Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

barney are you a jehovahs witness ?

Where you been? I thought you knew that?

 

[APAK]

I see so you are claiming Jesus was his lord but not his god. That is what Unitarians also claim but cannot support it from the text.

BTW- the AND in bold was for a reason to show its one person not 2 persons being described in the text as all the other scriptures I provided prove.

I'm not a label, although you are correct. The Biblical Unitarians also believe as me in this scripture.
I just read each scripture in CONTEXT always, and first, without quickly running to other scripture pieces as in a puzzle for common support that may be very uncommon. I try not to force seemingly similar scripture together before I analyze and see if there is a clear thread and purpose to tie it together. Forcing scripture together in haste and then forming your beliefs this way is dangerous IMO. I just don't do it if I can help it


We are all learning....
Bless you,

APAK

.

 

[ChristisGod]

Where you been? I thought you knew that?

Now I do :)

who translated the NWT and what were their credentials ?

thanks

 

[APAK]

Where you been? I thought you knew that?

I know I already of course your community of worship...I was making small talk...you are a very capable person in scripture that I see always speaking truth as you know it....where have I been?....caught up with other things for a few months.....chores and other priorities..and got a little annoyed with some one on this forum...nothing to big though...

Glad to hear from you again...APAK

 

[APAK]

@BARNEY BRIGHT I guess your questions were not for me..oops....

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Now I do :)

who translated the NWT and what were their credentials ?

thanks

the NEW WORLD BIBLE TRANSLATION COMMITTEE
As who the specific individuals were, I don't know.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I know I already of course your community of worship...I was making small talk...you are a very capable person in scripture that I see always speaking truth as you know it....where have I been?....caught up with other things for a few months.....chores and other priorities..and got a little annoyed with some one on this forum...nothing to big though...

Glad to hear from you again...APAK

I get annoyed too but I keep witnessing

 

[ChristisGod]

the NEW WORLD BIBLE TRANSLATION COMMITTEE
As who the specific individuals were, I don't know.

So you don't know if any of them on that committee were Linguistic Experts in Hebrew or Greek and if any of them had Seminary Doctorate degrees from a reputable university ?

 

[ChristisGod]

the NEW WORLD BIBLE TRANSLATION COMMITTEE
As who the specific individuals were, I don't know.

Oh boy that translation is the word of man take a look here

The New World Translation

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I must agree since is the obvious meaning but some cannot accept the truth and redefine scriptures to fit their doctrines.

What I see is people focusing only on what Thomas says at John 20:28 and ignoring what God's Holy Spirit inspired John to write down in the rest of that same Chapter.

 

[Enoch111]

What I see is people focusing only on what Thomas says at John 20:28

It is not just what Thomas said. We read of Jesus being addressed by God the Father as "God" in the Psalms (quoted in Hebrews) and we read the writings of the apostles also clearly calling Him "God". If God the Father can call Him "God" how dare any human being refuse to accept that?

BTW, because the Jehovah's Witnesses reject the deity of Christ, they also corrupted the above Scripture (Psalm 45:6; Hebrews 1:8) to prevent their adherents from believing that Jesus is God.

CORRUPTED VERSES IN THE NWT: God is your throne for ever and ever... But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever.
How can God be anyone's throne, since He Himself sits on His throne??? This is both absurd and blasphemous.

CORRECT VERSES IN THE BIBLE: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom isa right sceptre... But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Indeed had Jesus not been BOTH fully God and fully sinless Man, He could not have possibly paid for the sins of the whole world. And Jesus also called Himself "God" when He identified Himself as "I AM".

The Jews of Jesus' day clearly believed that "the Son of God" was also "God", and that is why they took up stones to stone Christ, imagining that He was blaspheming by calling Himself "the Son of God'. But He also called Himself "The Son of Man", and Jewish rabbis interpreted this title as applicable to the divine King/Messiah. Yet they rejected Christ.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

It is not just what Thomas said. We read of Jesus being addressed by God the Father as "God" in the Psalms (quoted in Hebrews) and we read the writings of the apostles also clearly calling Him "God". Indeed had Jesus not been BOTH

Show me the scriptures where God the Father called Jesus God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Barney, God is this....


Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


Not a person, but simply what it is described above.

A personal relationship with God is necessary, but since you believe him to be a nameless entity it's impossible for you to have a personal relationship with God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You are talking about another god,

something not .....

No I'm talking about the God of the Bible. It's not my fault you don't believe God to be a person.

 

[Randy Kluth]

if I may ask, who is this then, Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
now before you answer, we suggest you read the context of the scriptures, a few before this verse, as to who is Speaking. was this the LORD the Father, or was it the Lord, the Son speaking here in Zechariah 12:10. again read the verses before and find out who is speaking. and then tell us who was "pierced" on the cross.
will be looking for your answer.
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The distinctions of the Trinity apply to the one God in different ways before and after the Incarnation. If they are before the Incarnation, Deity is expressed as God yet to become flesh. "And they shall look upon me" reflects the reality as if Christ was looking backwards at a time when he has neither been born nor killed.

So the words are a prophetic projection, certainly not as if Jesus yet existed as a man, but rather, as he existed as the Word of God. God and the Word are not part of the Trinitarian formulation after the Incarnation, and so, Deity can be flexibly applied as Creator, Word, and Spirit. But when Jesus actually became a man, the Trinitarian formula began to be expressed as Father, Son, and Spirit.

So technically, it was neither the Father nor the Son that was speaking, but rather a prophetic projection of God becoming the Son, creating the Trinitarian distinction between Father and Son.

 

[Truther]

It might be easier but by definition it makes God a Person. We cannot reinvent the meaning of words just because it goes against our beliefs.

Jesus said God is a Spirit per John 4:24.

Modernists say God is a person.

I believe Jesus.

 

[Truther]

@Christophany @Truther A scripture passage that has caused much confusion by disregarding especially the context: when, who, and where it was said...and who was in attendance. and who was Jesus and his connection with his Father.

1. I know when these words were penned, commas were not used although when spoken, a pause between 'my Lord' 'and my God' was definitely a real possibility.
2. The other apostles never called Jesus their Lord AND God (Father)...ever
3. The spirit of the Father was indeed resident inside Jesus although Jesus is never the Father. They are separate and yet work as one 'spirit.' Thomas was giving credit and worship to Christ and his Father. Thomas knew both were present, as separate spirits.

So @BARNEY BRIGHT has a point, indeed.

I would not be too quick to dispel what he has said.

Bless you,

APAK

Classic debunking of the Bible.

 

[Truther]

You C'mon, I'm not going to ignore what Jesus himself says about the kind of relationship he has with God. It's a Father and Son relationship. Even after Jesus goes into heaven it's shown to us in scripture that Jesus has a God.

And when it comes to the Apostle John you completely ignore to much of what God inspired him to write down. Like at John 20:17 after Jesus was resurrected a life giving Spirit who is immortal and incorruptible, Jesus Said unto Mary Magdalene, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Here Jesus who after his resurrection is a life giving Spirit who is immortal and incorruptible saying he has a Father and God who is the Apostles Father and God. I'm not going to ignore this.

I believe Jesus is a god. “God” means a strong one. Christ is called “The mighty God” at Isaiah 9:6, “a god” at John 1:1 (NW), and “the only-begotten god” at John 1:18 (NW). Jehovah is not the only god or strong one. The very fact that he is called the Almighty God indicates that there are other gods not so mighty, not almighty like him. So Thomas could call Jesus God, but not THE God, and three verses later Jesus is called “the Son of God,” as we read (NW): “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.” Joh 20:29-31 So there was no objection to John’s reporting that Thomas addressed Jesus as a deity, and certainly John does not say that Thomas’ address to Jesus was to make us believe that Jesus was The God, but says it was to make us believe Jesus was God’s Son. In this same chapter (Joh 20:17, NW) Jesus said: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” He was not ascending to himself.

Let's face it Barney...you doubt Thomas, don't you?

He said Jesus is God and you say he is not.

Don't be a Thomas doubter, Barn.

 

[Truther]

A personal relationship with God is necessary, but since you believe him to be a nameless entity it's impossible for you to have a personal relationship with God.

God's name is Jesus, Barney.

Hebrews 1:4 says Jesus INHERITED his name.

This means he got God's name given to him too....Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

Where at John 14:28 did John under inspiration of Gods Holy Spirit say that the Father was greater as concerning Jesus humanity, not his diety? I believe what God's Holy Spirit inspired men to write down. I don't see what you're saying written down in this scripture anywhere.

it should be clear that scripture interprets scripture; and that John 5:18 interprets John 14:28...we can discern from a comparison of these scriptures that Jesus is equal to the Father in His Deity.

At John 5:18 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit John said that Jesus only said that God was his Father. Under inspiration of the Holy Spirit John said It was the Pharisees that said Jesus was making himself equal to God.

I disagree with you there. The way I read it, it is John's estimation, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that Jesus made Himself equal with God when He claimed that God was His Father.

By the way John under the inspiration of Gods Holy Spirit also said it was the Pharisees that said Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. (Do you believe Jesus was guilty of that because John under the inspiration of Gods Holy Spirit said that the Pharisees said he was guilty of that?)

No; it was not the Pharisees who said it but John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit who estimated that Jesus broke the sabbath. At the very least, Jesus claimed to break the sabbath on that sabbath day (John 5:17). For He said on that very sabbath, My Father worketh hitherto; and I work.

And in Exodus 20:10, it should be clear that the letter of the sabbath law is that you shall not do any work on it.

Did Jesus therefore sin, in that He brake the sabbath?

No; for Jesus came as High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec; He came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life. He was in fact the Lord of the sabbath (Mark 2:28); and as such He was able to reinterpret the sabbath laws according to His own will (see Hebrews 7:12); such as with Mark 2:27 and Matthew 12:12.

Isaac Salkinson and David Ginsburg: “I have been when there had as yet been no Abraham.”

Do you accept this interpretation of Jesus' words? For they are also a testimony to Christ's Deity.

Even after Jesus goes into heaven it's shown to us in scripture that Jesus has a God.

It is clear from holy scripture that God has a God (Hebrews 1:8-9)...and that God has a Father (Revelation 1:6 (kjv)).

Christ is called “The mighty God” at Isaiah 9:6,

Jehovah (the LORD) is called "the Mighty God" in Psalms 50:1 (kjv).

So Thomas could call Jesus God, but not THE God, and three verses later Jesus is called “the Son of God,” as we read (NW): “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.”

That Jesus is the Son of God indicates to me that He is also the everlasting Father according to Isaiah 9:6. In order to deny this truth of holy scripture, you have to change the wording of the passage, not once, but twice.

The Biblical Unitarians

Unitarians are not biblical. If they were, they would heed Jesus' warning in John 8:24 and believe that Jesus is the great I AM.