The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[farouk]

1 John 5: 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Its powerful to know your ability and power to continue to believe in God is your knowledge that you HAVE eternal life. Security in Christ is our power. it is why paul considered his suffering a momentary light affliction. It is how satan is powerless when he tries to accuse us, It is why we can go out and work. Because nothing in this life is to hard or to painful compared to eternity.

And John continues.

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life

I keep hearing about warning of apostles. Where here is an apostle giving us the greatest warning of all. The warning being to HOLD ON, and KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE (it is not conditional or something you may not get) and to KNOW GOD. and all these things.

because that is where we get the power to continue to believe and continue to move forward

Those 'we knows' are so important and so glorious!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Cool, solid "no". We're in agreement there.

Both believing that salvation comes from grace, a gift, and not earned.


Ok, obviously you grew and got better.
But my question was meant did God & God's gift of salvation somehow become more powerful because you accepted it. The answer is "no". God's glory is infinite, regardless of any of us.

and I agree 100%

b

 

[farouk]

He said this to people in the tribulation period. That there will be great tribulation such as never seen before or after, he who endures to the end wil be saved (PHYSICALLY) eternal salvation is not in context here


Salvation is not a prise it is a gift. You run to earn a reward. Thats WHY paul said in romans 4 that salvation was not a reward or wage which could be earned..



Yeah, And I believe these people are still saved, I do not think God kicked them out of his family because they were hurt n fact I think he hurts for them.

When my daughter lost faith in me and turned her back on me, because of my ex wife, I did not kick her out. She is still my daughter and still welcome in my home, why would I expect God to act different then men

finally

Endure to the end, Run the race

So your enduring to be saved, and trying to earn a reward. so how can you say you are not trying to earn your salvation by works? You just in one paragraph proved you are trying to earn your salvation did you not?

Matthew 24 does not seem to be about the church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those 'we knows' are so important and so glorious!

I believe they are the most important thing in scripture for a child of God to learn, it should be the first thought taught to all new believers, because all of their growth will be made so much easier if they know these are sure and true from the beginning.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

and I agree 100%

b

Cool.

Back to my original statement:
Everyone believe that salvation is a gift from God. Nobody believes it's earned.

Cool.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Matthew 24 does not seem to be about the church.

Either way, Enduring to the end was not a command to endure to receive eternal life. But a call to endure and never give up hope. Because if you edure to the end, Imagine, you will personally see Jesus coming in the clouds, and victory won, and enter the kingdom period having survived the greatest conflict man has ever witnessed.

 

[farouk]

I believe they are the most important thing in scripture for a child of God to learn, it should be the first thought taught to all new believers, because all of their growth will be made so much easier if they know these are sure and true from the beginning.

The foundations of what the new birth really means doctrinally and practically are so important to grasp, yes, indeed...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Cool.

Back to my original statement:
Everyone believe that salvation is a gift from God. Nobody believes it's earned.

Cool.

Back to my origional response

Thats not true,

Just because Gods gift did not become less valuable does not mean some try to earn it.

The jews tried to earn it by trying to add works of the law. in doing so. THEY devalued the gift and made it of no value (to them) because they tried to earn the gift thus in essence, they rejected the gift

It is no different if people today try to add works to grace and try to earn the same gift God offered them? In effect they make the gift of no value, and in turn reject it.

As paul said, If it is of grace, it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace

If I person thinks salvation must be maintained or it can be lost. They do not believe salvation is a gift. They believe like someone said earlier. it must be earned as a reward or by enduring to the end.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The foundations of what the new birth really means doctrinally and practically are so important to grasp, yes, indeed...

As scripture says, never forget your first love, When we do so. We are in danger

 

[farouk]

As scripture says, never forget your first love, When we do so. We are in danger

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved.
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!'

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Back to my origional response

Thats not true,

Just because Gods gift did not become less valuable does not mean some try to earn it.

The jews tried to earn it by trying to add works of the law. in doing so. THEY devalued the gift and made it of no value (to them) because they tried to earn the gift thus in essence, they rejected the gift

It is no different if people today try to add works to grace and try to earn the same gift God offered them? In effect they make the gift of no value, and in turn reject it.

As paul said, If it is of grace, it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace

If I person thinks salvation must be maintained or it can be lost. They do not believe salvation is a gift. They believe like someone said earlier. it must be earned as a reward or by enduring to the end.

Some people, being flawed creatures with limited understanding, will try to earn something.

That's just them being flawed creatures, and frankly irrelevant to the actual conversation here.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I missed this earlier--

If I person thinks salvation must be maintained or it can be lost. They do not believe salvation is a gift. They believe like someone said earlier. it must be earned as a reward or by enduring to the end.

That's you pushing your thoughts on someone else. It's a bad idea.

As we've thoroughly discussed now: I (a non-OSAS person) do believe that salvation is a gift.
That's just a statement of fact.
Your thoughts don't change it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some people, being flawed creatures with limited understanding, will try to earn something.

That's just them being flawed creatures, and frankly irrelevant to the actual conversation here.

Well if they are trying to earn salvation, They reject the gift of Christ, and this will lead to eternal consequences

I think someones eternity being in question is not irrevelent

 

[farouk]

Well if they are trying to earn salvation, They reject the gift of Christ, and this will lead to eternal consequences

I think someones eternity being in question is not irrevelent

Ephesians 2.8-9 is pretty clear, anyway...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I missed this earlier--

That's you pushing your thoughts on someone else. It's a bad idea.

As we've thoroughly discussed now: I (a non-OSAS person) do believe that salvation is a gift.
That's just a statement of fact.
Your thoughts don't change it.

I hate to say this, But I think you just like to argue

Your premise was the fact no one here believes salvation is earned. Which in this post. I showed how I disagree with that statement

then somehow you took it as I was saying YOU believe that salvation must be earned, Something I do not think I ever stated.

You would think you would want to discuss why I think you were wrong in that statement, and how how (if I was) i was wrong in what I said

You also have failed to direct anything about what I said about your believe that people can give salvation back. so we have yet even attempted to discuss your non osas view

But again.....

 

[FollowHim]

Salvation is not a prise it is a gift. You run to earn a reward.

Is salvation the gift or righteousness?
Righteousness is the ability to approach God, not to be guilty, to be clean, pure and Holy.

17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:17

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
Rom 6:23

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast
Eph 2:8-9

The gift is righteousness, eternal life, faith

Interestingly salvation and gift are not put together. Faith brings belief. Belief is counted as righteousness.

Salvation is not a gift, it is as a result of belief, and belief comes from faith.
I have the faith to believe.

22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:22

A gift of faith can be acted on so one believes or chooses to have unbelief.
Salvation is not a gift, it is a result of belief.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I hate to say this, But I think you just like to argue

Your premise was the fact no one here believes salvation is earned. Which in this post. I showed how I disagree with that statement

then somehow you took it as I was saying YOU believe that salvation must be earned, Something I do not think I ever stated.

You would think you would want to discuss why I think you were wrong in that statement, and how how (if I was) i was wrong in what I said

You also have failed to direct anything about what I said about your believe that people can give salvation back. so we have yet even attempted to discuss your non osas view

But again.....

Are you willing to acknowledge that a person can not believe in OSAS, and still believe that salvation is a gift of grace & not earned?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you willing to acknowledge that a person can not believe in OSAS, and still believe that salvation is a gift of grace & not earned?

Are you willing to show me how that is possible?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you willing to acknowledge that a person can not believe in OSAS, and still believe that salvation is a gift of grace & not earned?

You said you believe a person can return their gift.

I gave some scripture and reasons why I disagree with this thinking

Are we going to discuss this or should I move on?

 

[farouk]

Are you willing to show me how that is possible?

Would be v. hard - impossible - to show from Scripture...