knew what was gonna happen and was gonna use this situation with Lucifer to show the depths of his LOVE. There are no second chances with God, spiritually apart from our flesh. Humans are fortunate to have multiple chances to choose God. His Grace is Amazing. When it comes to purgatory, I sadfully say, this does not conform with God's Love, it is not justified by God's character. One chance only to choose. Those you pray for, that you say are in purgatory, that have left this world have either accepted Christ (God) as their Savior or haven't. No second chances after your spirit leaves your physical body. If they haven't chosen Jesus Christ as their Savior, they are forever lost to their Guilt and apart from God's LOVE FOREVER. So please don't preach purgatory, it just leads more unbelieving humans to a false hope!

#ThereAreNoSecondChancesNoPurgatory
#ChooseJesusNowWhileYouStillCan
#GetToKnowJesusHisFathersHouseHasManyMansions
#IfGodGaveSecondChancesHeWouldForegiveLucifer

The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!
Eternity is a Very long Time!
Satan Loves Distractions!

Purgatory is worse than this. In ccc 1475 you expiate your own sin in purgatory. Expiation involves sacrifice and actually atonement. So according to catholicism you can leave this world with sin not atoned for by Jesus, and go to purgatory atone for your own sin then go on to heaven. Jesus isnt really necessary in catholicism since you can atone for your own sin and go to heaven. This of course goes against multiple biblical principals. This is the fruit of removing scripture as your highest/final standard and giving it to sinful power hungry men.

 

[historyb]

God also gave us a brain. Paul points out that the bible provides us with sound doctrine, and anything that goes against those sound doctrines is going to necessarily be suspect. We know that the "mystery of iniquity" had already begun to infiltrate the church when Paul was still alive, so claiming authority isn't going to cut it. One has to have a defense for their faith, and that doesn't come from a heretical church. It comes from the Spirit.

We will have to disagree

 

[historyb]

True. But no soul is sent to Purgatory. There is ZERO support for this fanciful idea in the Bible. I am just surprised that anyone can rightly promote Purgatory or believe in it.

So what you should really be doing is digging into the Word of God, not relying on your church traditions.

We will have to disagree