'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

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Joseph77

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Luke 24:39 - Bible Gateway
www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke 24:39
"Touch me and see,

because a ·ghost [spirit] does not have ·a living body [L flesh and bones] as you see I have." GNV Behold mine hands and my feet:

for it is I myself: handle me, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
 

Earburner

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Why is this your comment on my post? Can't you read, have I said anything about <the Holy Spirit>? Is the Holy Spirit a.t.y., <<any kind of consciousness or unconsciousness, whatsoever!>>? Crazy!
You should explain then, how the unsaved "lived in the grave".
.
 

Earburner

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That is incorrect. The Greek word in Matthew 10:28 is Gehenna which is eternal Hell -- the Lake of Fire. It is DEFINITELY NOT the grave.

It is very unfortunate that the KJV translators used the same word "hell for (1) Sheol, (2) Hades, (2) Gehenna, and (4) Tartarus. Then they also turned around and called "Sheol" the grave, when it is the region of departed souls and spirits in "the heart of the hearth" or "the lower parts of the earth" or near the core of the earth.

The only thing found in graves is dust. But souls and spirits either go to Hades (or Sheol/Hades) or to Heaven. Those who go to Sheol/Hades will eventually go to Gehenna -- the Lake of Fire. And *destruction* (apollumi) does not mean annihilation, but total ruination -- eternal anguish and torment.
Your varied understanding, about death and hell, is all due to your false belief that man has an eternal soul.
 

Earburner

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^ Rev. 20[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Enoch,
don't you yet know that half of what Jesus would say, was to keep the "self righteous" busy?
 

Earburner

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Well, you're getting closer to what Paul said, but you failed to include these verses where Apostle Paul nailed what the "spiritual body" is...

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The "first man Adam" is literally about the first flesh man Adam which God formed in His Garden per Genesis 2. But the "last Adam" represents Christ and the resurrection. Notice that state of the last Adam Paul there says, "was made a quickening spirit". That is about our Lord Jesus' resurrected body. It is a spiritual type body, even though His spiritual body retained the marks of His crucifixion, and His flesh body was transfigured to the spiritual body type. That's what that body is, a 'spiritual body'.


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul doesn't leave us hanging as to how... he meant those ideas of natural vs. spiritual. The flesh body (natural) is first, and then the spiritual body afterward (meaning after we die, or are changed on the "last trump" he covers later).


47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Paul then links this latter spiritual body state with our Lord Jesus' resurrection to a quickening spirit state in the Heavenly. And just to make sure we understand he is speaking of another dimension type body and not flesh, he continues to contrast the two...


48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Those in the flesh are earthy, those like the angels are heavenly. Paul is contrasting two different dimensions of existence, just as our Lord Jesus did also in John 3 and Matthew 10:28.


49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Just as we have borne the "image of the earthy" (flesh body), so also we shall bear the "image of the heavenly".


What is that "image of the heavenly"? It is the image body the angels have in the heavenly dimension; our Lord Jesus told us about that future state as the resurrection, so Paul is only agreeing with our Lord Jesus here in 1 Cor.15 (Matthew 22:30).

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


Then Paul is adamant that the resurrection body is NOT one of flesh and blood.
"Then Paul is adamant that the resurrection body is NOT one of flesh and blood."
> Absolutely! However, the resurrection body of Christ was "flesh and bone" having NEW life by The Spirit, and not (no longer) by blood. Therefore of assurety, Jesus was not just only Spirit.
 

Davy

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"Then Paul is adamant that the resurrection body is NOT one of flesh and blood."
> Absolutely! However, the resurrection body of Christ was "flesh and bone" having NEW life by The Spirit, and not (no longer) by blood. Therefore of assurety, Jesus was not just only Spirit.

Your 2nd statement, not really. Christ's flesh body was 'transfigured' to the heavenly body state, which is why He could suddenly appear amid His disciples and then suddenly disappear again, not walking in through the door. A flesh body has to walk in through the door. When He said a 'ghost' has not flesh and bones as He said He had, that was the spiritual body, a heavenly body, which has substance, because it can eat man's food and live upon the earth, as shown in Genesis 18 & 19, and other Scripture about the angelic state.

I'm sorry that you disagree with brother Apostle Paul. He is no longer here to defend what he said about this, showing that the state of our Lord Jesus' resurrection was to "a quickening spirit". But I have no problem defending what he said:

1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

KJV
 
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CadyandZoe

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Well, you're getting closer to what Paul said, but you failed to include these verses where Apostle Paul nailed what the "spiritual body" is...

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The "first man Adam" is literally about the first flesh man Adam which God formed in His Garden per Genesis 2. But the "last Adam" represents Christ and the resurrection. Notice that state of the last Adam Paul there says, "was made a quickening spirit". That is about our Lord Jesus' resurrected body. It is a spiritual type body, even though His spiritual body retained the marks of His crucifixion, and His flesh body was transfigured to the spiritual body type. That's what that body is, a 'spiritual body'.


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul doesn't leave us hanging as to how... he meant those ideas of natural vs. spiritual. The flesh body (natural) is first, and then the spiritual body afterward (meaning after we die, or are changed on the "last trump" he covers later).


47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Paul then links this latter spiritual body state with our Lord Jesus' resurrection to a quickening spirit state in the Heavenly. And just to make sure we understand he is speaking of another dimension type body and not flesh, he continues to contrast the two...


48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Those in the flesh are earthy, those like the angels are heavenly. Paul is contrasting two different dimensions of existence, just as our Lord Jesus did also in John 3 and Matthew 10:28.


49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Just as we have borne the "image of the earthy" (flesh body), so also we shall bear the "image of the heavenly".


What is that "image of the heavenly"? It is the image body the angels have in the heavenly dimension; our Lord Jesus told us about that future state as the resurrection, so Paul is only agreeing with our Lord Jesus here in 1 Cor.15 (Matthew 22:30).

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


Then Paul is adamant that the resurrection body is NOT one of flesh and blood.

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

It is my opinion that Paul speaks of agency here, since his focus has narrowed down to that which God has made. The first Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. One must be familiar with the Genesis account in order to fully understand his point.

In Genesis 1:27 we read

Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.


God formed a body for Adam from the dust of the ground, but breathed life into his nostrils in order to make Adam a living being. With regard to Adam's physicality, he was made from the dust of the ground. Even so, a living being is much more than a physical being. To see this idea, let's take a quick look at another verse in context.

Genesis 2:19
Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.


Not only did God form Adam from the dust of the ground, he also formed the animals out of the ground. This verse also refers to beasts of the field and birds of the air as "living creatures." Unless we believe that Adam chose an animals name at random, which is unlikely, the name Adam gave to each animal indicated something unique about that animal kind, which was different than all the other animals. In a sense, Adam was the first person to engage in taxonomy, describing and classifying animals according to their unique features and characteristics. This would not only include a description of their physicality, but also their behavior and their domain. Even in Genesis 2:19 we have qualifiers such as bird "of the sky", which help to distinguish birds from beasts.

A living creature is more than physicality; a living creature has personality, and behaviors, which set it apart from other creatures. Foxes have holes and birds have nests. Not only this, animals live in community and exhibit social behavior. They relate differently to other animals of their kind depending if the animal is young or an adult; whether the animal is male or female; whether the animal is healthy or hurt.

The point is, a creature is "living" not simply because it breathes air; a "living creature" is a being that exhibits a complex set of behaviors and activities unique to that kind of animal. Even Adam is described as a "living soul", which includes his occupation, his profession, his values, his concerns, his outlook, and his social relationships.

The contrast here is between the original man's quality as a living being and the new man's quality as one who is able to restore life to others.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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People who do not have the Holy Spirit, CANNOT live on after their fleshly life, in any kind consciousness or unconsciousness, whatsoever!

People who did not receive Everlasting Life through Christ the Ï-AM The Life and the Resurrection IN THIS LIFE <<their fleshly life>>, CANNOT live on after EXCEPT in FULL consciousness when they shall receive their reward, the reward of sin, death.

STOP TWISTING THE SCRIPTURES; you're not smart, but act and seem like dense.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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In my studies, I have found that the correct meaning of the word is the meaning that the author intended. In this case, Paul the Apostle is defending his gospel, which includes the doctrine of Resurrection. In this context he is answering two questions, "how are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" The second question seeks information concerning the kind of body given to the resurrected; the first question is concerned with the means by which the body comes into existence.

At this point in the argument, Paul will attempt to bracket the concept by pairing up contrasting qualities of the resurrected body or at other times pairing up contrasting agencies of production. It's important to bear in mind that each pair answer to the same question.

42 It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
The contrasted pair above is perishable :: imperishable, which answers to the question "what kind?"

43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory;
The contrasted pair above is dishonor :: glory. I believe this answers to the question, "what kind",which suggests our sinful nature. All sinners die in dishonor, because death itself condemns us as a sinner. Glorification, then, is the transformation of the sinner into a glorious, righteous, good, person with moral courage. And the agency of this transformation is God himself

it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
The contrasted pair above is weakness :: power. This contrast is reminiscent of Romans 8:1-4, which answers to the question of means. What the law could not do because of the weakness of our flesh, God did by sending his own son, and etc. Again this is a contrast of agency: what we can not do for ourselves; God has done for us.

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
Here is our verse, the one in question.
The contrasted pair above is natural :: spiritual. While the term "spiritual" can answer to the question of kind, natural answers to the question of means. Te term "spiritual" stands in contrast to "natural", not "physical". Therefore, the definition of "spiritual" is the opposite of "natural."

Paul often uses the word "natural" to indicate the way things exist and function in nature. So for instance, in Romans 1:26 he says, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, " indicating a contrast between what nature normally expects, i.e. a woman sleeps with a man, as compared to that which is unnatural, i.e a woman sleeps with another woman.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
The contrasted pair above is natural :: spiritual. This pair contrasts the body which nature provides and the body which God will provide. Animals are born into this world, with a mother and father that nature provides. The body of this animal is its natural body. This answers to the question, "from where did this body come"? The natural body comes naturally from a mother and father.

A "spiritual body" by contrast, is a miracle body that God provides apart from the natural processes of physics and chemistry and biology. "Spiritual" in this context means "supernatural", i.e. brought into existence by God outside of the normal processes.

Quickly read, nevertheless, AMEN God bless
 

Davy

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1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

It is my opinion that Paul speaks of agency here, since his focus has narrowed down to that which God has made. The first Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. One must be familiar with the Genesis account in order to fully understand his point.

In Genesis 1:27 we read

Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.


God formed a body for Adam from the dust of the ground, but breathed life into his nostrils in order to make Adam a living being. With regard to Adam's physicality, he was made from the dust of the ground. Even so, a living being is much more than a physical being. To see this idea, let's take a quick look at another verse in context.

Genesis 2:19
Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.


Not only did God form Adam from the dust of the ground, he also formed the animals out of the ground. This verse also refers to beasts of the field and birds of the air as "living creatures." Unless we believe that Adam chose an animals name at random, which is unlikely, the name Adam gave to each animal indicated something unique about that animal kind, which was different than all the other animals. In a sense, Adam was the first person to engage in taxonomy, describing and classifying animals according to their unique features and characteristics. This would not only include a description of their physicality, but also their behavior and their domain. Even in Genesis 2:19 we have qualifiers such as bird "of the sky", which help to distinguish birds from beasts.

A living creature is more than physicality; a living creature has personality, and behaviors, which set it apart from other creatures. Foxes have holes and birds have nests. Not only this, animals live in community and exhibit social behavior. They relate differently to other animals of their kind depending if the animal is young or an adult; whether the animal is male or female; whether the animal is healthy or hurt.

The point is, a creature is "living" not simply because it breathes air; a "living creature" is a being that exhibits a complex set of behaviors and activities unique to that kind of animal. Even Adam is described as a "living soul", which includes his occupation, his profession, his values, his concerns, his outlook, and his social relationships.

The contrast here is between the original man's quality as a living being and the new man's quality as one who is able to restore life to others.

What you are doing is going backwards, trying to apply the limited information given in Genesis 2 of how God put a soul into a flesh body while disregarding the greater detail that Apostle Paul gave in 1 Corinthians 15 (and 2 Corinthians 5), and that Lord Jesus Himself gave (like Matthew 10:28; Luke 16:19-31; Luke 23:43; John 3). You didn't even get to Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 which makes it plain that our spirit is not of our flesh. All you've done is misapply God's Word into some carnal fleshy doctrine of men, just so you can keep your own tradition.

The total evidence combined throughout all of God's Word showing how God created us reveals He placed our spirit with a soul into a flesh body in woman's womb at conception. The idea of being made a 'living soul' is actually about our spirit-soul part being made manifest in a flesh body that came from the dust of the ground. Our spirit-soul part did NOT come from the dust of the earth! It came from God Himself as He created each soul in the heavenly. And at flesh death, our spirit with soul goes back to God, and it is not just some spirit force that permeates all living things. That spirit-soul is an individual person.

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

KJV

Those who believe the lie that our spirit with soul is just something that came out of the dust of the earth are like primitive tribal savages, not knowing their left from their right.
 

CadyandZoe

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What you are doing is going backwards, trying to apply the limited information given in Genesis 2 of how God put a soul into a flesh body while disregarding the greater detail that Apostle Paul gave in 1 Corinthians 15 (and 2 Corinthians 5), and that Lord Jesus Himself gave (like Matthew 10:28; Luke 16:19-31; Luke 23:43; John 3). You didn't even get to Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 which makes it plain that our spirit is not of our flesh. All you've done is misapply God's Word into some carnal fleshy doctrine of men, just so you can keep your own tradition.
I disagree with your premise that Genesis 2 describes "how God put a soul into a flesh body." This is not what the text actually says. It says that God breathed into Adam's nostrils and he became a living being -- a living soul. In this context, the "soul" is not the third part of a tripartite being; the term "soul" indicates the whole person. And I believe we can extrapolate from the word "living" that Adam was more than an animated creature; he "lived" in the fullest sense of the word.

The total evidence combined throughout all of God's Word showing how God created us reveals He placed our spirit with a soul into a flesh body in woman's womb at conception. The idea of being made a 'living soul' is actually about our spirit-soul part being made manifest in a flesh body that came from the dust of the ground.
I suspect that your "evidence" has included extra-biblical information, perhaps from Greek philosophical thought.

Our spirit-soul part did NOT come from the dust of the earth! It came from God Himself as He created each soul in the heavenly. And at flesh death, our spirit with soul goes back to God, and it is not just some spirit force that permeates all living things. That spirit-soul is an individual person.
I don't know what I said that would lead anyone to think that the spirit-soul part came from the dust of the ground.
 

Davy

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I disagree with your premise that Genesis 2 describes "how God put a soul into a flesh body."

I know you disagree with that, because you deny all the other... Scriptures that detail just what God did at His creation of man's spirit with a soul into a flesh body. So your textual argument is simply not sound at all!

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

KJV
 

Davy

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I suspect that your "evidence" has included extra-biblical information, perhaps from Greek philosophical thought.

Now you turn to making false accusations, since it's obvious I have shown how you DENY clear and plain Bible Scripture about how God created us.

2 Cor 5:1-8
5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV


What are you doing here on a Christian forum, since it's obvious you don't follow what The New Testament says, but instead follow old orthodox Jewish traditional confusion with wrongly thinking our soul comes from the dust of the earth?
 

CadyandZoe

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I know you disagree with that, because you deny all the other... Scriptures that detail just what God did at His creation of man's spirit with a soul into a flesh body. So your textual argument is simply not sound at all!

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

KJV

Perhaps the "scriptures" you propose don't actually exist?

Also, with regard to Matthew 10:28, the contrast is between the body and the soul; one a man can kill, while the other a man can not kill. The question is, why can't man kill the soul? One might conclude that man can not kill the soul because the soul is indestructible. But Jesus didn't say that and the Bible doesn't teach that. This is a conclusion or an assumption that one might bring to the text.

Jesus clearly says that God is able to destroy the soul in hell, from which we learn that indeed, the soul is not indestructible. The limitation is man and his ability to destroy things. Man can destroy many things, but not everything. That is Jesus' point. Don't fear man, whose destructive powers are limited; fear God who has unlimited destructive power.
 

CadyandZoe

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Now you turn to making false accusations, since it's obvious I have shown how you DENY clear and plain Bible Scripture about how God created us.

2 Cor 5:1-8
5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV


What are you doing here on a Christian forum, since it's obvious you don't follow what The New Testament says, but instead follow old orthodox Jewish traditional confusion with wrongly thinking our soul comes from the dust of the earth?
Your accusation is untrue. I never said that the soul or the spirit come from the dust of the ground. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth?

You seem critical of my textual arguments. These are the only kind of arguments that give proper attention to the text at hand. Perhaps you would like to share your thoughts on the text you quoted? What does this text contribute to our discussion?
 

Davy

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Perhaps the "scriptures" you propose don't actually exist?

Also, with regard to Matthew 10:28, the contrast is between the body and the soul; one a man can kill, while the other a man can not kill. The question is, why can't man kill the soul? One might conclude that man can not kill the soul because the soul is indestructible. But Jesus didn't say that and the Bible doesn't teach that. This is a conclusion or an assumption that one might bring to the text.

Jesus clearly says that God is able to destroy the soul in hell, from which we learn that indeed, the soul is not indestructible. The limitation is man and his ability to destroy things. Man can destroy many things, but not everything. That is Jesus' point. Don't fear man, whose destructive powers are limited; fear God who has unlimited destructive power.

Jesus' contrast is easy and simple. Yours is not, which is a sign of either not having understanding in the Scripture, or wanting to toy with the Scripture and change it.

Matthew 10:28 is proof that our 'soul' part cannot be killed by any man, that only God can destroy it. It's as simple as that.

And that simplicity means that our 'soul' part does NOT die at flesh death, but continues. This is required for a soul to perish in the lake of fire, because that is what Jesus was pointing to with geena (old valley of Hinnom burning pit). And if you paid attention in your Bible, you'd know that "lake of fire" event ONLY happens at the future end of Christ's 1,000 years reign, a reign here on earth that doesn't even begin until the day of His 2nd coming.

Since the "lake of fire" perishing doesn't happen until the end... of Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Rev.20, then it means one's 'soul' will CONTINUE to exist even throughout that 1,000 years period! So HOW can a soul do that without a flesh body?? Simple, it's because our soul is hard-linked to our spiritual body, and that is what separates from our flesh at flesh death. The soul with spiritual body does not... die at flesh death, but without Christ is still in a 'liable to die' state at the end of Christ's future millennial reign.
 

Davy

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Your accusation is untrue. I never said that the soul or the spirit come from the dust of the ground. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth?

You seem critical of my textual arguments. These are the only kind of arguments that give proper attention to the text at hand. Perhaps you would like to share your thoughts on the text you quoted? What does this text contribute to our discussion?

You have already shown lack of understanding about the simple matter of spirit, and the spiritual body Apostle Paul taught being a body of the heavenly, not of flesh. All one need do is read your previous posts here. All you do is confuse... the idea, and it's simply because you really don't understand the heavenly dimension and the resurrection, nor even the meaning of Adam being made a "living soul" involving the spiritual body with soul in contrast to flesh.

Jesus said in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. God created us with a spirit too, and it is only bound by the limitations of being in a flesh body, which at flesh death is released from those bounds. And that means it continues to God, and while retaining its personality that God created it with. In this we DEFINITELY are different than animals, which you so conveniently tried to link with the way God created man, which does not work. In Eccl.12:5-7 which says the spirit goes back to God Who gave it, that is not just about some animate force that is in all living things, like plants and animals. The New Testament shows us it isn't, because we are shown by Jesus, and Paul, that we have a spirit with soul that continues to God after flesh death. We don't literally sleep in the ground, which is just an expression.

And that you would compare this with pagan Greek philosophy, when it is actually written Scripture, just shows all the more your lack of understanding on the matter, and instead your desire to follow men's doctrines outside the Scriptures, the very thing you falsely accuse me of!!!