Martin:
Your reading my mind??? I am also pondering this. This thread was the start of my first -rep because someone's feelings got hurt.
You make a good point about Lot and Noah. I was just reading those. I also was looking at the Tribulation focused on Israel. I don't see the word Church or any of the same language about Christians I see in the other Gospels. I won't deny that it is missing. I hope others look at it also.
Did the Rain start before or after Noah got in the boat. How bout lot. Both escaped, Noah probley got wet. Both saw what was coming.
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
This was written to the Church, Us. I think it is pretty clear that as in Noah's case, it will start to rain. We have wars and rumors of wars. I think we may be getting hung up on the exact official day the Tribulation starts. Could be some smart person in the Government will be able to mark it on the calendar for us. I don't think it's going to be apparent that everyone will know what day it started. Bad and perilous things will be taking place though. We will be here.
(More) Pre Tribulation Proof...... or at least soon after entering into the offical day the tribulation starts.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Here we see the resurrection. Some get hung up on the Word descend from heaven, but to get to the clouds you have to descend from where The Lord sits. Just a play on words. We do see clearly the resurrection though.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Here we see again, the resurrection. Some try to compare trumpets with Rev, which is a good thing, but that is just the assumption that all trumpets in the bible must match.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Ooops......... here we see dead come back also, but at the end. However the dead mentioned by Paul where in Christ. These dead were just brought up, and nothing about a resurrection.
Now when did this event occur? The resurrection that Paul spoke of............. if you keep reading
1 Cor 15, Paul makes a amazing statement.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Well, a Victory is the final of something, and it's through Jesus Christ. (The Church) However that could mean after the Tribulation.
When do we get that Victory?
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
At that time of trouble, the people shall be delivered look at verse two, we also see the resurrection, We also see Michael the archangel, same as we see in
1 th 4:16 Danial is clear when this will take place. At the time when trouble starts.......... We are delivered.
Here we see the Angels put in the sickle to gather the end time harvest. Notice the condition of the Earth.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The sound of the trumpet follows the Coming of the Lord. I think people try to compare trumpets with events in Rev, and it gets messed up, if a trumpet is blown when the angels come with the lord.
Jesus Makes it clear that this event occurs after the Tribulation period................ He describes another event, and tell us this is Before disaster happens.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
This He describes different.......... One after the Tribulation is to gather his elect. The second people are compared to a servant who served him. The Church. He also gave us the description of Noah.
There is a Pre Tribulation or soon after Tribulation starts Rapture or catching away if you like.
Jesus Is Lord.