For those who deny the Most Holy Trinity!

[Brakelite]

Christ established the church and the sacraments yo give the life of grace and salvation

Mary is the treasury of divine grace
Lk 1:28 full of grace
She is the queen like Ester who found favor with the king and received half his kingdom and many found favor with God Lk 1:30 and received half of his kingdom
Christ retains the kings of justice and Mary received the kingdom of grace and mercy and consented to our salvation
All graces come thru Mary

Like I said to Enoch. Antichrist. Instead of Christ. IN place of Christ. IN the room of Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

Christ established the church and the sacraments yo give the life of grace and salvation

Mary is the treasury of divine grace
Lk 1:28 full of grace
She is the queen like Ester who found favor with the king and received half his kingdom and many found favor with God Lk 1:30 and received half of his kingdom
Christ retains the kings of justice and Mary received the kingdom of grace and mercy and consented to our salvation
All graces come thru Mary

I know and understand that this is what you believe. It is pure Catholicism. You are a very good Catholic. You are a faithful follower of your Magisterium, tradition, and some of the church fathers. Sadly, you are not a follower of any of the apostles, nor do you keep any of the doctrines that they taught. While you are a very good Catholic, (as I once was), it does not necessarily mean you are a Christian. But I leave such judgements up to the one who reads hearts, and such a task is way above my pay grade.

 

[theefaith]

Like I said to Enoch. Antichrist. Instead of Christ. IN place of Christ. IN the room of Christ.

don’t all grace come from Christ are they not from his merits and sacrifice of the cross

well he cane thru her

 

[theefaith]

I know and understand that this is what you believe. It is pure Catholicism. You are a very good Catholic. You are a faithful follower of your Magisterium, tradition, and some of the church fathers. Sadly, you are not a follower of any of the apostles, nor do you keep any of the doctrines that they taught. While you are a very good Catholic, (as I once was), it does not necessarily mean you are a Christian. But I leave such judgements up to the one who reads hearts, and such a task is way above my pay grade.

only baptized Catholics are Christians

 

[Enoch111]

All men are redeemed!

Do you even know and understand the Gospel? If all men are redeemed there would be NO NEED FOR THE GOSPEL. So what kind of foolish talk is this?

 

[DNB]

Here's another quote from the wise lady I quoted earlier....
"There are some things upon which we must reason, and there are other things that we must not discuss. In regard to God -- what He is and where He is -- silence is eloquence. When you are tempted to speak of what God is, keep silence, because as surely as you begin to speak of this, you will disparage Him."
The trinity formula is not, nor can any man make it so, an accurate depiction of Who God is. God, in His natural element...what He is...has not been revealed therefore all we imagine Him to be will always fall short of reality. And to coerce others to accept our speculations is an insult to God and man.

That is not entirely true. Christians with understanding, must affirm attributes of God that are contrary to other Religion's beliefs, or are heretical within Biblical truth. Thus, we can assert certain aspects of God's ontology with certitude and conviction. God is neither divisible, quantifiable, confused or non-sensible, nor is there any redundancy within His essence. Therefore, God is neither triune, three-in-one, comprised of multiple persons or natures, or can be killed, or did He devise an atonement where He deemed it sound and just to propitiate Himself.
These are axiomatic precepts, and maxims that no God-fearing devotee can or should deny.
If Christians are to be wise as serpents and the salt-of-the-earth, we must not tolerate blasphemous depictions of God. This is an attainable perception, and therefore a duty.

 

[DNB]

This of course doesn't mean the Roman Catholic church was the church Jesus intended to be established on earth. Nor does it mean Peter is responsible for its invention.
The RCC is everything contrary to what Christ taught. Therefore, it is impossible for the truth of Christ to be the RCC.

Hi WaterSong, I'm just curious. If I read you posts correctly, you seemed to denounce the trinity, and yet, several times you said that 'Jesus was God'? My first assumption is that that would make you modalist?
Again, nothing more than curious, as I find it pleasing to hear Christians disparage the doctrine of the trinity.
I am neither trinitarian nor modalist, I only accept the Father as divine, and no other being in the entire universe, but Him, is God.

 

[Brakelite]

don’t all grace come from Christ are they not from his merits and sacrifice of the cross

well he cane thru her

No. The grace and mercy came from the Father through the Son. Mary was just a human mother who was honored with the responsibility to raise a child to honor His Father. She did a great job... But anything beyond that is imagination.

 

[TheslightestID]

Bowing is not worship!

You didn't read the scripture carefully, it states we should not worship, or bow down, as in either/or but Catholics do bow down. See the following scripture and know it has covered every argument you have presented. IOW, the scripture left you no way to make bowing down to anything ok to do.

now answer my question: what is the difference between images (allowed) and graven images (not allowed)???

Now? What do you mean? You never answered mine, have you or have you not ever bowed down to an image? Now for your question:

Images are not allowed. Read the scripture again where it states no "likeness" of "anything". IOW, we are to bow to nothing. An image is a likeness and no likeness is allowed. Again, the bible has that covered, and was very careful to refute what you say you are allowed to do because Gods word expected this argument.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[Brakelite]

You didn't read the scripture carefully, it states we should not worship, or bow down, as in either/or but Catholics do bow down. See the following scripture and know it has covered every argument you have presented. IOW, the scripture left you no way to make bowing down to anything ok to do.



Images are not allowed. Read the scripture again where it states no "likeness" of "anything". IOW, we are to bow to nothing. An image is a likeness and no likeness is allowed. Again, the bible has that covered, and was very careful to refute what you say you are allowed to do because Gods word expected this argument.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Which is why the Catholic Church had to remove that from scripture.

 

[Brakelite]

God is neither divisible,

Yet He had a Son.

 

[TheslightestID]

Which is why the Catholic Church had to remove that from scripture.

Ah, I did not know that, but not suprised since as understand it, the Catholics have the right to rewrite the bible. And living, breathing, thinking Catholics don't even question that?

 

[theefaith]

Do you even know and understand the Gospel? If all men are redeemed there would be NO NEED FOR THE GOSPEL. So what kind of foolish talk is this?

1st you are assuming that Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation are the same things, they are not!

the Bible says Christ the savior of the world and all people!

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Savior and redeemer of all men!

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Sanctification: the life of grace, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[theefaith]

No. The grace and mercy came from the Father through the Son. Mary was just a human mother who was honored with the responsibility to raise a child to honor His Father. She did a great job... But anything beyond that is imagination.

was she not the divine treasury? In her we’re all graces? Lk 1:28
Mother of our salvation? Lk 2:30

 

[theefaith]

And the immaculate conception of Mary in her mother’s womb then the miraculous conception of Jesus by the Hs?
The mother of God?
The perpetual virginity of Mary?

 

[Brakelite]

Ah, I did not know that, but not suprised since as understand it, the Catholics have the right to rewrite the bible. And living, breathing, thinking Catholics don't even question that?

Good question. Some do, but the answers they get is, dont question Divine authority. Magisterium, I mean Mother knows best.

 

[DNB]

Yet He had a Son.

Not in the sense that you're speaking. He had children too, the Israelites, and He is the Father of us all.
God did not impregnate Mary with His own sperm, obviously.
Not sure what your point is?

 

[Brakelite]

was she not the divine treasury? In her we’re all graces? Lk 1:28
Mother of our salvation? Lk 2:30

No.
No.
No.

 

[Brakelite]

Not in the sense that you're speaking. He had children too, the Israelites, and He is the Father of us all.
God did not impregnate Mary with His own sperm, obviously.
Not sure what your point is?

My point is this. God gave His only begotten Son. From the language and the context of scripture I believe the Father had a Son to give. And that Son agreed to the deal before the foundations of the earth were laid.
KJV 1 John 1:1-3
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

 

[theefaith]

You didn't read the scripture carefully, it states we should not worship, or bow down, as in either/or but Catholics do bow down. See the following scripture and know it has covered every argument you have presented. IOW, the scripture left you no way to make bowing down to anything ok to do.



Now? What do you mean? You never answered mine, have you or have you not ever bowed down to an image? Now for your question:

Images are not allowed. Read the scripture again where it states no "likeness" of "anything". IOW, we are to bow to nothing. An image is a likeness and no likeness is allowed. Again, the bible has that covered, and was very careful to refute what you say you are allowed to do because Gods word expected this argument.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Worship / graven images

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant , and the bronze serpent, are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped images are forbidden such as the golden calf!

Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!

Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!

Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Bowing or posture does not equal worship!

Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Bowing a sign of obedience!

Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.

1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her


If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!

I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!

Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!

Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!