Strange things happen, that's for sure. The second case is harder for me to grasp. In the first case though, your friend was not directly under the control of the demon. The demon said to kill you -- so there was a choice there.
What Does "God Is Love" Mean?
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I missed this somehow, but I just noted it, and if you keep this up we're going to have to start a "marks's greatest hits" thread. Honestly, I don't mean to over-flatter, but this is good stuff.I don't think so!
Hey, how about a pre-post checklist!
Is my posting patient? Am I being kind? Trying to get one over on someone? Show what a great Christian I am? Am I happy over tripping someone up in their words? Am I hoping for the best? Believing good of you? Enduring everything?
There are delete keys for a reason!
Much love!
"pre-post"
No one has greater empathy than God, so it would stand to reason that the Father suffered greatly during the passion of Christ, even though their normal connection was temporarily broken at the time. Also, Christ had to operate on faith that His mission would be successful. He had no test tube proof that He would even be able to come out at the other end of the tunnel. Nice post, G.
This lecture/sermon had my attention from beginning to end and I confess that, to my knowledge, he said nary an erring word throughout. I was a bit surprised that the Holy Spirit only got a passing mention. But I especially enjoyed hearing from someone else that Christ is the only human being that ever possessed life unborrowed. Now if I could just find someone who agrees with me that this is His primary qualification as a Savior. lol
I believe that I am with you on this. It is what has been called by some the "left hand of God". Remember that the goats are on the Left and the sheep are on the Right. Here we see the end result for each:
"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" Matt 25:34
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matt 25:41
The Right hand work is what a follower of Christ should always be doing. But, sometimes, when we falter and stumble a bit quenching the Holy Spirit in us, God may use momentary stumble to accomplish a left hand work. But... we certainly do not want to be at His left hand at the very end of our course.
God will use unbelievers who never even begin a journey toward Him to accomplish the chastisements or curses as they are invoked by some others.
This lecture/sermon had my attention from beginning to end and I confess that, to my knowledge, he said nary an erring word throughout. I was a bit surprised that the Holy Spirit only got a passing mention. But I especially enjoyed hearing from someone else that Christ is the only human being that ever possessed life unborrowed. Now if I could just find someone who agrees with me that this is His primary qualification as a Savior. lol
That's an interesting thought! Let me mull on that one.
Much love!
When Jesus quoted the Psalm about "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me," I see it as a test of his love. Was Jesus doing this to promote himself? Was he doing it to impress the Father? Did Jesus want to gain anything for himself? That would include doing something to "placate" God or to manipulate God. You're right then, I think: He had to face the possibility that he might die and simply go out of existence. He might not be raised in glory.No one has greater empathy than God, so it would stand to reason that the Father suffered greatly during the passion of Christ, even though their normal connection was temporarily broken at the time. Also, Christ had to operate on faith that His mission would be successful. He had no test tube proof that He would even be able to come out at the other end of the tunnel. Nice post, G.
He did it anyway. His motive was Love. It was Love of the highest sort without the slightest self-interest. His faith in the Father told him what should happen, what he believed would happen; but there was no guarantee. If he had such a guarantee, the test wouldn't have been complete.
It reminds me of Abraham's faith. Many believe that God commanded him to sacrifice Isaac. That is not quite right. God told him to take Isaac up to Moriah "for a burnt sacrifice." It's ambiguous. It could mean to make Isaac a burnt sacrifice; but it could also mean Isaac was to go with Abraham to be with him for the burnt sacrifice of something else. Abraham isn't sure what is meant; but he's confident God couldn't mean to offer Isaac as the sacrifice. He told the other people with them that he and Isaac would return. He told Isaac God would provide the lamb. He wasn't completely sure, but his faith in God's goodness told him they would both return safe and sound.
The KJV translates the passage wrong, by the way, saying, " offer him there for a burnt offering." It's amazing how many translations have it wrong. Young's Literal Translation is better:
YLT Genesis 22:2 And He saith, `Take, I pray thee, thy son, thine only one, whom thou hast loved, even Isaac, and go for thyself unto the land of Moriah, and cause him to ascend there for a burnt-offering on one of the mountains of which I speak unto thee.'
The Jews, by the way, say the ram they saw was a spiritual Lamb or Ram which preceded even Eden. God has the solutions to problems before they arise. Thus when Eden was made, it was known things could go wrong. God had the solution if and when they did.
It might make an interesting study to go through the Bible to see who God used to correct His people when they go terribly wrong. I think such a study would show you're right. I think it's pagans and other sinful types who beat them down. I don't see cases where God's people take up arms against even the bad leaders. Jesus did not try to start a revolt against the corrupt priesthood in his time. It was left to the Romans to take that system down.
@Giuliano Those solemn Messianic utterances are so searching, aren't they?
This is certainly one way of describing how love is tested. Ok, if you really love me, I will hit you and see how you react.
As a student, a fellow student gave me a hard time, asking questions etc. and it turned out he was thinking about being confirmed in the anglican church. He was in effect saying, I will test you out like I will be tested out if I make this commitment.
And there is a real wisdom in this approach because there are so many fakes and false convictions, spoken by people who know the words but not the meaning.
One would say this only if he or she were of the Calvinistic persuasion. Calvinism though is A FALSE GOSPEL. So no matter how highly regarded any man is, if he contradicts Scripture and makes God a liar, he cannot be trusted. John Calvin did this all the time. In his commentaries he had no choice except to present what is written and expound on it. Then he turned right around and contradicted that in his theology.
But I especially enjoyed hearing from someone else that Christ is the only human being that ever possessed life unborrowed. Now if I could just find someone who agrees with me that this is His primary qualification as a Savior. lol
Isaiah 63:5
KJV
"And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."
YLT
"And I look attentively, and there is none helping, And I am astonished that there is none supporting, And give salvation to me doth mine own arm. And my wrath -- it hath supported me."
Holman
"I looked, but there was no one to help, and I was amazed that no one assisted; so My arm accomplished victory for Me, and My wrath assisted Me."
That seems to me to be part of the thought here.
No one had anything to give, but God does.
Much love!
I don't think Jesus ever faltered in His faith. He knew from the Scriptures that His Father would raise Him from the dead.
John 16:22 "And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you."
Much love!
I have never made a specific study on it like that, although I have gone into the left hand of God to a certain extent. It would be easy to see where the Israelites in disobedience were put down and then brought back up. A short place to go through looking for examples would be in the book of Judges... as the people swing back and forth between crying out to God and then being sent another judge to pull then out of their mess one more time.
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