The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Eternally Grateful]

If there was no heaven, would you? Or would you eat, drink and be merry?

1 cor 15
And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have [c]fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
I know it not the same question, but if there is no heaven Christ died in vein and we are still in our sin, and we are of all men the most pitiable

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All those rewards are why you accepted Jesus.

those are not rewards they are gifts,

that’s the part you are not comprehending

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You use the word "striving" but isn't that "working"? Are you striving with your own will-power?

I am not striving to earn or maintain salvation

you are

huge difference their maam

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some folk love the free grace gospel but try and blend it with discipleship. You get this mess of doing things for God but not believing it is holy, righteous or worthy. Bit pointless then, ready to be put in the lake of fire.

The reason they hate to define their faith, because it gets shot to pieces. Better believe the principles and bend scripture to fit it as you go.
But it is like dealing with a chameleon, they will propose something one day and change it the next.

So Christ victory is complete and He is the creator but He fails to change us into His people today, leaving it to the last moment at the resurrection as His big reveal. But surely if it has value, He should do it now. But then there would be no excuse of unchanged lives or no fruit or reality, so it must be in the distant future. But this makes God defeated and pointless, rather die and be with Him today than live this wreck of a failed life today. In one view suicide is not sinful, and you are saved, so why not go ahead.

God the creator knows how to heal and make us whole. It is why it is good news, today, in our lives, in truth and reality. The fact that a bunch of unbelievers have not found God or His healing is their problem not Gods. They need to search Him out, and get things right. He declares those who seek Him He will answer. God bless you

Once again you just need to stop, your continued misunderstanding of what I believe gets old.

 

[CharismaticLady]

those are not rewards they are gifts,

that’s the part you are not comprehending

I'm just using your verbiage. You badger me, but do the same. Those who throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm just using your verbiage. You badger me, but do the same. Those who throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses.

You do your striving out of your own nature. But what is your nature? Carnal or divine?

You have no desire to discuss anything

you deny you work fr salvation,
every word out of your mouth are things you have to do to earn salvation

I am talking about how we are saved, so me striving because I am saved has no bearing on our conversation.

so answer my question as to how you claim you are not trying to earn salvation

 

[CharismaticLady]

You have no desire to discuss anything

you deny you work fr salvation,
Put every word out of your mouth are things you have to do to earn salvation

I am talking about how we are saved, so me striving because I am saved has no bearing on our conversation.

so answer my question as to how you claim you are not trying to earn salvation

You do your striving out of your own nature. But what is your nature? Carnal or divine? Only those who have a carnal nature have to strive like Romans 7:14-23. And why do you do it if not to overcome your sin, even though you think it is a losing battle. But you must in order to be holy. Only those who are righteous and holy will see heaven. Sin can't enter. And it doesn't disappear upon death. You may think it does, but that is another myth.

I'm not trying to earn my salvation. I do what comes naturally out of the divine nature. That seems to be beyond your comprehension so you keep throwing stones to badger me to admit to what you think I believe. But you couldn't be more wrong. And on top of that, you claim to do the same thing you accuse me of doing. I wanted to discuss this to help you so you don't have to "strive." But I keep having to dodge your bullets.

The gospel is not that hard to understand. It is the Truth that will set you free.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You do your striving out of your own nature. But what is your nature? Carnal or divine? Only those who have a carnal nature have to strive like Romans 7:14-23. And why do you do it if not to overcome your sin, even though you think it is a losing battle. But you must in order to be holy. Only those who are righteous and holy will see heaven. Sin can't enter. And it doesn't disappear upon death. You may think it does, but that is another myth.

I'm not trying to earn my salvation. I do what comes naturally out of the divine nature. That seems to be beyond your comprehension so you keep throwing stones to badger me to admit to what you think I believe. But you couldn't be more wrong. I wanted to discuss this to help you so you don't have to "strive." But I keep having to dodge your bullets.

The gospel is not that hard to understand. It is the Truth that will set you free.

You think you have to endure to,the end

you think you have to run the race to earn your reward

you think eternal life never dying living forever All the things in John 6 are rewards

so,forgive me if I see you are trying to earn salvation, you can deny it all you want, but I am not buying it

 

[CharismaticLady]

You think you have to endure to,the end

you think you have to run the race to earn your reward

you think eternal life never dying living forever All the things in John 6 are rewards

so,forgive me if I see you are trying to earn salvation, you can deny it all you want, but I am not buying it

You still refuse to tell me what nature you are striving out of. Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? If you have been, why are you striving?

 

[CharismaticLady]

You think you have to endure to,the end

you think you have to run the race to earn your reward

you think eternal life never dying living forever All the things in John 6 are rewards

so,forgive me if I see you are trying to earn salvation, you can deny it all you want, but I am not buying it

Again, you are accusing me of things I'm not even doing. Pretty soon you are going to sin against me so many times you'll even call me a liar. What is it going to take for you to know and accept the Truth??? Yes, I want to go to heaven to be with my King. Who wouldn't want to be there? I don't keep the commandments of Jesus because I have to, but because my new nature cannot do anything but keep them. To not keep them would be against my nature. Like, I could no more abuse an animal than I could a child. Is it because I strive to grudgingly? Or do I because I love to care for animals and children? Do you honestly believe I care for animals just to go to dog heaven??? That was a joke. I hope you will stop telling me I love animals to earn my way to heaven. Oy vey! You're the one striving, I'm not.

 

[FollowHim]

Once again you just need to stop, your continued misunderstanding of what I believe gets old.

EG I cannot talk about what you believe because that is yours alone. I can talk about concepts and what the logic is behind it. However I express this it will illustrate my view of these ideas.

If you identify yourself with these positions I would hope you can see the failures. Ironically if you agreed with me you would not take them.

Only with a pure heart can you see God. So much of scripture is closed to a sinner because facing its meaning would be too painful. I remember one member saying they could not read the law and take joy in it. But if we walk in the Spirit there is no condemnation because in love we fulfil the law.

Spiritual realities exist. Either we are honest about them or we are lost. God bless you. Jesus did not accuse individuals, but let His words be seeds in their hearts. God bless you.

By the way not answering points suggests they cannot be answered. I speak as I do as a light in a dark place that cannot be put out, amen.

 

[FollowHim]

You think you have to endure to,the end

you think you have to run the race to earn your reward

you think eternal life never dying living forever All the things in John 6 are rewards

so,forgive me if I see you are trying to earn salvation, you can deny it all you want, but I am not buying it

Above is a personal projection on an individual. It defines what they think and what this means. It's implication is someone is lying.

Arrogance, condemnation, judgmentalism cannot be summarised more clearly.

I had a scripture quoted with words included which were claimed were mine by such an approach. It was a complete farce. This is manufacturing others internal realities which we can never do. We can only suggest and hope the other party identifies and responds.

If someone praises the Lord, walks in Jesus's ways, this cannot be their failure or lie. If one cannot accept this, that is the lie. I cannot judge another, but Paul said that he followed Jesus's example, was pure and holy. If I believe Paul, the walk is possible so I must believe others.

But this is the problem with free grace positions. It must be a lie or they are wrong. So they must lie, condemn and judge others, it is part of their faith making enemies of God's people, literally. God bless you.

In a real sense, spiritually there can be no peace over this issue, life and death, the Kingdom hangs on these points. It is why anger, hatred, bitterness are spilled by them on such things, as it is the overflow of a sinners heart.

 

[FollowHim]

Praise springs from my heart, because God defends the righteous, uplifts the humble, exalts those who care for the needy and unloved.

Evil men and liars are doomed to the lake of fire, chaf blowing in the wind. They seem so strong, angry, full of venom and power, except they have only chaos and confusion as their friends.

Take refuge in the shadow of the Lord's wings, for there you will find rest. He cares and supports His people against the enemy, nothing will prevails against His courts. Amen, Glory be to the King on High Amen

 

[mjrhealth]

All those rewards are why you accepted Jesus. If there was no heaven, would you? Or would you eat, drink and be merry?

Depends, I never accepted Christ for any rewards I accepted Him because I believe Him, Yes HE may have offered me things, But we follow Him because of who He is or its all about us. Pat on back, you are such a good person.

 

[mjrhealth]

Praise springs from my heart, because God defends the righteous, uplifts the humble, exalts those who care for the needy and unloved.

Evil men and liars are doomed to the lake of fire, chaf blowing in the wind. They seem so strong, angry, full of venom and power, except they have only chaos and confusion as their friends.

Take refuge in the shadow of the Lord's wings, for there you will find rest. He cares and supports His people against the enemy, nothing will prevails against His courts. Amen, Glory be to the King on High Amen

Like to know where you fit in, in all of this, after reading some of your posts.

 

[FollowHim]

Ironic condemnation

Righteousness made by Jesus in us is something to exalt and proclaim, because it brings hope to others
Dear lost, hurt, lonely people are dying because they have no hope. They know their pain, they hate the world, but they have not seen the light of God's people walking in victory. So share it, humbly testify to it, because this is our walk, our daily reality that the lost deny but dream of a way through. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Like to know where you fit in, in all of this, after reading some of your posts.

This is my point. I walk with Jesus. That is all this is. The how is between me and Him.

Some say this is impossible. They are unbelievers, have no faith and do not know Jesus.

You know an enemy when they wish you harm, thorns and thistles. I hope this answers your question.

 

[mjrhealth]

This is my point. I walk with Jesus. That is all this is. The how is between me and Him.

Some say this is impossible. They are unbelievers, have no faith and do not know Jesus.

You know an enemy when they wish you harm, thorns and thistles. I hope this answers your question.

There are many who walk with Jesus. the path may be narrow, but each is different, no 2 have the same path. It is one thing to make nice posts, but as the wife of a friend of mine told me after telling here all about Jesus , because she had heard him and I discussing, Here response, I believe you, not only because another christian told me the same thing, but because you talk from experience, my husband only ever speaks of the bible. Its easy to hide behind forums and scripture, its hard to show them who your really are, Christ never spoke with airs and graces, He simply spoke the truth, and our own hearts deceive us as you said, as I said to another, just because others dont walk as "perfectly" as you do, doesnt make them any less than you, Gods promises are yes and amen and HE is no respecter of persons.

And than we have

2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon m

I guess for many His grace is not enough.

 

[FollowHim]

There are many who walk with Jesus. the path may be narrow, but each is different, no 2 have the same path. It is one thing to make nice posts, but as the wife of a friend of mine told me after telling here all about Jesus , because she had heard him and I discussing, Here response, I believe you, not only because another christian told me the same thing, but because you talk from experience, my husband only ever speaks of the bible. Its easy to hide behind forums and scripture, its hard to show them who your really are, Christ never spoke with airs and graces, He simply spoke the truth, and our own hearts deceive us as you said, as I said to another, just because others dont walk as "perfectly" as you do, doesnt make them any less than you, Gods promises are yes and amen and HE is no respecter of persons.

And than we have

2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon m

I guess for many His grace is not enough.

The world is full of domination and put downs. Love opens doors, and only when applied to the heart.

Wherever a person is I wish to just be a light of love and hope. Walkng the path through is a path of love and grace. I wish my words could be more in a forum, but that is our limitation.

Paul took every thought captive. Have you ever thought that idea through? Being perfect, what is this? What is Jesus example? What is not resisting the evil man? Turning the other cheek?
These are some of my life long questions that now seem much clearer.

And yes I could be fake, just words. But Jesus is our foundation. If I am fake, maybe it's because the believer thinks Jesus is fake. Jesus implied the message is the problem, not the speaker. God bless you

 

[mjrhealth]

The world is full of domination and put downs. Love opens doors, and only when applied to the heart.

Wherever a person is I wish to just be a light of love and hope. Walkng the path through is a path of love and grace. I wish my words could be more in a forum, but that is our limitation.

Paul took every thought captive. Have you ever thought that idea through? Being perfect, what is this? What is Jesus example? What is not resisting the evil man? Turning the other cheek?
These are some of my life long questions that now seem much clearer.

And yes I could be fake, just words. But Jesus is our foundation. If I am fake, maybe it's because the believer thinks Jesus is fake. Jesus implied the message is the problem, not the speaker. God bless you

I dont think believers believe Jesus is fake and fact I dont think many have actually found Him, seems all that knocking on doors is not enough. Be though perfect as I am perfect. ye would love to see the perfect christian when they stand before God and they find out how in-perfect they are, Funny things wit hall my time with Christ HE never demanded perfection of me, neither did God, in fact it was Him that taught me, David loved God and wasnt perfect, yet He said that David was a man after Gods own heart. The best one can do is point one to Christ, if they choose another way that is there problem.