Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.

[Truther]

Thomas wasn't saying that Jesus was The God of creation when he exclaimed, "My Lord and my God" because he knew that Jesus had a Father that was his Father and Thomas knew that Jesus had a God that was his God. That person who is Jesus' Father and God is The God of Creation.

You are kidding, right?...

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

And no, he wasn't saying "oh my God"!

 

[Truther]

Do you see how you show only part of the scripture? The part that says, "for it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell."

Same thing.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Yes, in this scripture God has a Father.

So, Jesus is God.

Yes, in this scripture God has a Father.

So, Jesus is God.

You misunderstood what I said. I'm saying these scriptures at Rev. 1:5,6, are telling us that Jesus who is The Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and a God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You are kidding, right?...

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

And no, he wasn't saying "oh my God"![/QUOTE\]

No, I'm not kidding. I'm not going to ignore scripture. The scriptures tell us that Jesus himself said he had a Father and God. Thomas knew that Jesus said that. I don't think Thomas thought Jesus was wrong when Jesus said he had a Father and God.
So when Thomas said, "My Lord and God," he wasn't saying that Jesus was The Only True God because he knew that The Only True God has no Father or God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Same thing.

No, it's not the same thing. That last half of that scripture shows it was the Only True God's decision for all the fulness of the divine nature to be in Jesus who is The Only Begotten Son of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

You misunderstood what I said. I'm saying these scriptures at Rev. 1:5,6, are telling us that Jesus who is The Only Begotten Son of God has a Father and a God.

It says clearly in that verse that God has a Father. Of course that God is Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

Open your eyes and see, @BARNEY BRIGHT.

 

[Randy Kluth]

1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

Yet, that is what 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 implies.

That isn't the appropriate equation. That implies equality between them all, and they are not the same unit or quantity. The Father is greater than the Son. That means God revealed Himself in a condensed, human form--well below the spread of an infinite Being.

But if you add up each Person you will get the same God in each Person--1 x 1 x 1 = 1. All 3 Persons are the 1 God. But each Person is distinct and has his own value. So when we add each Person we get 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 Persons

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

It says clearly in that verse that God has a Father. Of course that God is Jesus.

No, it doesn't but you're only going to believe what you believe and interpret it that way and not care what's written down in scripture.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Open your eyes and see, @BARNEY BRIGHT.

none of what you posted teaches that Jesus is God.

 

[justbyfaith]

That isn't the appropriate equation. That implies equality between them all, and they are not the same unit or quantity. The Father is greater than the Son.

The Father is greater only as concerning Jesus' humanity.

Concerning the Deity of Christ, they are co-equal (John 5:18).

 

[Cooper]

He only preexisted in the mind/will of God...which is reality to God.

He was even murdered before the world began(Rev 13:8), which is reality to God.

God knew and saw the man Jesus before He made the world, then made everything by, for and through Jesus... this includes Adam which was made in the image of the man Christ Jesus(Romans 5:14).

God transcends time, so He is able to chat with the future man Christ Jesus per Psalm 2 in "real time".

God is incredibly smart.

The pre-existence of Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. (John 1:1-2)

John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” (John 1:15)

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Joh 3:13)

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. (Joh 6:46)

What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? (Joh 6:62)

Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. (Joh 8:14)

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (Joh 16:28)

Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.(John 17:5)

What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us (1 John 1:1-2)

He (Jesus) is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.(Colossians 1:17)

Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.(Hebrews 7:3)

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:13)

When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. (Revelation 1:17-18)
.

 

[Cooper]

No, Jesus has a God and all of his God is inside his omnipresent body, making Jesus(his) God by default(Col 2:9).

This is how the baby/son is called, after resurrecting, the Everlasting Father/Mighty God.

The Everlasting Father, fathers mankind through Jesus his human son.

That is only relevant for the 33 years Christ was on earth.

God (Jesus) BECAME man. Who was he before he became man?

 

[Cooper]

God sent Himself?

By becoming man.
.

 

[Truther]

By becoming man.
.

So, you must then make every statement that Jesus or anyone else in the Bible that says "God sent His son" etc, into "God sent Himself".

This means you do not agree with the words in the Bible.

How do I know?...I used to do that too.

Here is a random example of how you rethink verses...


14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me as God.

2 In my OWN house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto ME, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known MYSELF also: and from henceforth ye know ME, and have seen ME.


etc.

 

[Truther]

That is only relevant for the 33 years Christ was on earth.

God (Jesus) BECAME man. Who was he before he became man?

Rather man was made God.

God did not become man, but made a man.

Jesus originated as a microscopic sperm cell to mate with Mary's egg to be made a man.

That is how the son of David(son of man) etc was made.

Can you think of any other way that Jesus was in the blood line of man?

 

[Truther]

The pre-existence of Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. (John 1:1-2)

John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” (John 1:15)

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Joh 3:13)

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. (Joh 6:46)

What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? (Joh 6:62)

Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. (Joh 8:14)

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (Joh 16:28)

Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.(John 17:5)

What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us (1 John 1:1-2)

He (Jesus) is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.(Colossians 1:17)

Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.(Hebrews 7:3)

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:13)

When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. (Revelation 1:17-18)
.

You just confirmed that the word of God that made everything in John 1:3 also made a sperm cell in verse 14.

The begotten son of God came not only from God, but from Mary.(her egg cell).

All this time you thought Jesus started life as a man, not microscopic?

 

[Truther]

No, it's not the same thing. That last half of that scripture shows it was the Only True God's decision for all the fulness of the divine nature to be in Jesus who is The Only Begotten Son of God.

No, Col 2:9 is not self debunking.

It says every bit of what God consists of dwells in the body of Jesus.

Every verse around it advocates the same.

It is you that are attempting to weaken the verse into "part of God...".

 

[Truther]

No, I'm not kidding. I'm not going to ignore scripture. The scriptures tell us that Jesus himself said he had a Father and God. Thomas knew that Jesus said that. I don't think Thomas thought Jesus was wrong when Jesus said he had a Father and God.
So when Thomas said, "My Lord and God," he wasn't saying that Jesus was The Only True God because he knew that The Only True God has no Father or God.

He was indeed saying that Jesus was the only true God.

You must prove in the passage that Thomas was thinking Jesus was not the true God.

You cannot, so you must deny Thomas.

You doubt Thomas, Barney....a Thomas doubter.

 

[Truther]

That is only relevant for the 33 years Christ was on earth.

God (Jesus) BECAME man. Who was he before he became man?

A human son in the mind/will of God, which is reality to God.

God even KNEW Jeremiah before his parents conceived him.

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


Wow, God is smart.