For those who deny the Most Holy Trinity!

[theefaith]

Doesnt have to be taught by the church, doesn't eveen have to be a graven image. And the church doesnt stop them from breaking one of the 10 commandments so they must condone it. Have you as a Catholic ever bowed to any image/statue?

Exodus 20:
4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

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it must be taught by the church to be catholic doctrine!

Bowing is not worship!
There is no adoration!
No reparation or sacrifice offered!

There is no worship only devotion prayer and veneration! Only God can be worshiped!

now answer my question: what is the difference between images (allowed) and graven images (not allowed)???

 

[theefaith]

Remember what satan said to Jesus,

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

So much blindnes and men love it. All you do is seek to steal men away from Christ, and for every one you do, you will have to answer for, every one.

I don’t d any such thing, only present a biblical understanding
You are talking but not making a point
Also answer a simple question? Did Jesus start a church?

 

[mjrhealth]

I don’t d any such thing, only present a biblical understanding
You are talking but not making a point
Also answer a simple question? Did Jesus start a church?

Yes He is building "HIS" church a spiritual church built upon a solid foundation , revelation, not a carnal churh built upon mens wisdom pride and arrogance. He came to set cause the blind to see, the deaf to hear, the lame to walk, to heal the brokenhearted and to set the captives free, not make prisons for blind foolish men,

The blind following teh blind and will all fall into that ditch.

 

[theefaith]

Yes He is building "HIS" church a spiritual church built upon a solid foundation , revelation, not a carnal churh built upon mens wisdom pride and arrogance. He came to set cause the blind to see, the deaf to hear, the lame to walk, to heal the brokenhearted and to set the captives free, not make prisons for blind foolish men,

The blind following teh blind and will all fall into that ditch.

is it built on the apostles?

 

[mjrhealth]

is it built on the apostles?

Oh so blind, when will you remove your blind fold and open your eyes,

They would rather believe the lie than come into the truth and be saved.

 

[theefaith]

Eph 2:20 is a lie?

you are the one with fundamentalist scales covering your eyes

 

[WaterSong]

only Jesus is the eternal rock and God
But there is the rock on which the church is built and it is Peter matt 16:18-19
Jesus says Peter is this rock and that makes Peter the rock for Christ is truth itself, you can’t give the keys (authority) or the power (binding) to a confession of faith but to a person! Peter and the apostles and their successors eph 2:20

This of course doesn't mean the Roman Catholic church was the church Jesus intended to be established on earth. Nor does it mean Peter is responsible for its invention.
The RCC is everything contrary to what Christ taught. Therefore, it is impossible for the truth of Christ to be the RCC.

 

[theefaith]

This of course doesn't mean the Roman Catholic church was the church Jesus intended to be established on earth. Nor does it mean Peter is responsible for its invention.
The RCC is everything contrary to what Christ taught. Therefore, it is impossible for the truth of Christ to be the RCC.

1st then tell me what is the new covenant church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles?

2nd examples of things contrary to what Christ taught? The teaches “thee faith” eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 matt 28:19

 

[Brakelite]

1st then tell me what is the new covenant church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles?

You want a list?

 

[Enoch111]

Also answer a simple question? Did Jesus start a church?

Of course Jesus started "THE Church", which consists of all the redeemed children of God, both Jews and Gentiles. The church at Jerusalem was the first local church, and others were established in the major cities of the Roman empire. But "THE Church" would be found in all these local churches, and would consist of only those were had been born of the Spirit.

The church of Rome claims to be the church started by Christ and continued through the apostle Peter. But that claim is not borne out by the reality of what the Vatican stands for and what the RCC actually teaches. One simply has to compare the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) with what is actually in the Bible and see that the CCC is a mixture of truth and error. But the clerics of the RCC will never admit this.

 

[theefaith]

You want a list?

there can only be one Jn 10:16

one
Holy
Catholic
And apostolic

 

[Brakelite]

Of course Jesus started "THE Church", which consists of all the redeemed children of God, both Jews and Gentiles. The church at Jerusalem was the first local church, and others were established in the major cities of the Roman empire. But "THE Church" would be found in all these local churches, and would consist of only those were had been born of the Spirit.

The church of Rome claims to be the church started by Christ and continued through the apostle Peter. But that claim is not borne out by the reality of what the Vatican stands for and what the RCC actually teaches. One simply has to compare the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) with what is actually in the Bible and see that the CCC is a mixture of truth and error. But the clerics of the RCC will never admit this.

I struggle to find any truth in the Catechism that isn't tainted to some degree, turning the truth into a lie.

 

[theefaith]

Of course Jesus started "THE Church", which consists of all the redeemed children of God, both Jews and Gentiles. The church at Jerusalem was the first local church, and others were established in the major cities of the Roman empire. But "THE Church" would be found in all these local churches, and would consist of only those were had been born of the Spirit.

The church of Rome claims to be the church started by Christ and continued through the apostle Peter. But that claim is not borne out by the reality of what the Vatican stands for and what the RCC actually teaches. One simply has to compare the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) with what is actually in the Bible and see that the CCC is a mixture of truth and error. But the clerics of the RCC will never admit this.

All the redeemed are not in the new covenant church!

for all men are redeemed!

the Vatican is not the church, only the historic place of peters execution

the ccc has questionable validity

 

[theefaith]

I struggle to find any truth in the Catechism that isn't tainted to some degree, turning the truth into a lie.

there are other valid catechisms

 

[Brakelite]

there can only be one Jn 10:16

one
Holy
Catholic
And apostolic

I could call the fencepost in my back yard one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. But my declaration of such does not make it so. There were Christian churches in existence in Britain (the Celtic Church) for hundreds of years before any representative of Rome entered Britain. There were Christian churches in China which had no contact with Rome for over a 1000 years before they were exterminated. There was a Christian church in India before they were destroyed by the Jesuit inquisition...the first contact they ever had with Rome. There were Christian churches through Asia who never had contact with nor any connection to the Roman pontiff. Same with Africa, south-east Asia, southern Asia, northern Europe. Hundreds of churches, tens of thousands of faithful worshipers of Christ, existing for hundreds of years without Pope, priest, or affiliation of any sort with Rome. Were they not holy? Were they not one in Christ? Were they not a part of the universal (catholic) church? Were they not founded upon the apostles? If not, from whence did they get the gospel?

 

[Enoch111]

I struggle to find any truth in the Catechism that isn't tainted to some degree, turning the truth into a lie.

Well as just one example, you will not be able to find any fault with this statement:

432 The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

There are many other portions of the CCC which faithfully present Bible doctrine. But there are many others which pervert the truth.

 

[Brakelite]

Well as just one example, you will not be able to find any fault with this statement:

432 The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

There are many other portions of the CCC which faithfully present Bible doctrine. But there are many others which pervert the truth.

In the first chapter of Isaiah is revealed a picture of Judah and Jerusalem that portrays a nation utterly wretched, full of putrefying sores and open wounds. Backslidden, apostate, iniquitous. Yet they were still offering rams and goats and having their annual feasts. And God said, "away with your vain oblations and your long prayers. They make me sick". Their religion, although in declaration may have been truth, was turned into a lie because of hypocrisy.
Rome is no different. While one statement in one instance may on the surface appear to be truth, this truth is completely undermined by their practice and traditions and dogmas which place the system as a means of salvation instead of Christ. Even Mary is today extolled as co-redemptrix. That through her one can obtain all the graces necessary for salvation. What is this but Antichrist?
473 ἀντί anti an-tee’ (Christ)

a primary particle; prep; TDNT-1:372,61; {See TDNT 75 }

AV-for 15, because + 3639 4, for … cause 1, therefore + 3639 1, in the room of 1; 22

1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause

 

[Brakelite]

there are other valid catechisms

What is the basis for judging what is valid and what is invalid?

 

[theefaith]

In the first chapter of Isaiah is revealed a picture of Judah and Jerusalem that portrays a nation utterly wretched, full of putrefying sores and open wounds. Backslidden, apostate, iniquitous. Yet they were still offering rams and goats and having their annual feasts. And God said, "away with your vain oblations and your long prayers. They make me sick". Their religion, although in declaration may have been truth, was turned into a lie because of hypocrisy.
Rome is no different. While one statement in one instance may on the surface appear to be truth, this truth is completely undermined by their practice and traditions and dogmas which place the system as a means of salvation instead of Christ. Even Mary is today extolled as co-redemptrix. That through her one can obtain all the graces necessary for salvation. What is this but Antichrist?
473 ἀντί anti an-tee’ (Christ)

a primary particle; prep; TDNT-1:372,61; {See TDNT 75 }

AV-for 15, because + 3639 4, for … cause 1, therefore + 3639 1, in the room of 1; 22

1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause

Christ established the church and the sacraments yo give the life of grace and salvation

Mary is the treasury of divine grace
Lk 1:28 full of grace
She is the queen like Ester who found favor with the king and received half his kingdom and many found favor with God Lk 1:30 and received half of his kingdom
Christ retains the kings of justice and Mary received the kingdom of grace and mercy and consented to our salvation
All graces come thru Mary

 

[theefaith]

Well as just one example, you will not be able to find any fault with this statement:

432 The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

There are many other portions of the CCC which faithfully present Bible doctrine. But there are many others which pervert the truth.

All men are redeemed!