Do I Have To Go To Church?

[mjrhealth]

But again, HOW is it you can have any true knowledge as to the state of every member of the body...that which makes up the Church?
I suspect the problem here is terminology. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but...you seem to see that the gatherings of men within buildings is "mans church". Whereas 'Christs church' is the body of true believers?
The problem with that is, you've added an extra 'church' where there is none. There is one Church...one body...those people who ARE believers, who ARE saved and born again in Christ. There is no question if they have Christ or not, as they cannot be part of the body if they have not had their sins forgiven by him.
The only question is....should these believers...this body, meet together regularly to share fellowship? And, when they do, will other people who are NOT legally part of this body, be there as well. The answer is 'yes'. And one of the biggest reasons for this is...we invite them. I know there is many ways to share the gospel with unbelievers, but inviting them into fellowship is a big part of it.
What about the wolves, you say? Those who purposely strive to drive wedges in between this fellowship, to split the church. Well, Christ told us they would be with us. He told us they would be with us, and would also 'go out from us, proving that they were not really of us'. When we, as the church body stand strong in the principles and foundings of our faith, we have the strength and spiritual power of God to overthrow these wolves. But, of course it is much easier to do so when standing together. There is nothing a wolf likes more than an easy prey of one or two.

I suppose what I'm driving at is this: Yes, I do recognize your freedom to chose as you will. But I think you have erred in how you see 'the Church', and that has thrown you off, somewhat. And I do think you need to be very, very careful in calling the Church names. Because, IF the bible does indeed teach that there is only one Church, one body, and that all believers...you, who avoids meeting, and me, who attends, are part of this body...then you are calling most of this body, this bride, a harlot. So...I just advise caution and a little grace. Call out the wolves, by all means. But try recognizing that many....most! of the people gathering together to worship Christ, do so because they love him, not because they are bound by man's 'harlot' religion.

No there is not one church there are many, but there is one "true Church", which do you belong to, the catholic, protestant, JW,s, SDa CCOC cclc mormans or the other gazziolion, which is your flavour.

We as Christians dont need "churches", in China it is n homes, in factories where ever they can find a safe place it isnt a church it is a gathering of believers, has no title just people who love the Lord and want to grow, If you cant see what "church: is you are missing the boat.

As for believers, my dad was telling me about my sister who is a christian, who had bible studies at home, at one of the meeting one of teh ladies got up and said, she had to leave, she is a with and needs to go pray against the christians. Church is filled with them and you wont know unless they tell you. You only see the outside, God can see the inside and without spiritual discernment. they all look just the same, the sheep and the Goats, the wheat and the tares. You only "think" you are gathering with Christians but nothing could be further from the truth, If that is what you want, you are welcome to it.
Even one church I was in had a group of witches come in. Pastor knew who they where.

 

[Naomi25]

and a big and obvious problem we have now is all of the divisions among those who insist that theirs is the tradition that inherited it, dont you think? It sounds like a great idea, this gathering of like minded (in what are really love feasts btw and not worship at all imo, but nevermind) believers into, basically, splinter groups, but i suggest that our current definition of "church" is actually pretty rotten?
esp at the moment?

I'm not sure, given this reply, how much you truly understand Protestant eccesiology. We're not so big on being able to lay claim on 'who holds the correct inherited tradition', and more on seeking correct doctrines from scripture. We enjoy learning from tradition and the Church forefathers, but if they do not line up with what we see the bible clearly teaching, we discard it. Thus we are always refining our practices.
Now, does that mean we always get it right? Of course not. We're not perfect and when we come together we're still a group of 'not-perfect' people. But we do our best based solely upon scripture. And we see scripture as endorsing the Body meeting together.
For example: when Jesus ate the passover supper with the Disciples in the upper room, he gave them the cup, and the bread, and told them to 'do this in memory of me'. And we see Paul telling the new Church in 1 Cor 11 chastising the church there for not doing it correctly. But clearly, it WAS something they were to gather together and do. And in Eph 5:19 and Col 3:16 we see Paul telling the Church he wrote to to 'teach and admonish one another', to 'sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.' There are many other references as well, to the body of Christ gathering together, and why this is a good thing. But my point is this: tradition can be respected, but it's not something you hang your doctrines or theology on. Scripture and scripture alone is for that. And that's what we look to when we 'do' Church.

well, there is usually some kind of appropriating going on anyway...
but dont get me wrong, not denying Institutional church has a place ok
(sheep need shearing )

Have you ever considered that God, being the author and creator of everything IS the originator of everything? That, as Solomon put it: 'there is nothing new under the sun', and, therefore, any 'cultural appropriating' that may seem to be happening has, in fact, only been taken from the one and true God anyway, and therefore anything being redeemed by his people cannot, in fact, be thought of as appropriating?

hey, other people that would be awesome imo, doing life with other people would be great, only clanning up with your homies kinda stifles that yeh, i mean any Muslims in your "church" bac?
see?
"Church" has now been appropriated, for all intents and purposes, when this one reads "church" she will understand "me and my congregation"
basically even if a Jim Jones is leading it
see that was still called "church"
anyway hence my objection. That def of "church" ends up being exclusive, not "others" at all

I'm sorry, but that is the most baffling response. And once again, it shows a fundamental lack of understand over what the body of Christ actually is.
Here is what it is NOT. A personal, individual choice as to who gets in and who doesn't belong. 'Church' is not a click or a clan. It is a multi-national body made up of individuals who are both similar and different. Some are easy to love and get along with, some drive you crazy. All are family.
Now...do I have any Muslims in "my" Church? That is a question that could be taken several different ways. Do I have any people from a Muslim background attending my local church? Nope. I live in an extreme small village and there are no Muslims...at all...in the surrounding area. Not that they aren't welcome, it's just that you don't see may come out here and buy up large farms to go farming.
Or...do I have any practicing Muslims in my local church? No...any practicing Muslim wouldn't step into our church even if they were here.
Or...do I have any people from a Muslim background in the Church as a whole that I can count as a brother or sister? Sure...millions. Just because I haven't met them yet doesn't make them not my family.
Here's the thing...no. Here's 2 things: first....it's never up to us who is welcomed into the Body of Christ; but once they ARE in the Body, the Church, they ARE family, and we need to treat them as such. Secondly, just because nut-jobs like Jim Jones want to abscond with the term 'church', doesn't mean we toss out the biblical term or meaning ascribed to it. That would be foolish and have us chasing our tails all the time, rather than just getting down to business of loving God and loving others.
Finally...yes. Yes, the Church is exclusive. And again, that is not up to us. If God wants to say that the Church is the Body...the Bride of Christ. And that that body is solely made up of those who have put their faith in Christ, then yes...there is a large chunk of people who have not put their faith in him. But you know what? I think God has the right to make that determination.

ah, but are widows and orphans and strangers being regarded, really that isnt the program yeh? Not saying it doesnt happen, but usually much more symbolically, lets say.

Most "churches" are open several hours a week, at best. Some only two.
i man call it church if you want, the whole rest of the wrold does right

Ok. Let me ask you a question. Are YOU helping ALL the widows and orphans in the city you live in? Do you get out there every day of the week and hunt them all down and do your Christian duty? Probably not, huh? You probably do what you can, considering what life throws at you; work, health, money, family, etc.
Well, welcome to 'The Church'. Which, if you are a Christian, you are. Like you, 'The Church' is but a gathering of people just like you. Who have a heart for these people, and do what they can when they can, but things like life, health, money, work, family, also get in the way from a 24/7 'widows and orphans' operation.
So again, its easy to make judgements, but a building is just a building, regardless of how often its doors are open. It's the people who love others and come together to try and make programs that help, and if they struggle to find the time, health or money to do so...or if Christians refuse to join in the work by refusing to gather together and only criticize...then that work will not be done.

 

[Naomi25]

No there is not one church there are many, but there is one "true Church", which do you belong to, the catholic, protestant, JW,s, SDa CCOC cclc mormans or the other gazziolion, which is your flavour.

Again, I think you are falling prey to mistaken terminology. Yes, the JW's, Mormon's, etc, may call themselves 'churches', but that is only because they have 'borrowed' the term, no doubt because they believe they, too, are true believers. Sadly, the more we dig into their beliefs, the more it belies the name. In scripture we find that "The Church" is the Body of Christ. And it's made up of true believers; those who have placed their faith and trust in Christ alone. So, you must agree that there is only one body of Christ, surely.
Myself, I'm Protestant. I attend a Baptist Church, but I think doctrinally I hover towards Presbyterian way.

We as Christians dont need "churches", in China it is n homes, in factories where ever they can find a safe place it isnt a church it is a gathering of believers, has no title just people who love the Lord and want to grow, If you cant see what "church: is you are missing the boat.

In China, the 'Church' IS the people in their homes. Mmm, let me try and explain like this:

Revelation 7:9 - After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands

These people...these from 'every nation, tribes and languages'....THESE people ARE the Church. They are from the whole earth, but in their belief in Christ, they form one body, called the Church.
People just tend to call it 'church' when "The Church" gathers together, because it's easier. But, you are absolutely right in that a gathering together in a house in China is 'church'. Three people having a secret meeting in Iran is 'church'. Two people in the vast, lonely outback where there is no other believer for miles and miles, is 'church'. But the very real point is this: Christians tend to WANT to gather together. We want to share our faith, our strife's and triumphs with other Christians. We want to pray with them, sing with them, encourage them, be encouraged by them. Learn with them, learn from them. I don't think God really cares HOW we do it, but I do think he wants us to.

As for believers, my dad was telling me about my sister who is a christian, who had bible studies at home, at one of the meeting one of teh ladies got up and said, she had to leave, she is a with and needs to go pray against the christians. Church is filled with them and you wont know unless they tell you. You only see the outside, God can see the inside and without spiritual discernment. they all look just the same, the sheep and the Goats, the wheat and the tares. You only "think" you are gathering with Christians but nothing could be further from the truth, If that is what you want, you are welcome to it.
Even one church I was in had a group of witches come in. Pastor knew who they where.

Okay. Sure. We know there are a fair share of false 'christians' who attend. We also know there are 'wolves'. But...there are also, and I'd say mostly, Christians. Should I say to my sisters in Christ "no, I won't meet with you to pray today because that person over there is not a true sister?" That sounds...like something an unsaved person would say! No! I'd say "come, let us pray together for that person we KNOW to be unsaved!" We are urged by Christ to love our enemies. What is more loving then to pray for their salvation?
We're not supposed to try and set up our gatherings so there's a force field around it to keep unsaved people out. We want them to come in. We want them to become saved! As Paul said, 'how else are they to be saved, who hasn't heard?'
And, as we look at the parable of the wheat and tares, we know that Christ fully expects his people to be in among unsaved people. That is why he prayed to his Father not to 'take us out of the world, but keep us in it'. We have work to do, and we cannot do it if we partition ourselves off from the unsaved.

 

[mjrhealth]

Again, I think you are falling prey to mistaken terminology. Yes, the JW's, Mormon's, etc, may call themselves 'churches', but that is only because they have 'borrowed' the term, no doubt because they believe they, too, are true believers. Sadly, the more we dig into their beliefs, the more it belies the name. In scripture we find that "The Church" is the Body of Christ. And it's made up of true believers; those who have placed their faith and trust in Christ alone. So, you must agree that there is only one body of Christ, surely.
Myself, I'm Protestant. I attend a Baptist Church, but I think doctrinally I hover towards Presbyterian way.

and that makes you right and them wrong???? Every church says every other church is wrong and theres is right,

And, as we look at the parable of the wheat and tares, we know that Christ fully expects his people to be in among unsaved people. That is why he prayed to his Father not to 'take us out of the world, but keep us in it'. We have work to do, and we cannot do it if we partition ourselves off from the unsaved.

And, as we look at the parable of the wheat and tares, we know that Christ fully expects his people to be in among unsaved people. That is why he prayed to his Father not to 'take us out of the world, but keep us in it'. We have work to do, and we cannot do it if we partition ourselves off from the unsaved.

and where do you find the unsaved, funny you would be in church looking for them...

Mar 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Christ is coming for His bride, pure spotless without blemish, He isnt coming for a harlot.

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit

when a woman joins herself to another woman, isnt that a homosexual act and an abomination before God, even worse when that woman claims to be His bride.

 

[bbyrd009]

Thus we are always refining our practices.

who is "we" here, Naomi?

i am not teying to be funny ok, pls define "we" in your own words, ty

and pls no cheating or getting all pious-sounding, ok? Pls define the "we" you had in mind as best you can when you wrote that, that image you had/have in your mind, if you would, ty. To establish their perspective, or if you mean to speak for them, iow

I'm sorry, but that is the most baffling response. And once again, it shows a fundamental lack of understand over what the body of Christ actually is.

im sorry, but i think it is pretty spot on, at least generally speaking, although i understand why you might feel differently ok. A pressing concern in this context though would be that someone like you, who still endorses Christian Love Feasts (as "worship") still has not eaten the manna, at your stage/age? No idea what naive dialectic is even yet? And for me this is a killer.

So wadr i dont believe those are even very close to what the Body of Christ actually is, these Jesus Worshipping people who gather together and sing "When We All Get to Heaven." And as far as im concerned their/your appropriation of the descriptive as if it were true is a large part of the problem.

although i can honestly say that our congregations have and are undergoing a complete sea change in the last ten years, and even as we speak. Strangely they seem to be either getting better or getting worse, dunno if you saw the pictures i took in FL of the Kingdom of God Church, Inc? and that other one, the...Senda church, i think it was?

and wadr dont you still believe Jesus is Returning really soon to take you away somewhere, Naomi?
and look, cant you see that i am still evil, and not claiming to be any better than them? Which believe me is not false modesty

and therefore anything being redeemed by his people cannot, in fact, be thought of as appropriating?

but again, my issue--if i even have one, im pretty much at peace with the perfection of the world right now tbh--if any would be that in your use of "his people" you have a set group in mind, see, "we" you are calling it, right, and this "we" is specifically...whatever exclusive group you have in your mind, yeh? ppl who have gotten ritually baptized, or said the correct words in some other ritual, that you now deem "Christian" or "saved" and wadr rather ignorantly so, at least imo. Althouh i hate to use the word "ignorant" but i hope you get me, i am "ignorant" of many, many things and always will be, etc.

anyway, point being there are no Muslims in your "we," right?

but again, even over and above that, the satans dialectic, the pervasive not having found and eaten the manna yet

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm sorry, but that is the most baffling response. And once again, it shows a fundamental lack of understand over what the body of Christ actually is.

may i ask how your fundamental beliefs have changed, since your first day in "church?"
again just a personal description, i am not asking as a lawyer ok, no wrong answers iow

 

[bbyrd009]

No there is not one church there are many

he said, with Complete Confidence...
lol

so, got any Scripture for this mjr?

 

[Marymog]

Although supposedly a reader and a teacher still you do not understand what I wrote? The thousands of churches with disagreeing doctrines you mention exist due to people not really willing to pay the price to get "in His name" and stay there. The problem is not in the Catholic Church alone. It is in people of probably every church setting as well as those outside of churches...

I do not understand why you are such a condescending person. ("supposedly a reader and a teacher still you do not understand")

WHO decides which people not really willing to pay the price to get "in His name" and stay there??? YOU??

The reason for the thousands of churches with disagreeing doctrines is because of heretical men rejecting the authoritative Church that Christ started. The Church that has the power to bind on earth what is bound in heaven.

 

[bbyrd009]

yet i notice--just in passing here--in my pretty extensive survey, prolly a thousand congs at this point, that even that "church" leaves town when a community goes Third World, goes broke iow; our "churches" exist wherever money is, basically, and i even have a picture of a certain intersection in Flint with a "church" on each corner, all closed. One of them brand new!

so i mean take this however you may, but your "church" is surely going to abandon you too, and prolly when you need it the most, too!

 

[Marymog]

I only know what God has shown me! You want to focus on the words I said about Catholics. The problem is NOT a specifically Catholic one.

It is a people following their own flesh problem and always has been since Adam and Eve disobeyed God. You want to draw a line between Catholics and others as if that difference would make the difference. While you are fighting against people, including some who really love God, God would like you to refocus your efforts on loving Him. You'll gain no brownie points with God by trying to do what you believe is His work. That is what Saul of Tarsis or Paul the Apostle tried to before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. He was wrong, as you are wrong.

Really??? I am wrong but YOU are right??? Fascinating......and condescending!!!

 

[Marymog]

well, i dont see anything wrong with "congregation" but i dont expect you to adhere to my beliefs, mary, and i still use the term "church" myself. imo the preceeding discussion should also maybe just be had every now and then, something like that.

I am glad you don't have that expectation of me. I am not even sure what you believe except that everyone else is wrong and you are right.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am glad you don't have that expectation of me. I am not even sure what you believe except that everyone else is wrong and you are right.

well im not sure why you say that after "imo the preceeding discussion should also maybe just be had every now and then, something like that," iow i am not saying that my perspective is the only valid one, but you can think what you like i guess. I have done my best to make plain that i believe "church" is fine for ppl at a certain stage, and also that "church" is a great place to be from!
Oh daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

 

[Preacher4Truth]

It's amusing watching two heretics battle with one another.

 

[bbyrd009]

And also bam do not forsake gathering yourselves together imo; but i would say understand that your personal definition of where to gather does not have to agree with the world's!

 

[bbyrd009]

It's amusing watching two heretics battle with one another.

yes, lets all pray it together with p4t, one more time;
"i thank you, God, that i am not like that guy over there..."
Luke 18:11 Lexicon: "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.

 

[bbyrd009]

These are the preachers of our "churches," see

 

[Pisteuo]

These are the preachers of our "churches," see

Just pay your tithes, ok bro?

 

[bbyrd009]

Hello there,
I found this study paper online, and thought it worth entering here for your consideration and comment.

CHRISTIAN INDIVIDUALISM
Otis Sellars
​

The God-inspired declaration of the Apostle Paul tells us that all who determine to live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution (2 Tim. 3:12). In most lands today, this persecution will usually take the form of disfellowshipping, ostracism, separation, misrepresentation and misunderstanding of one's high and holy purpose. Along these same lines, I would add that if anyone does determine to live godly in Christ Jesus, he will have to do it as an individual. The one who gives his time searching for some group or company that is living godly in Christ Jesus, and to which he may attach himself, is doomed in advance to failure and disappointment.

Put it down for a positive fact that the average professing Christian is not interested in living godly in Christ Jesus. He spends most of his time seeking for ways to live worldly in Christ, to make a "fun thing" or a "money thing" of his professed connection with the Lord.

A most positive aspect of living godly in Christ Jesus is that the one who has so determined has "chosen the way of truth" (Psa. 119:30). He joins the Lord Jesus in saying, "Thy Word is truth" (John 17:17). And once this choice has been made, the only question that can ever be asked concerning any teaching or practice is, "Is it the truth?" If it is, it must be embraced and declared; if not, it must be repudiated.

It should be understood in advance that the determination to live godly in Christ Jesus, and the choice of "the truth way" rather than "the church way" is not an easy road to travel. It could be a very lonesome road. So, if one cannot decide in advance that, through the help of Jesus Christ, he can accept the isolation, the ostracism, and the misunderstanding that may come from following such a course, he had better not start upon it. He would
probably be happier if he simply cast his lot with some like-minded group of "food, fun, and fellowship" seekers. If one is going to be miserable living the life of a Christian individualist, he had better find some other way of life.

If, among those who read these lines, there are those who have had a true encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ; if they have judged themselves as sinners and received Him as their Savior; if they have come face-to-face with the fact of God's Truth versus man's error; if they have chosen the way of Truth, and it has become their determination to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ they will find it necessary to find a way of life in Christ Jesus that will allow them to live out to the limit the relationship which they now bear to God through Him. If Jesus Christ, rather than some sect or denomination, is to be the molder of their lives, I recommend to them Christian Individualism as being the true and best way of life for the active believer in Christ Jesus.

The believer whose knowledge of the Bible is ever increasing, whose appreciation of the person and work of Jesus Christ is ever-growing, with this resulting in a determination to give Him the preeminence in all things, will find that he quickly becomes persona non grata (an unacceptable person) in any church today. His unwillingness to go along with the popular schemes and make-work activities of today's religions will cause him to be branded as a divisive factor, and any protests he makes will bring the charge that he is a troublemaker.

The churches want bodies to help swell the attendance; they welcome purses that will help with the finances, but they insist that everything that means so much to the active believer in Christ must be forgotten and left at home. He can play and he can pay but is allowed nothing to say. And if he insists in raising his voice in protest, he can expect a visit from the board of deacons who will insist that he keep quiet and conform or else face a more drastic action. This can be such a frightening prospect to many that they will seek to avoid it at any cost. So, they become amenable and complacent, usually giving as an excuse that they are doing it for the sake of their families.

However, for many others, such compromises are impossible. The truth as it is in Christ Jesus means more to them than any organization, and they cannot remain silent when grievous errors and practices are promulgated. Thus, the only course open to them is one of Christian individualism. This
means a commitment to Christ and to His Word while standing apart from any commitment to any religious body.

It has been my joy to recommend this way of life to many believers in Christ. It is my belief and my experience that it is the privilege of any individual to establish relationship with Jesus Christ in which all that He can ever be to any man in this dispensation, His rich blessings, and fellowship can be enjoyed wholly apart from any institution called a church. Such things as nearness to God, likeness to Christ, devotedness to His Word, and separation from the world can all be attained and maintained by the individual believer in Jesus Christ without his being any part of an organized company. The believer can be attached to Christ, to His Name, to His Word, yes, even to His people, without being any part of any church. I offer my own life as proof of this.

The primary value of Christian individualism is that it permits a faithful presentation of Jesus Christ to others. It permits one's eye to be single when he seeks to win men to Christ. There is no demand upon him to bring men to Christ and also into some church.

He is able to plead God's cause and feels no need of pleading the cause of any church or denomination.

Christian individualism lifts a man to a position of sublime independence of all the religions of this world. The Christian individualist knows that a man can be joined to God through Jesus Christ, and that he does not need to face or become involved in all the divergent issues created by religious organisations. He knows the satisfying value of having gone directly to God, knowing no intermediary but Jesus Christ, His Son, and no other authority save the written Word of God. He smilingly refuses the officious cries of churchmen who declare that he cannot have Christ as his Savior until he has first acknowledged and received them.

The Christian faith was from the very first the personal faith of individuals. This is clearly seen in the declaration of Paul who tells us that after God's dealings with him on the Damascus road, he did not confer with any human being. Neither did he go up to Jerusalem to them that were apostles before him; but he went into Arabia, then later came back to Damascus (see Gal. 1:15-19).

The believers of the Acts period were not always scattered; and wherever possible, they moved and acted as a fellowship of individuals. But when one of them found himself cut off from all others, he stood alone, finding his all in Christ.

Before determining to live godly in Christ Jesus, before choosing the way of truth, before starting out on the path of Christian individualism, the believer had better make sure that he can "go it alone" spiritually. It may be necessary for him to do this. Let him be determined in advance that he is able to say with godly Asaph of old: "Whom have I in heaven but Thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside Thee" (Psalm 73:25).

Christian individualism is a way of life, not a way of escape. It consists of that which an active believer in Christ does, not what he does not do. Therefore, let no careless, loveless, prayerless, antisocial individual take refuge in it. Let no sports enthusiast, Sunday morning golfer, fisherman, or television addict adopt it in order to free himself for the pursuit of his pleasures. Let not the stingy use it as a way to stop all giving. Let no one take this high and holy position unless his life, from that day on, is to be lived for the glory of Jesus Christ.

Quite a few believers who have considered Christian individualism as a way of life have asked about fellowship with other believers. And to this there is only one answer - fellowship with others to the very limit. Christian individualism is not an anti-social way of life. Do not hesitate to go anywhere, where you can find and be of help to other believers. However, if you find that such associations are causing you to compromise or keep quiet in regard to things you know to be the truth, better withdraw from them at once.

Remember, "Our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. . . . If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:3-7).

So, after all has been said, and all arguments pro and con have been exhausted, there is only one method of dealing with God in this dispensation; and that method is personally and individually. This is the way
we must start, and. this is the way we should continue. In this way of life, we can best fulfil our position as believers in an unbelieving world, as godly men in an immoral world, as students of God's Word in a world that is Biblically illiterate.

 

[Marymog]

well im not sure why you say that after "imo the preceeding discussion should also maybe just be had every now and then, something like that," iow i am not saying that my perspective is the only valid one, but you can think what you like i guess. I have done my best to make plain that i believe "church" is fine for ppl at a certain stage, and also that "church" is a great place to be from!
Oh daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

How can your perspective be valid AND other perspectives be valid??? Only one can be valid (the Truth). Your theory makes no sense.

 

[Marymog]

It's amusing watching two heretics battle with one another.

Who decides what is heretical and what is not heretical?

Curious Mary