Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.

[Cooper]

I have nothing to say to you. I do not even want to say your name.

 

[Truther]

Oh boy!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

No, Col 2:9 is not self debunking.

It says every bit of what God consists of dwells in the body of Jesus.

Every verse around it advocates the same.

It is you that are attempting to weaken the verse into "part of God...".

no, I just agree with scripture that says that all the fulness of the divine nature that's in Jesus Christ is in him because of the decision of The Only True God who is the Father and God of Jesus

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

He was indeed saying that Jesus was the only true God.

You must prove in the passage that Thomas was thinking Jesus was not the true God.

You cannot, so you must deny Thomas.

You doubt Thomas, Barney....a Thomas doubter.

I let the record of the scriptures testify to the truth. Thomas knew that Jesus had admitted that he had a Father and a God who was also Thomas Father and God. I'm not going to deny this just because you and others want me to. what you and others choose to believe is your choice

 

[Truther]

I let the record of the scriptures testify to the truth. Thomas knew that Jesus had admitted that he had a Father and a God who was also Thomas Father and God. I'm not going to deny this just because you and others want me to. what you and others choose to believe is your choice

So you doubt Thomas that said "my Lord and my God"?

 

[Truther]

no, I just agree with scripture that says that all the fulness of the divine nature that's in Jesus Christ is in him because of the decision of The Only True God who is the Father and God of Jesus

That is not at all what Col 2:9 says....


9 For in(INSIDE) him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead(INDWELLS EVERY BIT OF GOD) bodily(IN HIS BODY).


You have equated Jesus to just having the Holy Ghost like us, Barney.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So you doubt Thomas that said "my Lord and my God"?

NO, I just doubt what you say it means.

 

[justbyfaith]

It goes to show that denial of Christ's Deity is a heart issue and not an intellectual one.

 

[101G]

No! 1 + 1 + 1 = 1? There are 3 Persons of the Trinity. And although they are each the one God, they remain 3 distinct Persons. They cannot be made into each other. They each share the divine attribute, the divine identity, but they remain distinct Persons.

so you have two CREATORS, and that's polytheism, I knew you believed in more that one God, and try to hid it by saying 1 + 1 + 1 = 1? that's modalism in reverse...

Isaiah 44:24, states that he, he, he, ONE PERSON was "ALONE" and by ... now get this, by "HIMSELF" that's ONE PERSON. many say that they are christian, followers of Christ, but don't believe what he say. if the person in John 1:3 is not the person in Isaiah 44:24, then you just called God a lier, (God forbid). because you're saying that he was not alone, nor by himself, which he clearly states in Isaiah 44:24. no wonder why he separates the goats on his left from the sheep on his right, and can you believe the goats call him Lord, Lord. when a christian cannot believe what the Lord God say then ......... I don't need to go any futher with you.

so good day.

PICJAG.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So you doubt Thomas that said "my Lord and my God"?

I already told you that the scriptures show us that Thomas said, "My Lord and my God" at John 20:28 but that doesn't mean that Thomas was believing that Jesus was The Only True God who created all things since Thomas knew that Jesus said that he has a Father who is Thomas Father and that Jesus said he has a God who is Thomas God at John 20:17

 

[justbyfaith]

I already told you that the scriptures show us that Thomas said, "My Lord and my God" at John 20:28 but that doesn't mean that Thomas was believing that Jesus was The Only True God who created all things since Thomas knew that Jesus said that he has a Father who is Thomas Father and that Jesus said he has a God who is Thomas God at John 20:17

And we have shown you by the statement "God and His Father" that God (the Son) has a Father.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That is not at all what Col 2:9 says....


9 For in(INSIDE) him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead(INDWELLS EVERY BIT OF GOD) bodily(IN HIS BODY).


You have equated Jesus to just having the Holy Ghost like us, Barney.

I simply don't disregard Colossians 1:19 which tells us that whatever fullness that Jesus has, including the fullness of the divine nature talked about at Colossians 2:9 belongs to Jesus because it was the decision of The Only True God that Jesus have that divine nature. You can argue all you want but The Only True God doesn't have his divine nature because of a decision of someone giving The Only True God his divine nature, but The Only True God did give Jesus his divine nature.
Some scholars have viewed this expression' "My Lord and my God" as an exclamation of astonishment that Thomas spoke to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father.
However, others claim the greek language requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus. Even if this is true, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,” there is no reason for believing that Thomas thought Jesus was the Almighty God. (John 20:17) John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.” (John 20:30,31) So John wrote everything that he wrote in the gospel of John to convince people that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, not God

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

And we have shown you by the statement "God and His Father" that God has a Father.

No, actually you haven't. It's only in your own mind have you convinced yourself that Jesus is God and that Jesus who you say is God has a Father. I don't believe this you do.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, actually you haven't. It's only in your own mind have you convinced yourself that Jesus is God and that Jesus who you say is God has a Father. I don't believe this you do.

I believe that you are simply willfully blind to what the scriptures are saying in these verses; for they clearly say, "God and His Father." question 1) who is God's Father, and 2) who is God here.

 

[Randy Kluth]

so you have two CREATORS, and that's polytheism, I knew you believed in more that one God, and try to hid it by saying 1 + 1 + 1 = 1? that's modalism in reverse...

Isaiah 44:24, states that he, he, he, ONE PERSON was "ALONE" and by ... now get this, by "HIMSELF" that's ONE PERSON. many say that they are christian, followers of Christ, but don't believe what he say. if the person in John 1:3 is not the person in Isaiah 44:24, then you just called God a lier, (God forbid). because you're saying that he was not alone, nor by himself, which he clearly states in Isaiah 44:24. no wonder why he separates the goats on his left from the sheep on his right, and can you believe the goats call him Lord, Lord. when a christian cannot believe what the Lord God say then ......... I don't need to go any futher with you.

so good day.

PICJAG.

You may not want to go on with me, but I do want to go on with you, on behalf of others who may read. I fully understand where you're coming from because I went through the same gyrations--way back in the mid-70s! And I was as "determined" as you to make sense of all this.

But I'm more experienced now. I know how it sounds. I do *not* believe in separate Gods. I believe separate Persons, representing the same God, each created the universe. I know it's crazy, but that's our God. He has revealed Himself to us as 3 distinct Persons. Anything else is Arianism or Modalism. And both have been exposed as heresy in history. So you're not just attacking me, brother--you're attacking the entire historical Church.

 

[Truther]

I simply don't disregard Colossians 1:19 which tells us that whatever fullness that Jesus has, including the fullness of the divine nature talked about at Colossians 2:9 belongs to Jesus because it was the decision of The Only True God that Jesus have that divine nature. You can argue all you want but The Only True God doesn't have his divine nature because of a decision of someone giving The Only True God his divine nature, but The Only True God did give Jesus his divine nature.
Some scholars have viewed this expression' "My Lord and my God" as an exclamation of astonishment that Thomas spoke to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father.
However, others claim the greek language requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus. Even if this is true, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,” there is no reason for believing that Thomas thought Jesus was the Almighty God. (John 20:17) John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.” (John 20:30,31) So John wrote everything that he wrote in the gospel of John to convince people that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, not God

Barney....it does not say in Col 2:9 that Jesus was given a "divine nature".

Can't you see what you are doing with your rebuttal of mass commentary regarding Col 2:9?

It explicitly says every bit of the GODHEAD is embodied inside Jesus, not "God's nature" in Jesus.

Think about what your beliefs are doing to the demotion of Jesus.

Yes, he has a God, but his God is nowhere to be found outside Jesus' body per the verse.

You have a midget messiah.

 

[Truther]

I already told you that the scriptures show us that Thomas said, "My Lord and my God" at John 20:28 but that doesn't mean that Thomas was believing that Jesus was The Only True God who created all things since Thomas knew that Jesus said that he has a Father who is Thomas Father and that Jesus said he has a God who is Thomas God at John 20:17

Just admitted to me that you doubt Thomas.

Don't forget, Jesus NEVER rebuked Thomas for the first Apostolic decree that Jesus is God.

 

[Truther]

NO, I just doubt what you say it means.

You really do doubt Thomas.

And all these years, you heard folks make fun of "doubting Thomas", when all along, you doubted Thomas the Apostle yourself.

 

[101G]

You may not want to go on with me, but I do want to go on with you, on behalf of others who may read. I fully understand where you're coming from because I went through the same gyrations--way back in the mid-70s! And I was as "determined" as you to make sense of all this.

But I'm more experienced now. I know how it sounds. I do *not* believe in separate Gods. I believe separate Persons, representing the same God, each created the universe. I know it's crazy, but that's our God. He has revealed Himself to us as 3 distinct Persons. Anything else is Arianism or Modalism. And both have been exposed as heresy in history. So you're not just attacking me, brother--you're attacking the entire historical Church.

your misconceptions are misguided. 101G is not attacking anyone, it's the Lord Jesus just making you his footstool, (per Psalms 110:1)...

you have no clue who the Father really is, for you speak carnal. let's quickly prove it. who holds the title "FATHER?" answer, the conceiver of a child correct... good, now this, Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."

now Randy Kluth, just for argument sake, if I 101G conceived a child in, lets say Mary Jane, is you the "Father?".... NO, of course not. 101G whould be the Father. now the scriptures states it was the Holy Ghost who conceived the child in Mary. so who is the "Father" Randy?. I suggest you re-read those verses again.

now, don't you, in your doctrine, call the Holy Ghost the third person who is not the one whom you call the ... "Father", your first person?

so Randy who is the real "Father" of Mary's child?

will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

 

[Randy Kluth]

your misconceptions are misguided. 101G is not attacking anyone, it's the Lord Jesus just making you his footstool, (per Psalms 110:1)...

you have no clue who the Father really is, for you speak carnal. let's quickly prove it. who holds the title "FATHER?" answer, the conceiver of a child correct... good, now this, Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."

now Randy Kluth, just for argument sake, if I 101G conceived a child in, lets say Mary Jane, is you the "Father?".... NO, of course not. 101G whould be the Father. now the scriptures states it was the Holy Ghost who conceived the child in Mary. so who is the "Father" Randy?. I suggest you re-read those verses again.

now, don't you, in your doctrine, call the Holy Ghost the third person who is not the one whom you call the ... "Father", your first person?

so Randy who is the real "Father" of Mary's child?

will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

The Scriptures say the Holy Spirit "conceived" Jesus. Fathering a human being through sexual reproduction is not what God did, and therefore is not comparable.

Shame on you for comparing it this way! You make God into a man?

The Scriptures say that "God is not a man," meaning that God may reveal Himself in human form, but never can be reduced exclusively to humanity. This is making God into a false image, or idol.

To worship the true God is to acknowledge that He is far above producing the Son by sexual reproduction! He produced Jesus from His own personality, and thereby produced a 2nd Person representing Himself. Jesus and the Father are therefore not "each other." They are distinct just as that which is revealed is distinct from the One who reveals it.

In the same way, God produced a revelation of the man Jesus, who must be distinguished from Him who produced this revelation. And the two cannot be confused. God is no way "fathered" Jesus in the way men do, but rather, produced Jesus *by revelation.*

And he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, and not by the Holy Spirit having sexual relations with Mary--which is not what I think you're suggesting regardless. I just wish you to see the absurdity of your argument.