Once Saved Always Saved

Corlove13 · May 11, 2021

Corlove13 said:
Yes I believe we are saved by grace through faith.
But I also believe the faith that saves is a faith that works.
For Jesus obeyed the father unto death...
If He did not take action...to die so that we could live by His resurrected Spirit then
We would be dead in our sins. HE IS THE MODEL FOR US.....we are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice. You do not believe that takes work?

mailmandan said:
Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice does take work, but our best efforts to do so is not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.

No one ever said it is by our effort alone....
John 15:5
As my post emphasized

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Galatians 2:20, ESV: "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

Wrangler · May 11, 2021

Corlove13 said:
No one ever said it is by our effort alone....
John 15:5

This point has been made to OSAS dozens of times.

MatthewG · May 11, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<Can people who follow God have ups and downs through it's life? >>>

Yes.

<<<Even to the point of letting go of God and Jesus Christ Completely?>>>

No for the true Christian.

<<<Are they able to come back to God?>>>

This question would not really apply to those who were not true followers of Jesus. Should they later come to truly believe, they really have not come back, but are then at that point truly converted.

As for the true followers of Jesus, this is what scriptures says:

Heb.6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Tong
R3220

Hello Tong,

This scripture here is in Hebrew 6:4 Tong2020;

Is explaining about those who already know the truth of the Gospel of Christ but instead of accepting and believing they openly reject or have anything to do with the Son of God. There are many people in this world that seem to Jesus Christ as not needed, he was not useful, do not understand that cross and believe they do not need Jesus Christ, or God.

*The same thing is being said about these Jewish people who been given the truth yet reject it willfully. The truth of the Gospel because they have yet to understand clearly.

The only way to become spiritually reborn is to let the Lord Jesus Christ in ~.

I like how you use the term true Christian - maybe you are a true Christian and you are rest assured in your faith ~

Does that mean that other people who are believers in Christ Jesus yet are weak in their faith are important enough to be reminded of the truth and the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ to increase their faith and trust in God?

Is that a good thing to do? Remind people of the truth of the Gospel of Christ? Speaking about Jesus Christ for the most part leads people to either looking at you and see you as something as death or something that is of a pleasant smell like a flower. (2 Corinthians 2:16) ~ Suffering for the sake of Christ Jesus.

Osiris · May 11, 2021

GracePeace said:
LOL Paul literally spoke Greek, and wrote His Name out in Greek (eg, Iesous), and told people to call on the Hellenized form you absolute joke. LOL
Why are you so obsessed with "respect"?

Im a joke? You saying Paul spoke Greek means nothing since he was a Hebrew of Hebrews of the seed of jacob(Israel) from the tribe of Benjamin. He was also a Roman citizen. Do you know the lingua franca around Paul’s time would koine Greek? If you understand that you would understand why the letter to the churches would be in Greek. Jesus is a transliteration and romanized word. But if I be a fool let me be a for in hamashyach.
Ps: Obsession would mean that I harbor feeling or yearn for “respect” yet I don’t need yours
But God respects the seed of Israel

Corlove13 · May 11, 2021

Corlove13 said:
Yes I believe we are saved by grace through faith.
But I also believe the faith that saves is a faith that works.
For Jesus obeyed the father unto death...
If He did not take action...to die so that we could live by His resurrected Spirit then
We would be dead in our sins. HE IS THE MODEL FOR US.....we are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice. You do not believe that takes work?

Hi, my take on it is....they did not have a relationship. Recall the def of the Bible of eternal life

Look at the text and let me know what you think....I will look the word "knew" up but it is said that ..."know" is like Adam knew Eve...intimate relationship ....yes the same form of the word knew is know....ginosko [1097]

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
Matthew 7:21-23

Recall the will of the father is that everyone that looks to the Son and believes will have life and be raised on the last Day.

Osiris · May 11, 2021

GracePeace said:
LOL Paul literally spoke Greek, and wrote His Name out in Greek (eg, Iesous), and told people to call on the Hellenized form you absolute joke. LOL
Why are you so obsessed with "respect"?

I like how you ignore there being no J’s in Hebrew and Greek. Meaning this spelling and pronunciation is wrong. Do you know what the holy tongue is ? Did you know Ecclesiasticus 1:1 even states the same things uttered in Hebrew and translated into another tongue have not the same force in them.
Don’t be simply, don’t be a Devil

Corlove13 · May 11, 2021

Wrangler said:
This point has been made to OSAS dozens of times.

Because they do not see sanctification as part of Salvation...

Taken · May 11, 2021

kcnalp said:
YOU don't even understand OSAS! God said so!

Still deflecting. Yawn.

Corlove13 · May 11, 2021

Corlove13 said:
No one ever said it is by our effort alone....
John 15:5
As my post emphasized

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Galatians 2:20, ESV: "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

Noting that Gal 2:20.....where it says "faith in the son of God" some interpretations may have the faithfulness of the son of God...

MatthewG · May 11, 2021

Corlove13 said:
Hi, my take on it is....they did not have a relationship. Recall the def of the Bible of eternal life

Look at the text and let me know what you think....I will look the word "knew" up but it is said that ..."know" is like Adam knew Eve...intimate relationship ....yes the same form of the word knew is know....ginosko [1097]

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
Matthew 7:21-23

Recall the will of the father is that everyone that looks to the Son and believes will have life and be raised on the last Day.

Hello Corlove13: Would like to add something to your red words:

To me this is what God's will is for us as believers in Christ Jesus and it can be found here: In verse 18.

1 Thessalonians 5:

12But we ask you (Paul) (1 Thess. 1:1), brothers (Those who are at Thessalonia (1 Thess 1:1-10), to acknowledge those who work diligently among you, who preside over you in the Lord and give you instruction (Speaking about those who elders in the church, in that time period: Paul is encouraging to listen to those who are working among you to help you in your faith, and trust in God, and finding the truth in the Gospel of Christ).

13In love (In love - Strong's Greek: 26. ἀγάπη (agapé) -- love, goodwill love), hold them in highest regard because of their work. (hold them in respect ~ as they are helping you in your faith ~ Also ~ If possible) Live in peace with one another. (By the spirit and with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

14And we urge you, brothers, to admonish (gently warn by the spirit) the unruly, encourage the fainthearted (encourage those weak in faith), help the weak (help the weak in strength), and be patient with everyone (be patient with everyone).

15Make sure that no one repays evil for evil (If someone commits and malicious action against you, trying to slander you, (if in real danger call police get help!), trying to say you did something when you did not do whatever it was a person is saying) ~ Pray for them, do not repay them back. Always pursue what is good for one another and for all people. (Always pursue what is good for one another and for all people).

16Rejoice at all times. (Lean on the Lord always) Strong's Greek: 5463. χαίρω (chairó) -- to rejoice, be glad

17Pray without ceasing. (Pray without ceasing) Strong's Greek: 89. ἀδιαλείπτως (adialeiptós) -- incessantly

18Give thanks in every circumstance, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. (Give thanks in every circumstance) Strong's Greek: 3956. πᾶς (pas) -- all, every: (For this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus) Strong's Greek: 2307. θέλημα (theléma) -- will

19Do not extinguish the Spirit. (Continue in faith; growing in knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and walking by the spirit)

20Do not treat prophecies with contempt, (encouragement to the Thessalonians : to not give up on the promises of God that were coming, including the return of the Lord Jesus Christ ~ the promises of Eternal Life ~ Holy spirit ~ communication with God through prayer)~ Resurrection from the dead Strong's Greek: 4394. προφητεία (prophéteia) -- prophecy Strong's Greek: 1848. ἐξουθενέω (exoutheneó) -- to despise, treat with contempt

21but test all things. Hold fast to what is good. Test all things ~ by the spirit/ by and with the word of God ~ Hold fast to what is good.

22Abstain from every form of evil.

Abstain from every form of maliciousness ~ bad evil. Strong's Greek: 4190. πονηρός (ponéros) -- toilsome, bad

GRACE ambassador · May 11, 2021

Randy Kluth said:
It remains important for us, however, to continue walking with him in righteousness, so that we are not ashamed as his Coming.

AMEN! Those who are Eternally SAVED, can be "ashamed" At JUDGMENT Day!!
God Says It SO Plain And CLEAR, Through our apostle Of HIS GRACE, Paul:

"...If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: {SHAME!}

but...

...he himself SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire.
(1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 cp 1 Corinthians 5 : 5 KJB!)

Corlove13 · May 11, 2021

MatthewG said:
Hello Corlove13: Would like to add something to your red words:

To me this is what God's will is for us as believers in Christ Jesus and it can be found here: In verse 18.

1 Thessalonians 5:

12But we ask you (Paul) (1 Thess. 1:1), brothers (Those who are at Thessalonia (1 Thess 1:1-10), to acknowledge those who work diligently among you, who preside over you in the Lord and give you instruction (Speaking about those who elders in the church, in that time period: Paul is encouraging to listen to those who are working among you to help you in your faith, and trust in God, and finding the truth in the Gospel of Christ).

13In love (In love - Strong's Greek: 26. ἀγάπη (agapé) -- love, goodwill love), hold them in highest regard because of their work. (hold them in respect ~ as they are helping you in your faith ~ Also ~ If possible) Live in peace with one another. (By the spirit and with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

14And we urge you, brothers, to admonish (gently warn by the spirit) the unruly, encourage the fainthearted (encourage those weak in faith), help the weak (help the weak in strength), and be patient with everyone (be patient with everyone).

15Make sure that no one repays evil for evil (If someone commits and malicious action against you, trying to slander you, (if in real danger call police get help!), trying to say you did something when you did not do whatever it was a person is saying) ~ Pray for them, do not repay them back. Always pursue what is good for one another and for all people. (Always pursue what is good for one another and for all people).

16Rejoice at all times. (Lean on the Lord always) Strong's Greek: 5463. χαίρω (chairó) -- to rejoice, be glad

17Pray without ceasing. (Pray without ceasing) Strong's Greek: 89. ἀδιαλείπτως (adialeiptós) -- incessantly

18Give thanks in every circumstance, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. (Give thanks in every circumstance) Strong's Greek: 3956. πᾶς (pas) -- all, every: (For this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus) Strong's Greek: 2307. θέλημα (theléma) -- will

19Do not extinguish the Spirit. (Continue in faith; growing in knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and walking by the spirit)

20Do not treat prophecies with contempt, (encouragement to the Thessalonians : to not give up on the promises of God that were coming, including the return of the Lord Jesus Christ ~ the promises of Eternal Life ~ Holy spirit ~ communication with God through prayer)~ Resurrection from the dead Strong's Greek: 4394. προφητεία (prophéteia) -- prophecy Strong's Greek: 1848. ἐξουθενέω (exoutheneó) -- to despise, treat with contempt

21but test all things. Hold fast to what is good. Test all things ~ by the spirit/ by and with the word of God ~ Hold fast to what is good.

22Abstain from every form of evil.

Abstain from every form of maliciousness ~ bad evil. Strong's Greek: 4190. πονηρός (ponéros) -- toilsome, bad

Yes thank you...for Jesus's words...are what He spoke from God....and what we are to follow...

Taken · May 11, 2021

Corlove13 said:
The question then is not that God is with us, but are we with God?

The point is:
Gods Spirit, "ONLY" "with" a man, IS NOT Permanent.
Gods Spirit, "with and in" a man, IS Permanent.

When Gods Spirit, is "with" a man, the man is "with" God.
When Gods Spirit, is "with and in" a man, the man is "with and in" Gods Spirit.

That is why a Saved man is called "IN Christ".

Romans 8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to "them which are" in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 12
[5] So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Those "WITH and IN" Christ ARE Saved.
Those only "WITH" Christ ARE NOT SAVED.
Those NOT "WITH or IN" Christ ARE NOT SAVED.

Christ being "WITH" and "IN" a man IS a man who has been Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

kcnalp · May 11, 2021

Taken said:
Still deflecting. Yawn.

You are indeed!

I believe Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus shed His Blood for my salvation, Jesus is God in the flesh, the Bible is "God breathed", and Jesus the Savior is the ONLY way to salvation. OSAS says I can never be unsaved. Wish I could say the same for you!

Corlove13 · May 11, 2021

GRACE ambassador said:
AMEN! Those who are Eternally SAVED, can be "ashamed" At JUDGMENT Day!!
God Says It SO Plain And CLEAR, Through our apostle Of HIS GRACE, Paul:

"...If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: {SHAME!}

but...

...he himself SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!)

That scary....I read that last part...and never seen it the way I just read it. I MUST GO LOOK AT THE CONTEXT....MEANING SAVED FOR FIRE....

So basically heaven may just be Hell for one who doesn't purify themselves by the word.. now...

So There is a reason It is written in Thess

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And if we are the seed of Abraham....and we walk in His footsteps when do you think the Cov. Promises are released to us....as you read this passage in Genesis 17.

1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
By that same token we are said to be Holy
And told to walk by the Spirit. Christ has already walked before us and we are given His Spirit. SO ALL WE NEED TO DO IS WALK IN HIS FINISHED WORK....THIS IS HOW WE OVERCOME THIS WORLD....HOPEFULLY I DO NOT HAVE TO SAY HE HAS GIVEN THE SPIRIT ALREADY........

Taken · May 11, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Yes, it does mean they are converted.....

For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved. Romans 10:10

Why would the writer of Hebrews 4:14 be telling them to hold firmly to something they don't really have? ↓↓↓

Therefore, since we have a great high priest...let us hold firmly to what we profess. Hebrews 4:14

Why would you hold firmly to a winning lotto ticket someone brought and paid for for you?

In Scripture men "profess" belief....yep, yep, I believe....then the same man, 10 years later can say....eh, nope "I don't believe"....
Such a man existed 2,000 years ago, and exists today.

What a man DOES, has zero effect on what Jesus DID.
Jesus Gave HIS BODY (for the life of the whole world.)
Jesus Gave HIS BLOOD (for the forgiveness of non-belief of the whole world)
It's a GIFT, Jesus paid for, with the required "PAYMENT"....death of the body and blood of the body (which is the LIFE of every human body).

If you had a winning lotto ticket....but Never redeemed it to collect the prize, (according to the rules) too bad, so sad, you lost your prize.

If a man does not CLAIM his Salvation, already Paid for and FOR him (according to the rules...ie. Scriptural condition) too bad, so sad, they lose their salvation.

Men who ARE a bit wiser, hear, learn, understand, and RECEIVE their Salvation (according to Scriptural condition)...ONCE...
(Just as you would not keep returning the same lotto ticket over and over, thinking you can collect the prize over and over....neither do you collect your Salvation over and over.)

The condition, of collecting ones Salvation is Confession of belief....EXPRESSLY by ones hearts thoughts....not the MINDS thoughts...
The Hearts thoughts are the TRUEST thoughts of a man...the MIND is wishy washy, changes all the time.
God expressly hears, the hearts Confession...
Not the Minds.

Roman 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God

1 Chr 28:
[9] ... the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts

Rev 22:
[23] ... I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts...

Corlove13 · May 11, 2021

Taken said:
The point is:
Gods Spirit, "ONLY" "with" a man, IS NOT Permanent.
Gods Spirit, "with and in" a man, IS Permanent.

When Gods Spirit, is "with" a man, the man is "with" God.
When Gods Spirit, is "with and in" a man, the man is "with and in" Gods Spirit.

That is why a Saved man is called "IN Christ".

Romans 8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to "them which are" in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 12
[5] So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Those "WITH and IN" Christ ARE Saved.
Those only "WITH" Christ ARE NOT SAVED.
Those NOT "WITH or IN" Christ ARE NOT SAVED.

Christ being "WITH" and "IN" a man IS a man who has been Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Things do not always come to what they are suppose to be...
Why does it say my people perish? For lack of knowledge.

A sperm and egg come together and is called a zygote...a mother may said to be with child. But some type away the zygote may not get what it needs to survive because it grows outside the womb....so it dies and is aborted.

As scripture says cold or hot or........

So they are liken to this passage:

You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.”

And as the case with many who were taught the OSAS as the
foundation of salvation: Believe Jesus died for your sins and you have heaven when you die.

so many may think they need nothing else.

However Justification and Sanctification go together.
If not it's like saying you can be a Christian but not a disciple.

But Jesus commanded to make disciples by bapizing...teaching them to observe all the things He commanded.......and lo He would be with them until the end...dont quote my word there.... So does it sound like you can be a Christian and not do anything Jesus commanded?

Wrangler · May 11, 2021

Corlove13 said:
Because they do not see sanctification as part of Salvation...

Worse, they do no see holding onto the life raft as necessary action once Jesus throws the life raft to us, drowning in our own sins.

Worst of all, they deny Jesus waits to throw the life raft to us pending our action to put faith in his saving us.

Taken · May 11, 2021

Blood Bought 1953 said:
One who is an Unbeliever his entire life is damned

A Believer who got confused or fell into Error and lost their Faith , if that is even possible , I think will be brought back to Faith before they die. If they are not brought back and die in a state of Unbelief , I think there is hope for them because Jesus said that even though we may become “ unfaithful”.....” HE” Remains Faithful......
Also, Jesus says when you get Saved you ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and NOTHING can make you come under Condemnation.....he says that no Future Act can take you from the Father’s Grip....if you got Saved and then lost your Faith, that mistake would be a future event that happened after you got Saved.....and should not count against you....you are still in His grasp...

The Bible says that” Anybody that asks to be Saved, WILL be Saved” .....no matter WHAT happens to a person that sincerely sees that he is a Lost Sinner and at ANY Point in his life, turns to God with Faith in Jesus Christ —- that guy is gonna be Saved . The most important thing in the universe is at stake—- God’s Word.The Onus is on “Him” to “ Finish what He started”..... He can handle it . He WILL handle it.He will NOT go back on His Word.....it is impossible...Despite a person’s error and Stupidity....

Okay, thanks.
Disagree in part.
People can believe for eons, but never confess till laying on their death bed, and be saved.
People can believe for eons, but never confess, and not be saved.
People who have "heartfully" confessed, ARE Saved, Period.

Jews "according to their law"... violation of their law, against a man, was a sin. "They" forgave each other of sins. They did not "become" Saved, until "their" physical death. Old Covenant.
Reason: Jesus is first in everything.
Jesus had not yet arrived to give His Body unto death.

New Covenant - men can ask God for forgiveness of their sin...
*Their sin is: their flesh body, (naturally born in sin), corrupting their soul, being in their sinful body, and their natural spirit (ie their natural truth in their heart).
* men can Confess true heartful belief...
Thereafter....God accepts their body, crucified with Christ, (washes their body, in Christs blood, Sanctifies their body, (Sets it apart from all unconverted, kept by Christ), justifies their body to be Raised in a glorified by, and covers their body, (with Gods light "internally", that their forgiven sin is not seen by God or remembered by God.
Their soul is restored, back to good, as when God blew His breath of life in their body, called saved.
God circumcises their heart, cuts off the old, gives them a new heart. In their new heart Gods seed enters, and birth them a new spirit, called the Spirit of Truth (Gods Truth).
In the mans New Heart and New Truth is where Gods Spirit Dwells.
Such a man IS Converted, and thereafter called a "son of God".
This man can NEVER AGAIN SIN...(which means....reject the Lord God....Never again not believe IN the Lord God Almighty).

Such a man "uses" Christ Jesus' risen body to "spiritually exist".

Such a man obviously is still in his natural flesh, with a natural mind, that thinks and does dumb stuff. We are not under Jewish Law...but there is plenty of Trespasses, men can do against men. Lie, cheat, steal, blah, blah....
Instructions to a Converted man IS, to take responsibility for your trespasses against other men. Pay your debt to them, ask for their forgiveness of your trespass against them, and forgive others of their trespasses against you.
DO that, and the Lord God has already said He will also forgive your trespasses against men.
So...according to Scripture Sin is only Against God and only Forgiven BY God....and that is precisely ALL forgiven once a man is Converted. And no future Sin is committed.
So...no I do not sin again men, nor do they sin against me. And no I can not sin against God....ANY MORE. Never Again.
THat does not make me sinless. THat does make me a Forgiven sinner, who sins no more.

The Unbelieving, who heard and chose not to believe, do not go to heaven.

God Bless,
Taken

GracePeace · May 11, 2021

Osiris said:
Im a joke? You saying Paul spoke Greek means nothing since he was a Hebrew of Hebrews of the seed of jacob(Israel) from the tribe of Benjamin. He was also a Roman citizen. Do you know the lingua franca around Paul’s time would koine Greek? If you understand that you would understand why the letter to the churches would be in Greek. Jesus is a transliteration and romanized word. But if I be a fool let me be a for in hamashyach.
Ps: Obsession would mean that I harbor feeling or yearn for “respect” yet I don’t need yours
But God respects the seed of Israel

1. Why don't you make a thread in the subject? It's off-topic.

2 So... since Paul told people to call on the Hellenized form of Messiah's Name... the Anglicized version also works right?

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