Discerning : The Water Cults

[mailmandan]

Those that don't believe, and are obviously not willing to be baptized, will obviously be damned.

Jesus was spot on.

Atheists who don't believe in the existence of Jesus would obviously not be willing to be baptized, yet there are many people in various false religions and cults who have been water baptized that do not believe in Jesus "unto salvation." (Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6 etc..) Now such people may believe in the existence of Jesus and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" yet they do not trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Instead, such people trust in "water and works" for salvation. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

 

[mailmandan]

Look carefully at the verse.

He that BELIEVES NOT.......= Shall be damned.

Notice that it does not include the water baptism........
Why is that?
Because Salvation is God using the BLOOD of Jesus, to save you, when you BELIEVE.

So, if you dont BELIEVE, you are a CHRIST REJECTOR, which is the UN-BELIEVING that DAMNS You.

Water has nothing to do with this..

Amen! Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism, so salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then Jesus would not have failed to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Now what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Behold]

This is what baptism is, a symbol of one’s rebirth. .

That is exactly correct.

When we are water baptized, AFTER WE ARE BORN AGAIN, we do this in PUBLIC.
So, in this case, its a public confession that we are risen SYMBOLICALLY as a new creation in Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm talking to some mormons right now who are water cultists. They also believe that the only way to recieve the Holy Spirit is for a mormon to lay hands on a person. It's pretty silly.

My wife grew up in the RLDS church (similar to LDS) and I remember witnessing people after receiving water baptism in that church, the elders would afterwards lay hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit. They basically believed, no laying on of hands, no receiving the Holy Spirit. They seem to have misunderstood why there was a delay for certain groups of people in the book of Acts in receiving the Holy Spirit until after the disciples laid hands on them. Mormons turned the exception into the rule.

 

[Behold]

I suppose that if I retreated to start another thread every time that I was defeated logically, I still would not be starting a bunch of threads (because I am not defeated logically very often...hardly ever, in fact)..

As i told you 8 months ago, and said to you yesterday, again.
You dont Thread.
Yet, you have announced to us here that you are a """ Teacher, and THE Pastor of this Forum.""""
I say you are neither.
See, a teacher, does what i do....they TEACH, they THREAD, they SHOW THE FRUIT.

What is your fruit, justbyfaith?
You talk about being a teacher. You talk about being a "forum pastor", and YET you do not THREAD.

What you do, is chase me around so that you can be noticed.
That's your daily Fruit... Just like today and just like tomorrow.
You sit there and wait for me to Post another Thread, as ive now posted about 200, and you are usually the 1st one to show up, and rant your nonsense.
That's your """fruit."""
You use my Threads, because you have nothing else to offer, except to chase me around and pollute my Threads.
Thats what you do, for the last 8 months, Mr Junior Catholic in Training as you have defined yourself in the last 3 days.

 

[Behold]

I am not on your threads to learn from you but to combat the false doctrines that are taught by you.And that is not going to change.

As i told you 8 months ago, and said to you yesterday, again.
You dont Thread.
Yet, you have announced to us here that you are a """ Teacher, and THE Pastor of this Forum.""""
I say you are neither.
See, a teacher, does what i do....they TEACH, they THREAD, they SHOW THE FRUIT.

What is your fruit, justbyfaith?
You talk about being a teacher. You talk about being THE "forum pastor", here, and YET you do not THREAD.

What you do, is chase me around so that you can be noticed.
That's your daily Fruit... Just like today and just like tomorrow.
You sit there and wait for me to Post another Thread, as ive now posted about 200, and you are usually the 1st one to show up, and rant your nonsense.
That's your """fruit."""
You use my Threads, because you have nothing else to offer, except to chase me around and pollute my Threads.
Thats what you do, for the last 8 months, Mr Junior Catholic in Training as you have defined yourself in the last 3 days.

 

[Behold]

I am not on your threads
And that is not going to change.

Of course you live on my Threads, daily.
You have nothing else.

 

[Behold]

Amen! Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism, so salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then Jesus would not have failed to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Now what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Exactly.

"without the shedding of BLOOD, there is no remission, there is no pardon there is no forgiveness, of sin"

"Jesus, having PURGED OUR SIN, with His own BLOOD, sat down".

Why did He sit down?
Because "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross", was completed.

And what is that "work"?

its not water baptism, Readers.

Its the BLOOD ATONEMENT.= ONLY.

 

[mailmandan]

I notice you didn't highlight Repent which is a key word.

Amen! Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life."

Repent "change of mind" - new direction of this change of mind - "believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin which shows that whenever repentance unto salvation is mentioned in scripture without mentioning belief/faith, belief/faith is implied or assumed and whenever belief/faith is mentioned in scripture without mentioning repentance, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one, you must have the other. *Two sides to the same coin.*

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Pearl]

Repent. Turn away from your old ways and be reconciled to God.

 

[mailmandan]

Repent. Turn away from your old ways and be reconciled to God.

Repentance results in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "..I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance. (Matthew 3:8)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life."

Repent "change of mind" - new direction of this change of mind - "believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin which shows that whenever repentance unto salvation is mentioned in scripture without mentioning belief/faith, belief/faith is implied or assumed and whenever belief/faith is mentioned in scripture without mentioning repentance, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one, you must have the other. *Two sides to the same coin.*

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen

people even misunderstand this, the fact is, if we do not repent, we will never come to faith

if we do not come to faith, we will not be saved

partial repentance is not enough.

we can’t give God a full glass of water with even a drop of contaminant i. That water, he will not accept that, yet sadly, workers think this is what we must do to keep salvation

 

[Truther]

I agree that the remission of sins was accomplished when Cornelius and friends were baptized.

Amen.

 

[Truther]

I notice you didn't highlight Repent which is a key word.

Repent kills.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus buries/remits.

 

[Truther]

Peter and the 120 were not water baptized, and they still "spoke with tongues " and were born again, = Acts chapter 2.

So, the water cult doctrine of devils, that says that WATER Baptism causes "the infilling of the spirit" and that we are "born again by water", didnt happen to Peter or the 120.

I see, so the 120 and Peter were not added to the church as per this?....


41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[Truther]

Look carefully at the verse.

He that BELIEVES NOT.......= Shall be damned.

Notice that it does not include the water baptism........
Why is that?
Because Salvation is God using the BLOOD of Jesus, to save you, when you BELIEVE.

So, if you dont BELIEVE, you are a CHRIST REJECTOR, which is the UN-BELIEVING that DAMNS You.

Water has nothing to do with this..

You think that unbelievers would be baptized?

Jesus didn't.

You need to get in sync with Him.

 

[Truther]

Atheists who don't believe in the existence of Jesus would obviously not be willing to be baptized, yet there are many people in various false religions and cults who have been water baptized that do not believe in Jesus "unto salvation." (Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6 etc..) Now such people may believe in the existence of Jesus and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" yet they do not trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Instead, such people trust in "water and works" for salvation. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

So, only perfect truth is the qualifier to be baptized or simple faith in Jesus?

 

[Pearl]

Repent kills.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus buries/remits.

@Truther I don't understand what you are saying.
Do you mean that to repent is to die to self?
And what does your second sentence mean?

 

[charity]

@Behold
@justbyfaith
@Truther
@Pearl

Hello there,

Please don't take this personally, for it is not intended so.

I hear people talking about Baptism, and it's purpose, with little recourse to what the Scriptures actually have to say about it. Also no one ever seems to take into consideration what is said in Ephesians 4, in the sevenfold unity of the Spirit, that we are called upon to 'keep', in which there is only ONE baptism.

The Baptism of John, was the baptism of repentance, and the medium used was water, this he preached to the People of Israel. John himself tells us why he came baptising with water in John 1:31,

'And I knew Him (the Christ) not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.'​

* He also told of another form of baptism which was to come in Matthew 3:11:-

'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that cometh after me is mightier than I,
Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,
and with fire: ... ' ​

* During the Acts period there were two baptisms running together, baptism with water and baptism with the Holy Spirit. See Acts 19:5.

* Which of the two baptisms (or is it three?) of Matthew 3:11 (quoted above) is the 'ONE baptism' of Ephesians 4, - [ written at the end of the Acts period following the departure of Israel into unbelief] - that we are to 'keep' as part of the sevenfold unity of the Spirit recorded there? Or is it another altogether, one which the flesh has no part in? In which it cannot boast.

* I believe the answer to this question is vital for a true understanding of what is God's will for the Church at this present time in relation to this subject, and one which we neglect to our own detriment.

* I do hope you will address this.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mailmandan]

So, only perfect truth is the qualifier to be baptized or simple faith in Jesus?

Did you not understand what I explained to you in post number 81?