Except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[Joseph77]

One who is ignorant of the things of God wlll never be right, Jesus is always right because Jesus s the truth.

?
So someone who thinks the heresy that Jesus is not God , will never be right.
I agree fully.

 

[Cristo Rei]

When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER. However, that would not be in proper context as water baptism is merely symbolic of what has already happened. The born-again experience

Your saying that water baptism is "merely symbolic" of the "born-again experience".
Unless that can be clearly shown in the bible it's an invalid argument and so the claim still stands true;
When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER
No mental gymnastics required

 

[Joseph77]

Your saying that water baptism is "merely symbolic" of the "born-again experience".
Unless that can be clearly shown in the bible it's an invalid argument and so the claim still stands true;
When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER
No mental gymnastics required

The religious leaders in the NT accounts who refused to be and weren't immersed did not accept Jesus, thus "thwarting" God's Plan for their own lives as written in one of the paraphrase descriptions.
All those who were immersed were the ones who accepted Jesus.
Simple,
not complicated.

 

[Tong2020]

When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER
No mental gymnastics required

baptized in water and born of water......not the same
No mental gymnastics required

Tong
R0710

 

[Davy]

John 3
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Since this is the prerequisite to enter into the Kingdom of God, I think it is very important to have a full understanding of it. While being born of the Spirit is pretty self explanatory, being born of "water" is less clear; that's why I put that word in all caps in the title: WATER. I say that it's less clear because I've heard many commentaries on it's meaning. Here are two.

1. When were are born of a natural birth via our Mother's wombs, then we are born of WATER when her water breaks. However, that does not make any sense in the context that Jesus spoke. It's as strange as Nicodemus' response, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

2. When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER. However, that would not be in proper context as water baptism is merely symbolic of what has already happened. The born-again experience. Your old man has been buried and a new man has come forth. So, water baptism could not be what Jesus was referring to.
....

What Jesus said in the John 3:6-7 verses defines how He meant water and spirit...

John 3:6-7
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, 'Ye must be born again.'
KJV

Christ's Salvation is offered only... to those born in the flesh through the water of woman's womb.

In order to receive His Salvation, we must believe on The Father through Jesus Christ's Blood shed upon His cross for the remission of sins. That is when our spirit inside our flesh is born of The Spirit. Apostle Paul labeled the idea as becoming a "new creature".

So really, the idea of being born of water is about woman's womb.

 

[Cristo Rei]

The religious leaders in the NT accounts who refused to be and weren't immersed did not accept Jesus, thus "thwarting" God's Plan for their own lives as written in one of the paraphrase descriptions.
All those who were immersed were the ones who accepted Jesus.
Simple,
not complicated.

Where does it say this in the Bible?

 

[Cristo Rei]

baptized in water and born of water......not the same
No mental gymnastics required

Tong
R0710

You are baptized with water. You are born of water.
Infallibly interpreted from day one by the Holy Spirit through the Church's apostles. Over 2,000 years old.

You are born from your mothers bodily fluids. You are born of water.
Interpreted 500 years ago with no guidance from the Holy Spirit by random people.

 

[Joseph77]

......

 

[Joseph77]

.......

 

[Cristo Rei]

This terminology when used almost always, or always, indicates fatal error in trusting men ....

Your interpretation come from men as well.
The difference is that their not ordained and therefore aren't guided by the Holy Spirit

 

[Joseph77]

.......

 

[Cristo Rei]

When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove... Luke 3:21-22

Jesus got baptized with water and the Holy Spirit came down on him... Fairly clear interpretation i would have thought

 

[Cristo Rei]

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...
Matthew 28:19

Jesus tells his disciples to go and baptize in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit.
Direct from scripture...

 

[Joseph77]

......

 

[Tong2020]

You are baptized with water. You are born of water.
Infallibly interpreted from day one by the Holy Spirit through the Church's apostles. Over 2,000 years old.

You are born from your mothers bodily fluids. You are born of water.
Interpreted 500 years ago with no guidance from the Holy Spirit by random people.

So what you are really saying is that when Jesus said "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God", what He is really saying is that, unless one is born from his mother and is born of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. In other words, Jesus was saying to Nicodemus, unless you are born from your mother and are born of the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God. Well, if that makes sense to you, so be it with you.

But did you not say "When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER"? And here you say that born of water means born from your mother's bodily fluids. I would guess that you are actually saying that we are baptized in our mother's womb, right? Is that then the baptism you are referring to and not the baptism with water administered to a believer?

So what is it really that you want to mean?

Tong
R0713

 

[Cristo Rei]

And where does it ever say that we are saved while still here on earth?

When Scripture is mis-understood, it leads to a multitude of errors for billions of people.

LoL. Claiming that we're (Catholics/Orthodox) mis-understanding scripture without showing how isn't a strong position.

As far as billions of people being mis-lead goes I have to disagree. These are irrelevant details we are talking about.
Look, I've have been baptized and believe in Christ. So have you right? We're going to the same place with the same credentials.

 

[Joseph77]

......

 

[Cristo Rei]

The false church from / in / continuing in rome was thoroughly exposed as false all along. Totally corrupt. Never right.

Where did that come from... That's not what we were talking about. We were talking about the interpretations of born again.
Such a massive shift to a whole other topic. I sense much anger and hate, calm down mate.
Im not here to discuss RCC conspiracy theories, just born again.

We've been baptized and we believe in Christ. God Bless

 

[Cristo Rei]

But did you not say "When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER"? And here you say that born of water means born from your mother's bodily fluids. I would guess that you are actually saying that we are baptized in our mother's womb, right? Is that then the baptism you are referring to and not the baptism with water administered to a believer?

So what is it really that you want to mean?

No, you've missed the discussion. I was presenting both sides

So what you are really saying is that when Jesus said "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God", what He is really saying is that, unless one is born from his mother and is born of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. In other words, Jesus was saying to Nicodemus, unless you are born from your mother and are born of the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God. Well, if that makes sense to you, so be it with you.

No, again you've just missed the discussion. That is his view. My view is that of the RCC

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes you can quote scripture but what are you on about??

When sarcasm proved itself the cheapest wit once, it goes bankrupt.