Discerning : The Water Cults

[Renniks]

All three baptisms are the one baptism...it is a three-in-one propagation, much like the Trinity.



That depends on whether they are confessing Christ before men in their baptism or not.

If they are, then it definitely saves them (Christ will confess them before the Father and the angels as the result, Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

In cases where it is not the decision of the person to be baptized (such as with infant baptisms), it is less of a confession and more of wishful thinking on the part of the parents.

You can confess Christ without truly believing.

 

[Renniks]

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

This is the water of the river of life, obviously symbolic of eternal life, not baptism. Just as baptism is a symbol of receiving the gift of new life.

 

[justbyfaith]

You didn’t understand what I explained and you also continue to trust in “water and works” for salvation instead of Jesus Christ alone. Also go back and read post #82.

1) Baptism is not a work

2) It is a confession of Jesus before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8) and therefore can be salvational.

3) The water only serves to accurately represent the fact that the person has been buried and raised from death as an identification with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection.

Pretty sure 2 and 3 are the same.

1, 2, and 3 are the same.

If we have the Holy Spirit, what need have we to be dunked in water?

For the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

You can confess Christ without truly believing.

How so? out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks (Luke 6:45).

Your point only serves to substantiate my point...because actually being dunked in water is more of a commitment than just confessing Christ with your mouth...you may even be able to fake it in the latter...however, in the former it is far less likely that a person is faking it when they do the whole thing that it entails.

Also, will Christ confess you before His Father and the angels if you don't believe?

But He will do that for all those who confess Him before men.

So, if the answer is, that He will not confess you if you don't believe; then I conclude that those who confess Him must be believers by definition.

Because if He confesses you for that you confessed Him, you must believe; otherwise Christ will confess before His Father those who don't believe.

This is the water of the river of life, obviously symbolic of eternal life, not baptism. Just as baptism is a symbol of receiving the gift of new life.

His point was that people would walk around mountains of grace to find water. My point is that water brings life (and grace); so it may be expedient to walk around mountains to find water.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They are not unbelievers, but UNREPENTED. Think about it. Nobody but the RCC is forcing folks to be baptized(babies).

An unrepentant person is lost and is a non believer by defenition, because they have no faith

 

[justbyfaith]

An unrepentant person is lost and is a non believer by defenition, because they have no faith

However, there are those who people define today as "believers" who have never repented and who will contend for the idea that repentance is unnecessary.

 

[Behold]

I see, so the 120 and Peter were not added to the church as per this?....

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

No you don't "see".
And thats the issue.
Here is what you see........>"if i get wet, and i did, im saved".
But thats not true.

And here is the other part you are not "seeing"...........

1.) Abraham, was not water baptized
2.) The dying Thief on the Cross, was not water baptized
3.) PETER, = BEFORE he told the 3000 to get in the water, was not himself water baptized FIRST, = YET< he spoke in tongues.
4.) The 120 who were in the "upper room" ... ( and i have been in the upper room)......did not get water baptized and they all spoke in tongues, which means they were filled with the SPIRIT, without any WATER BAPTISM.

So, what you are not seeing, is that 122 are not water baptized, "to receive the gift", or to "receive the Holy Spirit", as ALL the water cults FALSLY teach you MUST DO to : = to be saved, be born again, be added to the church, and receive the Holy Spirit.

Do you see it now?
All that is not TRUE.

See it?

 

[mailmandan]

How can you separate Christ from our water baptism?

The O.T. priest washed at the brazen laver.

To fulfill this artifact, Jesus was baptized.

Likewise, we must be baptized, to be buried with Him.

God told the priest, "wash at the laver that ye die not". It could not be skipped.

Anti baptimalist's would make lousy O.T. priests as they would skip this process and get burnt up by God at the Ark.

So, to recap....

Priest kills the sacrifice...Jesus dies...we die(repentance).

Priest washes at the laver...Jesus baptized...we are baptized.

Priest enters the Holy of Holies...Jesus rent the vail....we enter the Holy of Holies via the Holy Ghost baptism.

Now you know what it means to follow Jesus!

You follow Campbellism. Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death; but Christ’s death would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the shadow. Without the substance there would be no shadow. The death, burial and resurrection of Christ is figured or cast [as a shadow] in the ordinance of water baptism. Baptism is the token or emblem of our literal redemption by Jesus Christ.

IS SALVATION BY CHRIST or By Baptism? / Bob L. Ross |

 

[mailmandan]

No, they received the Holy Ghost to lead them to baptismal salvation per Acts 2:38.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Behold]

--------

 

[Behold]

The 120 were in fact baptized at the juncture of John 4:1-2.

That verse is talking about the disciples baptizing.
So, you twisted it into water cult theology.
Nothing new for you.

That verse is written before the Blood of Jesus was shed on the Cross.

So, that verse is still Old Testament Law, dealing with Jews, that you are trying to teach, against the CROSS = as your water cult theology regarding the born again.

Listen carefully .

You are teaching Jehovah's Witness doctrine, perfectly.
Are you a blend now of Catholic and JW?

Here is the JW water cult Doctrine...
""Baptism in water has several purposes. It is for the remission of sins, for membership in the Church, and for entrance into the celestial kingdom;""""

Do you see yourself?
We do.


So, do you see how far you are into total heresy?
Total.
You were not this far into the dark 8 months ago.
Look at yourself now.
You are teaching perfect JW theology.


Now listen...
.. Jesus had not died yet, in your verse., so that is why Jewish apostles were using John the Baptists "Repent and be dunked" regarding other JEWS.
See, in your verse, JESUS is only dealing with the "house of Israel", = water baptsim, = John the Baptist, = OLD TESTAMENT.
But after Jesus DIED, = the New Testament was born, and the "time of the Gentiles" began, and Paul the "gentile apostle" was sent by JESUS to teach the "Gospel of the Grace of God" to the BODY of CHRIST who were not yet started in your verse that is only talking to JEWS before the NEW COVENANT was begun.

 

[Pearl]

The second part(water baptism) is our burial with Christ.

We cannot be in Christ unless we are buried with Christ.

Also, we cannot be baptized(buried) legally before God unless we are dead(repented).

Folks that get baptized and walk away from God the next day were never dead. They were buried alive(per unrepentance).

Water baptism is a only a Symbol of that burial. It is ideal if it can take place immediately or soon after re-birth but that isn't always possible - it wasn't for me. I had been born again for about seven years before I was able to be baptised.

And I agree that not everybody that goes through baptism is born again. The do it for their own reasons or because their churches put pressure on them. And without the re-birth the baptism is all but meaningless.

 

[Behold]

Life-giving water...

.

You just again denied Jesus as THE LIFE,.... John 14:6..... on a public "Christian" forum.
Your theology rejects the Cross of Christ, again.
You just replaced it with water, again.
And now you'll come and deny you did this.....again.

So, come now again, and tell us more about that life giving city water supply, just as the JW's teach it..........like this...

""""Baptism in water has several purposes. It is for the remission of sins, for membership in the Church, and for entrance into the Kingdom of God"....

 

[mailmandan]

Water baptism is a only a Symbol of that burial.

Amen! I like how Greek scholar AT Robertson explains it - "a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."

Romans 6:4 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

And I agree that not everybody that goes through baptism is born again. The do it for their own reasons or because their churches put pressure on them. And without the re-birth the baptism is all but meaningless.

Amen! If one receives water baptism without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

 

[charity]

All three are identified as baptism...but there is only one baptism.

Hello @justbyfaith,

With respect, that really will not do. Surely it is a form of self-deception to make ONE be TWO? During the Acts of the Apostles, there were two baptisms, ie., water and Spirit, the type and the reality. The reality has always been the baptism of the Spirit, and when the type has no further application, as now, the reality still remains untouched and unchanged.

True baptism united the believer with his Lord in His death and resurrection - a unity typically set forth in the ceremony of water baptism. The removal of the type does not remove the reality, for that remains. The ONE BAPTISM of the ONE SPIRIT is the only baptism that figures in The Unity of The Spirit (Ephesians 4:3-6). Every member of the ONE BODY is a 'baptized believer', and no amount of emphasis on the type can lift it into the place of the reality.

'The things which are seen are temporal,
but the things that are not seen are age-abiding'
(2 Corinthians 4:18)

The member of the One Body, observes neither days, fasts, feasts, nor ordinances. These are shadows, the body is of Christ (Colossians 2). The One Baptism unites us to the risen Christ, and we have no command to set forth this union in symbol or type; neither have we any warrant to look for 'signs' in connexion with our baptism by the Spirit.

* Was the baptism of Matthew 20:21,22 in water? Was the baptism of 1 Corinthians 10:2 in water? (see Exodus 14:22 'upon dry ground', also 25:19, Psalm 66:6 and Hebrews 11:29).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[07-07-07]

I believe in water baptism because it fulfills all righteousness as taught by Jesus, but water can't wash away sin; only the blood of Jesus can do that. Jesus fulfilled Leviticus 17:11, as noted in my signature, on the altar of God (the Cross).

 

[Truther]

If we have the Holy Spirit, what need have we to be dunked in water?

For the remission of our sins via the spoken name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

An unrepentant person is lost and is a non believer by defenition, because they have no faith

But, they are in disguise as believers.

 

[Truther]

No you don't "see".
And thats the issue.
Here is what you see........>"if i get wet, and i did, im saved".
But thats not true.

And here is the other part you are not "seeing"...........

1.) Abraham, was not water baptized
2.) The dying Thief on the Cross, was not water baptized
3.) PETER, = BEFORE he told the 3000 to get in the water, was not himself water baptized FIRST, = YET< he spoke in tongues.
4.) The 120 who were in the "upper room" ... ( and i have been in the upper room)......did not get water baptized and they all spoke in tongues, which means they were filled with the SPIRIT, without any WATER BAPTISM.

So, what you are not seeing, is that 122 are not water baptized, "to receive the gift", or to "receive the Holy Spirit", as ALL the water cults FALSLY teach you MUST DO to : = to be saved, be born again, be added to the church, and receive the Holy Spirit.

Do you see it now?
All that is not TRUE.

See it?

You think folks are saved by water alone...that's your problem.

No, but the name of Jesus Christ spoken over someone while in the water remits the sins.

This is why just getting the Holy Ghost is in addition to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Also, why folks were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in Samaria without the Holy Ghost per Acts 8.

If it was not essential, it would not have been done.

The problem with modern anti-baptismalists are simple. They fear water in the name of Jesus Christ.(Just what the enemy wants them to do).

 

[Truther]

You follow Campbellism. Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death; but Christ’s death would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the shadow. Without the substance there would be no shadow. The death, burial and resurrection of Christ is figured or cast [as a shadow] in the ordinance of water baptism. Baptism is the token or emblem of our literal redemption by Jesus Christ.

IS SALVATION BY CHRIST or By Baptism? / Bob L. Ross |

I like Campbells soup.

Anyway, I follow Acts 2:38.

The name of Jesus Christ during water baptism was Peter's solution to remit sins.

The same was Paul's solution to be baptized INTO Christ.

If you don't get INTO Christ via baptism, you are not in Christ.

You have not died with Christ, are not buried with Christ and are not going to be resurrected by Christ.

 

[Truther]

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Busted!!!

You omitted/deleted this from the verse...."and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins".

Cool, are you David Blain, making it disappear before our eyes?