The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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Truther

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People have declared MANY things in the name of the King throughout history.

They didn’t have to say His proper name to understand WHO was being talked about.
His Authority spoke for itself.
I see, you come in the name of Jesus and let folks guess which name you come in.

Kinda reminds me of the church of Christ silent baptism. They kinda figure words don’t matter since God reads their minds.

This eliminates the name used in Acts 3 for healing the lame man. Maybe Peter just thought Jesus name and the Pharisees read his mind, huh?
 

Truther

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The Son always has been and always will be God.
Still doesn’t make Him the Father or Holy Spirit.

That’s where YOU’RE confused.
Even when he was a sperm cell mating with his mothers egg?
 

BreadOfLife

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You just debunked Rev 13:8.

It call Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You say he wasn’t slain from the foundation of the world.

I think I will stick with the book, but thanks again.
Like I said – this verse shows that His sacrifice is ETERNAL and that God is OUTSIDE of time.

Your understanding of Scriptural language is pathetic . . .
 

Truther

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Nobody said He did.
However, there are some things that the Father knows that the Son is not privy to.

Regarding His Return:
Matt. 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
You just made the case that the persons in your Godhead think individually.

Three forms of consciousness in one being.

Terrifying
 

Truther

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Like I said – this verse shows that His sacrifice is ETERNAL and that God is OUTSIDE of time.

Your understanding of Scriptural language is pathetic . . .
No Rev 13:8 calls him the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You say “nay”.

Not cool
 

BreadOfLife

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No Rev 13:8 calls him the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You say “nay”.
Not cool
Your Scriptural illiteracy is sad.

Ot's no WONDER you're so confused . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You just made the case that the persons in your Godhead think individually.

Three forms of consciousness in one being.

Terrifying
STUDY your Bible - don't just read it.

Now, explain Matt.24:36 . . .
 

Truther

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STUDY your Bible - don't just read it.

Now, explain Matt.24:36 . . .
Easy, Jesus was a man and his God had the knowledge he learned.
I hope you don’t think one God was smarter than the other???
 

user

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Well, you sound sincere – but a bit confused.

Contrary to what you just stated - NOWHERE in all of Scripture do we see a baptism happening from start to finish, so we don’t really know WHAT words they used. We can only surmise that they said, “I Baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", as Jesus commanded in Matt. 28:19.

I’m not saying this to be snarky or combative – it’s just a fact.
The ONLY place we see detailed instructions during the time of the Apostles on HOW to baptize is in The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) – which was written before some of the gospels. I posted this several pages back – and neither of you addressed it.

Here is it again:

The Didache - Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, [Matthew 28:19] in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.


NOTHING in Scripture comes close to the detailed instructions of this historical document.


Only the Bible is God's Word, being the inspired Word of God. Other writings are helpful, but they are not the Bible.

If we look at every scripture whereby an actual baptism is taking place, we will see the preponderance of scriptural evidence show full immersion into the water and having the name of Jesus pronounced over them (with some variation of the Lord Jesus).

Note: Matthew 28:19 is not an actual baptism taking place, and a word/phrase search reveals that is the only place in all the Bible whereby the phrase "the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" is found. WHY? ...

The following are three different accounts of the very same subject matter, which further shows us that the ONE ETERNAL Spirit functions as Father, Son AND Holy Ghost...


Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
[10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
[13] And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
[14] Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
[15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.


God Bless!
 

Truther

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He didn't.
YOU simply don't get what he meant . . .

Keep studying - you'll get there . . .
I get what Jesus said and in turn what Peter knew Jesus meant.
You don’t get what Peter knew Jesus meant.
Think a little harder
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus is God – period.
HOWEVER - He’s NOT the Father and He’s NOT the Holy Spirit.

If you don’t believe this – you are NOT a Trinitarian

I don't believe this...and I am a Trinitarian. Look deeper...

EPh 2:9 therefore does exclude works of merit but does NOT exclude obedience to the will of God for ALL the disobedient will be lost.

We are not saved by works/obedience. We are saved by an attitude of faith which is an inclination towards obedience.

No – Peter would have baptized as his Lord commanded:
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Just because you’re disobedient – doesn’t mean that Peter was . . .

If Peter was obedient....why did he baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins instead of Jesus' prescribed formula in Matthew 28:19?

Like I said – this verse shows that His sacrifice is ETERNAL and that God is OUTSIDE of time.

Your understanding of Scriptural language is pathetic . . .

Your Scriptural illiteracy is sad.

Ot's no WONDER you're so confused . . .


These two quotes make me think of some verses in Matthew 7...

Mat 7:15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19, Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Did you know repentance is a work?

I would tend to disagree with that statement; since repentance is unto salvation; and salvation is "not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
 
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BreadOfLife

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Easy, Jesus was a man and his God had the knowledge he learned.
I hope you don’t think one God was smarter than the other???
Jesus is also God

Now, explain the Verse. . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Only the Bible is God's Word, being the inspired Word of God. Other writings are helpful, but they are not the Bible.

If we look at every scripture whereby an actual baptism is taking place, we will see the preponderance of scriptural evidence show full immersion into the water and having the name of Jesus pronounced over them (with some variation of the Lord Jesus).

Note: Matthew 28:19 is not an actual baptism taking place, and a word/phrase search reveals that is the only place in all the Bible whereby the phrase "the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" is found. WHY? ...

The following are three different accounts of the very same subject matter, which further shows us that the ONE ETERNAL Spirit functions as Father, Son AND Holy Ghost...

Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
[10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
[13] And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
[14] Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
[15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
God Bless!
Show me ONE example in the NT of a detailed Baptim.

You can't find one because it DOESN'T exist.