Very big GAP in the trinity

[Taken]

Well Ok I disagree, I believe God had a Son and it a repeating theme through the NT unless you are referencing a Jehovah's Wittiness Bible.

I never mentioned any particular Bible to you,
I have given quotes from Scripture.

God Declared His Word in a Body God Prepared would be His Son.
Already gave verifying Scriptures.

Are you completely unaware...
All of Gods "sons" / "children" are Declared?

God is Without A Beginning... He can not "Reproduce" something "without a Beginning"!

Well you are all over the place again.

Did you not notice...I was responding to your comments that were all over the place!

God the Father....so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son....not Himself.


God is His Word!
You are you word...unless someone else is typing and you have no words!

The Son is the Word and did nothing by His will alone but that of His Father's will....

It is always the Fathers Will and Gods Word Always speaks the Father's Will.

Not news...but you do not get the Spiritual Understanding.

The Father is greater than I.

Why? Do you know?

Christ ascended to the Father and sits on a throne to the Father's right.

Really? Uh No.
Why are you changing Scripture?
Scripture tells you PLAINLY it was the "Lord Jesus" men witnessed rising up to the Clouds.


Acts 1
[6] When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
[7] And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
[8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
[12] Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

And again it is the Lord sitting at the right hand of God!

Mark 16:
[19] So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right handof God.

Christ

Uh, don't you mean The Lord Jesus?

was not talking to Himself in the garden when He asked the Father to take this cup from Him. But added not by His will but the Father's. Two persons talking and two wills defined.

So when you talk to yourself...you are Two persons?

You and I are definitely at different distances on the path....don't be so set in your mind...keep studying.

Taken

 

[Taken]

Christ had a body that suffered and a body that bleed. And that body died.

So? That is not in dispute.
Stay on point.

Taken

 

[Truther]

justbyfaith said: ↑
@Truther,

Do you agree with holy scripture that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5)?

Even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

Now see my post above.


Yes and yes.

The Father was inside the son.

well let's see if there is a separate and distinct person as "Father", as also "Son. maybe you can help these fellas out. if there is a separate person that is the Father, please answer me this what i asked Christophany, and it will resolve any Father and Son as separate persons.

Is the Person at John 1:3 the same one Person at Isaiah 44:24 yes or no.

PICJAG.

3 All things were made by him(God); and without him(God) was not any thing made that was made....

24 Thus saith the Lord(God), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord(God) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself(God);


Yes.


Jesus is Lord/God/Father by default, because of every inch of his Father fully indwelling him, bodily.

 

[Enoch111]

Maybe you can answer the same question too, and help Christophany out by rending your answer.

1. If your question is "How is it possible for one God to also exist as three distinct divine persons -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?", the answer is that nothing is impossible with God.

2. If your question is "How was it possible for Jesus of Nazareth to be the Son of Man on earth, and yet be in Heaven at the same time?" the answer is again that with God nothing is impossible.

3. If your question is "How was it possible for Jesus to be fully God and fully Man at one and the same time?" the answer is still the same. No man with limited human ability can fathom God who is unfathomable.

As to your interpretation of kenosis, it does NOT mean that Christ emptied Himself of His deity. First of all the KJV has correctly stated that He "made Himself of no reputation". While the Greek word κενόω literally means empty, when it is properly interpreted (as below) it means "laid aside equality with God", meaning that Christ temporarily laid aside His divine glory and prerogatives as God the Son. But also remained fully God.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2758: κενόω (kenoó)

1. to empty, make empty: ἑαυτόν ἐκένωσε, namely,τοῦ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ or τῆς μορφῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ, i. e. he laid aside equality with or the form of God (said of Christ), Philippians 2:7 ...

Now if you wish to dispute all this to support your false theology, you go right ahead and dispute it all you want. But Bible-believing Christians will discern the truth and shut up. Yes God the Father is a Spirit, and so is the Holy Spirit. But that does not mean that Jesus is the Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit is Christ. That would be absurd.

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus is Lord/God/Father by default, because of every inch of his Father fully indwelling him, bodily.

You still remain mired in confusion. So listen up:
God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son

 

[justbyfaith]

You still remain mired in confusion. So listen up:
God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son

The Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6); while the Father is not the Son (Isaiah 57:15, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the Son and the Father (I'm tired right now and may comment on this later). But the Father and the Son are not the Holy Ghost.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Spirit of Jesus is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11); and He released His Spirit back to the Father in Luke 23:46.

The Father stayed behind in eternity as He also went forward to incarnate as the Son. See Ephesians 3:11. He lived one eternal moment and then incarnated in the Person of Jesus Christ.

The Holy Ghost has behind Him having lived a human life as Jesus Christ; but He is the same Person/Spirit as the Father and the Son. The Father and the Son do not have this experience behind them (except for the resurrected Son has indeed lived a human life).

I'm tired right now so I may not be saying these things to the best of my ability.

But think on these things and see if you can understand the simplicity of our God's Triune nature from what I am saying to you.

There is also a thread that you can look at (will post a link shortly).

See posts #1-#6 in this thread:

True Trinity.

 

[101G]

3 All things were made by him(God); and without him(God) was not any thing made that was made....

24 Thus saith the Lord(God), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord(God) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself(God);


Yes.


Jesus is Lord/God/Father by default, because of every inch of his Father fully indwelling him, bodily.

GINOLJC, to all.
first I thank you for your honesty. yes it's the same "ONE" person, and no you ERROR on, "because of every inch of his Father fully indwelling him, bodily". well that's contradictory, because if he's the SAME one Father/Person, then there is no him to fully indwel, because he is "HIM" the same one person. see your ERROR now.

your doctrine as the title states, a "Very big GAP in the trinity". but I always like to give someone the benefit of the doubt to explain themselves. so please explain how Jesus is the Father in himself bodily, at the same time, yet the ONE in the SAME (Spirit).... Person. so the floor is yours..... (smile).


but one other thing also, answer me this, "if Jesus is the Father as you said, and I agree that he's the same one person in John 1:3, and Isaiah 44:24, if it's the same one person, also tell us who was upholding or running the universe while he the Lord Jesus who is the Father was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') in flesh? and i hopoe you say it was the Holy Spirit..... (Smile).

I want you to know something Truther, I'm putting you futher into the Hole so that you cannot get out, don't say I didn't warn you.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

1. If your question is "How is it possible for one God to also exist as three distinct divine persons -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?", the answer is that nothing is impossible with God.

I'm so glad you said that. "nothing is impossible with God".

now answer my original question, "is the person at John 1:3 is the same person at Isaiah 44:24. and don't beat around the bush, just answer YES or NO please, just as truther did, he told the truth. for the bible clearly tells us HOW he did it.......... (smile).

YOUR ANSWER PLEASE.

if you defend your answer without KNOWING, meaning in INGORANCE, then it's not of Faith, and SIN.... supportive scripture, Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." and Faith is, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1 (kjv). evidence is based on FACTS, that come from KNOWLEDGE, (investigations).... for God himself said in, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

now the bible clearly states, HOW God was in heaven and at the same time when G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') in flesh on earth. now you can argue from "INGORANCE", without (evidence), or you can argue from the BIBLE, the TRUTH, meaning evidence/Faith, KNOWLEDGE. your choice.....

so, "is the person at John 1:3 is the same person at Isaiah 44:24?"

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

At least it’s three honest people on this forum is telling the truth about John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. don’t get me wrong, there are many honest people on this forum... ok, I’m just saying, concerning John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24… that’s all. Now Truther has made that list in acknowledging that it is the same one person in both scriptures. Even Truther admitted that, but he now has to reconcile how the Father , (who is Jesus), is dwelling fully in the Son, (who is Jesus), who is the SAME ONE PERSON. I can't wait to hear that answer, or simply, if he just tells the truth, "he don't know". declaring ignorance is better than telling a lie. I have more honor for a person who tells the truth than make up a lie. if you don't know, you don't know, there is no shame in not knowing. we're not God.

understand me, people have to reason within their own-self in order to see, a. the TRUTH, and or b. the lie.

This is why the Tree of the “KNOWLEDGE” of Good and evil was place in the Garden.

It’s your choice, based on a. the FACTS/the TRUTH, (unto Life), or b. stay in IGNORANCE/the LIE, (until death). it's our choice. God has put it in his word for us to KNOW, and not to lie. choose ... LIFE. there is no need to lie. as the apostle said by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 5:11 "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences."

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

The answer from the Trinitarians to the question why the Messiah, when he is God, has grown in wisdom and prayed, is: "Because he is man".
They say that God get a real human character through his incarnation; but they also say that God the Son was still God while he was man on earth. I repeat, they say that God the Son in heaven was still God while he was man on earth. First, this claim subliminally teaches a second separated person, this means that God the Son cannot be the Messiah and secondly, God the Son who was man on earth worshipped Himself.

My Father is in me.
.

 

[Grailhunter]

I Purposed no such thing. I make a statement, I give A supporting Scripture....Do you require me to Quote Every single Scripture that Is reletive to the point....am I expected to go search all the Scriptures FOR YOU or ANYONE? Eh no.
If you do not care, why should I care FOR you.
If you are not open to following the ORDER and facts as they were revealed....I have done all that is necessary...told you, showed, you. Not my obligation to search for you, or convince you, or Understand for you.

Tahen

Hey I like that attitude

 

[Truther]

GINOLJC, to all.
first I thank you for your honesty. yes it's the same "ONE" person, and no you ERROR on, "because of every inch of his Father fully indwelling him, bodily". well that's contradictory, because if he's the SAME one Father/Person, then there is no him to fully indwel, because he is "HIM" the same one person. see your ERROR now.

your doctrine as the title states, a "Very big GAP in the trinity". but I always like to give someone the benefit of the doubt to explain themselves. so please explain how Jesus is the Father in himself bodily, at the same time, yet the ONE in the SAME (Spirit).... Person. so the floor is yours..... (smile).


but one other thing also, answer me this, "if Jesus is the Father as you said, and I agree that he's the same one person in John 1:3, and Isaiah 44:24, if it's the same one person, also tell us who was upholding or running the universe while he the Lord Jesus who is the Father was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') in flesh? and i hopoe you say it was the Holy Spirit..... (Smile).

I want you to know something Truther, I'm putting you futher into the Hole so that you cannot get out, don't say I didn't warn you.

PICJAG.

The biggest error you can make in your lifetime of theology is denying Col 2:9. You just did it again.

You think only a portion of God dwells in Jesus bodily, and not every bit of God....debunking the 1st century theme of Paul.

Also, the only way Jesus is the Father(his God), is by default of the Col 2:9 effect on his body.

They are not the same being, which would cross wire and short circuit scripture to teach.

God did not become himself....


A modern example of what happened between God and His son can be this....

I(God) and my wife(Mary) create our son.

If I was God, and my son was murdered on the streets, and I resurrected him from the dead, then I made my human son's spirit omnipresent, then I entered into his omnipresent body to deal with the killer, I would be God THROUGH my son to his killer. The killer of my son would see my son as God. He would realize he is now dealing with God through the resurrected son.

 

[101G]

Also, the only way Jesus is the Father(his God), is by default of the Col 2:9 effect on his body.

They are not the same being, which would cross wire and short circuit scripture to teach.

God did not become himself....

first thanks for the reply, second, my error you're off that list. so you lied.

NOW, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." since you deny John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as the same one person. you calls the bible a lier, and here's why
Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

A. you have two CREATORS if they are separate, and you cannot use Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" and here's why,

B. he was alone and by Himself. do you know what "alone" means? having no one else present. if there is no one else present that means it's no second person or a third person. so you lie again. and cannot use Colossians 1:16 as he went through anyone.

Now you have a bigger problem, for the bible say Jesus is the ONLY ONE who made all things, and he was Alone. meaning he didn't go through anyone else. meaning no one filled him, but he himself, (but you don't know this)....

Now explain how is Jesus ALONE? having someone else who do not exist fill him, your answer please. and please take note of the definition "Alone", or you can quickly Google it.

so your answer please.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

first thanks for the reply, second, my error you're off that list. so you lied.

NOW, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." since you deny John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as the same one person. you calls the bible a lier, and here's why
Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

A. you have two CREATORS if they are separate, and you cannot use Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" and here's why,

B. he was alone and by Himself. do you know what "alone" means? having no one else present. if there is no one else present that means it's no second person or a third person. so you lie again. and cannot use Colossians 1:16 as he went through anyone.

Now you have a bigger problem, for the bible say Jesus is the ONLY ONE who made all things, and he was Alone. meaning he didn't go through anyone else. meaning no one filled him, but he himself, (but you don't know this)....

Now explain how is Jesus ALONE? having someone else who do not exist fill him, your answer please. and please take note of the definition "Alone", or you can quickly Google it.

so your answer please.

PICJAG.

Here is where we get your confession of faith regarding Col 2:9....

Question: Is every bit of what God consists of inside the body of Jesus?

Yes, or no?

This is all I am asking, and it needs no deep detailed explanation(which is a diversion from the question).

 

[ChristisGod]

first thanks for the reply, second, my error you're off that list. so you lied.

NOW, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." since you deny John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as the same one person. you calls the bible a lier, and here's why
Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

A. you have two CREATORS if they are separate, and you cannot use Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" and here's why,

B. he was alone and by Himself. do you know what "alone" means? having no one else present. if there is no one else present that means it's no second person or a third person. so you lie again. and cannot use Colossians 1:16 as he went through anyone.

Now you have a bigger problem, for the bible say Jesus is the ONLY ONE who made all things, and he was Alone. meaning he didn't go through anyone else. meaning no one filled him, but he himself, (but you don't know this)....

Now explain how is Jesus ALONE? having someone else who do not exist fill him, your answer please. and please take note of the definition "Alone", or you can quickly Google it.

so your answer please.

PICJAG.

ANOTHER FAILURE - How many more fallacious arguments will you make ?

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit so God is alone prior to creation.

Christianity is Monotheism, not Tritheism.

One God.

 

[Truther]

ANOTHER FAILURE - How many more fallacious arguments will you make ?

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit so God is alone prior to creation.

Christianity is Monotheism, not Tritheism.

One God.

Are those 3 the exact same Spirit?

Is the Holy Spirit the exact same Spirit as the Father or the Son?

Is there only 1 Holy Spirit, meaning the other 2 are not holy or Spirit's?

 

[101G]

ANOTHER FAILURE - How many more fallacious arguments will you make ?

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit so God is alone prior to creation.

Christianity is Monotheism, not Tritheism.

One God.

you didn't answer the Question is the person at John 1:3 the same one person at Isaiah 44:24. YES or NO? please answer the question.

this will put to rest any Father and Son as separate persons... you answer please. .

PICJAG.

 

[ChristisGod]

you didn't answer the Question is the person at John 1:3 the same one person at Isaiah 44:24. YES or NO? please answer the question.

this will put to rest any Father and Son as separate persons... you answer please. .

PICJAG.

I already debunked your fallacious argument with alone. next.

BTW learn about the Triune God below:

One God, 3 Persons- The Father, Son and Spirit all called God and share all the Divine Attributes as the ONE God who is Tr-Personal, Triune, Trinity.


All called God
The Father- Ps 89:26, 1Cor 8:6, Gal 1:1, Col 1:3
The Son- 1 Tim 1:16-17,Jn 20:28,Titus 2:13, 2 pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20
The Holy Spirit- Acts 5:3-4, 28:25, cf Is 6:8

All Creator
The Father- Is 44:24, 1 Cor 8:6
The Son - Col 1:16; John 1:3
The Holy Spirit- Job 33:4, Ps 104:30, Gen 1:2

All Raised Jesus
The Father- 1 Thess 1:9-10
The Son- John 2:19-21
The Holy Spirit- Rom 8:11

All Eternal
The Father- Ps 93:2
The Son- Jesus Is 9:6
The Holy Spirit- Heb 9:14

All Omniscient
The Father- Ps 147:5
The Son -Jesus John 2:24-25
The Holy Spirit- Is 40:13-14

All Omnipresent
The Father- Jer 23:24
The Son -Jesus Matt 18:20
The Holy Spirit- Ps 139:7-10

All Omnipotent
The Father- Rev 4:8
The Son- Matt 28:18, Rev 5:13
The Holy Spirit- Rom 15:19

 

[101G]

Here is where we get your confession of faith regarding Col 2:9....

Question: Is every bit of what God consists of inside the body of Jesus?

Yes, or no?

This is all I am asking, and it needs no deep detailed explanation(which is a diversion from the question).

Now i will answer you question, YES in the BODY of JESUS, now is Jesus body him, the Spirit... NO, see your ERROR now. see how easy it was for me to answer your questions? now, Jesus body is not HIM, so who was it that filled that BODY? was it Jesus himself or was it another person with Jesus who filled that BODY... now can you please answer my question?

PICJAG.