Spotting the Heretic

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Joseph77

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Here is some "context" for you, Joseph77...
You have no idea of the difference between the Judgement seat of Christ, and the final judgement of the Christ rejector that is Revelation 20:11.
If you do, explain it and we'll find out.
You have no understanding of why someone's name is taken out of the Lamb's book of Life, or why it isn't.
If you do, explain it, and we'll find out.
The reason you believe you can lose your salvation is because you are not trusting in Christ to keep you saved.
If you don't believe you can lose your salvation, then don't be afraid to admit it.
More distracting deception - no, I won't fall for your trickery.

If someone is not saved, they don't have to worry about losing their salvation later today or tomorrow.
If someone is not saved, but wants approval of false teachers, they will make claims like you post to get the approval of men, and not get the approval of God which is what is needed.
If someone thinks they are saved, that does not mean they are saved - as noted by Jesus Himself in the Bible.
 

Behold

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Again, a false premise (found) in (more than one of) your posts on which you build or claim further false teachings ?

I'd think that is not proper, nor good.


You are not able to prove its a "false premise".
Why is that?
Its because you have no depth of understanding, no spiritual discernment, and are only aware of your opinion... which is your God.
 

Joseph77

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The devil teaches that you are to work to keep yourself saved.. That working out your salvation is to complete it by SELF effort.
Perhaps the devil teaches you..... how else do you end up in such deep errors ?
Making another false statement - having another false premise here quoted, getting to the beginning of when you first thought this was true, or other things you posted, probably cannot be done on this forum. It is rarely accomplished when someone is not seeking the truth and is not seeking Life in Christ Jesus. i.e. people keep on believing their errors, for what reason often unknown, but they trusted some person or spirit opposed to Jesus, opposed to Scripure... maybe long ago (even as an infant perhaps ?), or after some kind of repentance ? But not leading to Christ Jesus.....
 

Behold

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More distracting deception - no, I won't fall for your trickery.

If someone is not saved, they don't have to worry about losing their salvation later today or tomorrow.
If someone is not saved, but wants approval of false teachers, they will make claims like you post to get the approval of men, and not get the approval of God which is what is needed.
If someone thinks they are saved, that does not mean they are saved - as noted by Jesus Himself in the Bible.

THe reason that you think you can lose your salvation, is because you are fallen from Grace.
Your theology has put YOU on the Cross.....trying to keep yourself saved.
This is why you do not trust Christ to keep you saved.
If you say that you are trusting in Christ ALONE to keep you saved, you are lying.
 

Joseph77

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You are not able to prove its a "false premise".
Just recognizing it , as God Reveals the truth, is sufficient.
Proving it is in time, as what you build upon false premises falls apart , like a house built on quicksand.
Seeing two or more false premises in the last hour in your posts is enough to avoid anything posted by you.
 

Joseph77

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THe reason that you think you can lose your salvation, is because you are fallen from Grace.
Another false statement/ false premise. tch tch..... The house might fall down even if there is not a storm.... the more that is built up on false premises, the more it will come tumbling down.


p.s. Justed Noted that there are THREE MORE FALSE STATEMENTS, false premises, you posted in the SAME POST as the above.
 

Behold

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Perhaps the devil teaches you..... how else do you end up in such deep errors ?

Its the "deceiver" who posts to me and says...>"you are error" but has no ability to teach anything himself/herself that would even attempt to prove this unfounded lie.
This is why you only "accuse" but you never "prove".
See, the DEVIL is the accuser who never proves anything...>He just accuses.
 

Behold

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Another false statement/ false premise. tch tch..... The house might fall down even if there is not a storm.... the more that is built up on false premises, the more it will come tumbling down.

Trying to "sound smart" is not working for you, Joseph77.
Try another position.
 

Behold

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I do know what falling from grace is, it is about denying the cross and our redemption. Hebrews describes it as going back to the world, at which point one cannot return.

Your understanding of "falling from Grace" is not right.

Listen.
Read...
Falling.........FROM.......Grace.

You are thinking this means..."lost my salvation"......
But thats not the verse.....thats not what it means. And the verse it not found in Hebrews, it found in Galatians.
It means you have lost faith in Christ= to keep you saved.
It means you have stopped believing that what saved you, JESUS.... will get you to heaven.

To fall from Grace means to leave it for something else..
The something else is ... SELF EFFORT to stay SAVED.
Falling from Grace is a wrong believing....issue.
Paul said..who has BEWICHED you, so that where you use to Trust in Christ, you are now trusting in SELF (flesh). + "fallen from Grace".
Thats how you fall from Grace.
Your BELIEVING FAITH becomes WRONG. Your Faith becomes faith in your works and deeds to keep yourself saved.
 

Behold

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From the moment we were saved, we were lumbered with false teachers, every kind of doctrine and fake church leaders. We came out of rcc, so you’d think it would have been plain sailing...It’s like we're magnets- sick of it, but in spite of all this, Jesus always has the victory in the end.

Let me show you how to know who to believe.
Its very simple, as long as you understand The Blood Atonement.
As long as you understand that God saved you and you dont.
You have to get there.... you have to understand that God is the Savior, and we are the SAVED.
All the bad teachers will teach that God began your salvation and now you take it from there, and be careful or you'll end up in hell if you do it wrong.

So, to SEE the deceiver......its one thing. You notice one thing. What are they doing with the Cross and Christ.
Are they giving Jesus's BLOOD, Death, and Resurrection and The Cross..... all and FULL CREDIT for saving you and keeping you saved, or are they denying Jesus and the Cross BY teaching you that you are in a "salvation process" of keeping yourself saved by your self effort.
Grace, is all of God.
Legalism, (the devil's gospel of works) is everything else that tries to replace Jesus and The Cross, = with YOU DOING IT after GOD already DID IT on the CROSS for you as a GIFT. "the gift of salvation". "the gift of Righteousness".
See that GIFT?
That is the BLOOD Atonement.

The real Minister, who is telling you the truth, will always Give ALL Credit due to Christ and the Cross for saving you, and THEN the most important part...keeping you SAVED.
Just notice who denies that part of Salvation, and you have found the Devil in their teaching or preaching.
The devil will agree that Christ saved you, but he will never teach you or agree that Christ keeps you saved.
He will replace THAT, with YOU and your self effort.
= Notice who teaches you this, and you have seen the deceived... they are OUTED.
Thats how you protect yourself. You live in this verse for LIFE.... Hebrews 13:9.... and you notice who does not teach that "Jesus who saved you KEEPS YOU SAVED".
All the devil's dark lights will replace that part of redemption with self effort.
 

Joseph77

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From the moment we were saved, we were lumbered with false teachers, every kind of doctrine and fake church leaders. We came out of rcc, so you’d think it would have been plain sailing...It’s like we're magnets- sick of it, but in spite of all this, Jesus always has the victory in the end.
Jesus does, yes, but many (most) people do not. Most people simply perish. (as written).
False teachers increase daily , with false teachings repeated without end here, until God stops them, or Jesus Returns. (as directed He does not permit them, and in the meetings of pure holy Ekklesia, they are not permitted either, at all.)
 

Joseph77

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Wrong. The CORRECT answer is that we know what Scripture says, not what men say.

Bobby Jo
? also - but not the wrong spirit here I think - it is wrong to say "we" when (or if) including that poster you replied to ...
They do not post as if they know what Scripture says, nor do they know the power of God rightly , apparently from their own words and posts so far as seen.
Yes, IF someone is in Christ Jesus obedient and truthfully, by being born again as God accomplishes this,
then yes, as God Reveals His Word, then yes we know what Scripture says. We hear His Voice, and follow Him.
Those who do not hear His Voice oppose us, oppose Jesus, oppose God, oppose God's Word, always, daily. Not just once or twice, not just once in a while.
 

GodsGrace

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You are a person who believes you can lose your salvation, and will argue this like crazy..... who is worried about me teaching that God does not see the born again as a saved sinner?
You yourself nearly worship Mary, and you are worried about how i "sound" and so forth?
You make me smile..
So, your theology harms others, while mine can free you from fear of "losing it" so that you can serve God according to how God's Grace was given to you ...
And if you perceive Zeal as Obsession, then im good.
I must have some, as ive written about 30 Threads here, in a short time, and respond to many posts sent to me per day, regarding all these Threads.
I significantly do more actual work here, the anyone else, then any 10 people... and not just on this Forum, hon.
GG, if i was not on FIRE, if i was not walking in the Spirit, anointed.... i would not be the person who can do all that... day after day after day.
So, you perceive this as "obsession", and for me that's high praise.
Thank you. !
According to you, I'm also on fire about the possibility that salvation can be forfeited and am trying to warn everyone of this.

So, I also thank you for the compliment.

Be on fire for teaching new Christians what is right and expected by God.
Teach that God requires obedience.
And faith,,,and that without faith no man can be saved because he cannot please God.
A part of faith is believing and believing means obeying.
Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.


One who teaches that salvation is assured NO MATTER WHAT,
and that teaches that WE DO NOT SIN
and that CONFESSION IS NOT NECESSARY
goes against the entirety of the N.T.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.


I do believe you are not teaching sound doctrine and thus are leading many astray.


 
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justbyfaith

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quoting the bible cannot save anyone,

On the contrary, the word of the Lord will never return void (Isaiah 55:10-11) and we are born again through the incorruptible word of God (1 Peter 1:23).

The Devil's gospel that they teach and believer is..."my doing something keeps my salvation"

Now, what I teach (since I know that you are aiming at me by this) is that a specific attitude, retained, keeps my salvation. Faith, not what I do.

Heretics live in Matthew, James, and Hebrews, mostly.

See 2 Timothy 3:16.

Go read Charismatic lady or justbyfaith.
Or, just notice anyone who states on this forum that you can "lose your salvation".

I don't teach that someone with a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14; Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) can lose their salvation.

There is a type of faith, that the Bible indicates that if you have it you can fall away (Luke 8:13)....a shallow, lukewarm, or nominal faith.

And if you perceive Zeal as Obsession, then im good.
I must have some, as ive written about 30 Threads here, in a short time, and respond to many posts sent to me per day, regarding all these Threads.

You would do better to expend that zeal reading the word.

You can chop at wood all day long but if your axe is dull you are not going to cut down any trees.

You are going hard at trying to chop at trees when you would do better to take the time to sharpen your axe.

I significantly do more actual work here, the anyone else, then any 10 people... and not just on this Forum, hon.

And if you spent the time reading God's word you would get more accomplished with less work and in a smaller amount of time.

Yes, by this I am returning your insult on you and saying that you are not a deep student of God's word...for when you said that to me and also to another on here, you had three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42, Luke 6:37) twice.

Why does it matter if you believe that you can lose your salvation?
We'll for a lot of reasons...
First, to believe this means you are "fallen from Grace".

That is rather ironic...for it is by grace that we are saved (Ephesians 2:8) and therefore to fall from grace would be to lose one's salvation.

Your logic is therefore self-defeating.

I believe I'm speaking about something that you'll apparently never grasp/understand/comprehend, even though you think that somehow you're a "Berean".

Ouch! What did I ever do to you? I think that if you would take the effort to enlighten me, I am intelligent enough to grasp your statements.

there is no point picking fights with the lost and false teachers, because no argument or debate will bring them into the Kingdom.

The purpose of dealing with false teachers is, of course, not to convince them that they are wrong and to make them stop teaching falsely; but to show forth that their teaching is false for the sake of the believer who does not know the word very well yet; and who is exposed to their teaching.

In Ezekiel God has called some to have the position and authority of a watchman.

The nature of deception is that you don't realize that you are BLINDED by the DEVIL.

@Behold, I suppose that that will be your excuse on your day of judgment...but really you have none...because the Bible tells you straight out that you are self-deceived by your doctrine; in 1 John 1:8.

(@FollowHim, it's worth a try, anyway)

The devil knows what he's doing and Christians don't have a chance against Him

The fact that you capitalize the word him when referring to the devil speaks volumes.

Falling.........FROM.......Grace.

You are thinking this means..."lost my salvation"......
But thats not the verse.....thats not what it means.

We are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8) so falling from grace would mean losing one's salvation.

All the bad teachers will teach that God began your salvation and now you take it from there, and be careful or you'll end up in hell if you do it wrong.

I will point out one thing here, that in James it says to let not many of you become teachers because as such we will incur a stricter judgment, kjv, receive the greater condemnation.

So then, even teachers of God's word, if they do it wrong, there are repercussions.

I would think that it is the teachers who would have salvation down better than anyone else, don't you think?
 
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FollowHim

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Your understanding of "falling from Grace" is not right.

Listen.
Read...
Falling.........FROM.......Grace.

You are thinking this means..."lost my salvation"......
But thats not the verse.....thats not what it means. And the verse it not found in Hebrews, it found in Galatians.
It means you have lost faith in Christ= to keep you saved.
It means you have stopped believing that what saved you, JESUS.... will get you to heaven.

To fall from Grace means to leave it for something else..
The something else is ... SELF EFFORT to stay SAVED.
Falling from Grace is a wrong believing....issue.
Paul said..who has BEWICHED you, so that where you use to Trust in Christ, you are now trusting in SELF (flesh). + "fallen from Grace".
Thats how you fall from Grace.
Your BELIEVING FAITH becomes WRONG. Your Faith becomes faith in your works and deeds to keep yourself saved.

Your concept is working for salvation rather than believing for salvation is falling from grace.
You are right that is part of Pauls argument. We are saved from sin through faith not works.

What Paul says to the church in Corinth when he rebuked them, that they repented and came back to the Lord. He also follows up that if we believe we are justified through part of the law we are justified through all of the law.

The problem a lot of protestants have is that they are not actually saved, rather than being under grace and then falling into works. It is easy to think Jesus is a moralist, rather than Jesus is a preacher of a heart of love born through the cross.

What is falling from grace is whatever causes us to walk away from the gospel and Jesus. I say this because the whole gospel is grace, a gift, which we open our hearts to. But then that is also a gift of faith, a revelation through the gift of Gods word. One could argue with a heart of good soil, do we have a choice, because put simply, if you walk in the light as He is in the light there is no other choice. This makes things very different, because there is little point preaching to the hard hearted, they are already a closed book. God bless you
 
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FollowHim

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On the contrary, the word of the Lord will never return void (Isaiah 55:10-11) and we are born again through the incorruptible word of God (1 Peter 1:23).



Now, what I teach (since I know that you are aiming at me by this) is that a specific attitude, retained, keeps my salvation. Faith, not what I do.



See 2 Timothy 3:16.



I don't teach that someone with a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14; Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) can lose their salvation.

There is a type of faith, that the Bible indicates that if you have it you can fall away (Luke 8:13)....a shallow, lukewarm, or nominal faith.



You would do better to expend that zeal reading the word.

You can chop at wood all day long but if your axe is dull you are not going to cut down any trees.

You are going hard at trying to chop at trees when you would do better to take the time to sharpen your axe.



And if you spent the time reading God's word you would get more accomplished with less work and in a smaller amount of time.

Yes, by this I am returning your insult on you and saying that you are not a deep student of God's word...for when you said that to me and also to another on here, you had three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42, Luke 6:37).



That is rather ironic...for it is by grace that we are saved (Ephesians 2:8) and therefore to fall from grace would be to lose one's salvation.

Your logic is therefore self-defeating.



Ouch! What did I ever do to you? I think that if you would take the effort to enlighten me, I am intelligent enough to grasp your statements.



The purpose of dealing with false teachers is, of course, not to convince them that they are wrong and to make them stop teaching falsely; but to show forth that their teaching is false for the sake of the believer who does not know the word very well yet; and who is exposed to their teaching.

In Ezekiel God has called some to have the position and authority of a watchman.



@Behold, I suppose that that will be your excuse on your day of judgment...but really you have none...because the Bible tells you straight out that you are self-deceived by your doctrine; in 1 John 1:8.

(@FollowHim, it's worth a try, anyway)



The fact that you capitalize the word him when referring to the devil speaks volumes.



We are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8) so falling from grace would mean losing one's salvation.



I will point out one thing here, that in James it says to let not many of you become teachers because as such we will incur a stricter judgment, kjv, receive the greater condemnation.

So then, even teachers of God's word, if they do it wrong, there are repercussions.

I would think that it is the teachers who would have salvation down better than anyone else, don't you think?

I agree there is a purpose for being a signpost to answer heresy, because some will believe without a real answer the heretic must be right. I was trying to address those who think they can convince others to go from being in the world to following Jesus.

I have found these forums have though brought blessing and understanding to my heart as to the nature of the gospel and how we can share meaningfully. God bless you
 
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Bobby Jo

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Ouch! What did I ever do to you? I think that if you would take the effort to enlighten me, I am intelligent enough to grasp your statements.

If you could be "enlightened", then you already would have been. But you haven't, and so you aren't.

Bobby Jo
 

justbyfaith

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If you could be "enlightened", then you already would have been. But you haven't, and so you aren't.

Bobby Jo
So, being unenlightened means you never can be?

If that is the case, then no one can be enlightened; because everyone is unenlightened as a baby.
 

Joseph77

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because everyone is unenlightened as a baby.
Let's be nitpicky for a minute, okay?

What do you believe "unenlightened" means, as a baby ? vs "enlightened" ?

Especially in view of God's Word: Jesus PRAISED the Father loudly and openly for REVEALING (enlightening?) SALVATION to infants, and HIDING IT from the educated ones (still to this day, TODAY) .....