So you expect me, a loving caring person to believe this? God would never do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek
Amalek people
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Well, God said he did it. Sometimes - and it's not fun nor by first choice - evil has to be removed. In Deuteronomy 25:17-19 it clearly states that the Amalekites essentially picked off the weak and sickly. Unfortunately, "please stop" doesn't always get the job done. Whether we'll admit it or not (and most often not in the modern pc and relativistic generations), sometimes entire cultures breed evil. That certainly seems to be the case here.
Well it's not documented, but we've all seen the pictures of the 12-year-olds (and younger) with AK-47s, so it probably did happen in that era as well. Again, a culture immersed in it with hearts turned away from God and love would be Father's jurisdiction. He'd (and does continue to) know that (the heard and mind) better than any one of us.
A 12 year old isn't a child. I am talking about 2 or 3 year olds and infants. Let me ask you a few questions.
1) Would you stab a child in this photo?*
2) If they asked why you were murdering them, what would you say to them?
3) What is going through your minds when you say you would murder a child?
4) If you were sent into a time machine, would you have honestly joined the wholesale slaughter of children?
*I am not trying to be overly graphic here. I simply think you should have a REAL idea what you are saying you would not have a problem committing. It is easy to say "yeah I would kill all the Amalekites", but when you actually imagine the horror of what really happened, you see things differently. These were REAL human beings with REAL lives and with REAL feelings and with REAL desires and ambitions. And I chose children that is ethnically correct, so it is most likely what they looked like.
God killed everybody in the flood except Noah and his family.
God has killed a lot of people since then.
He will kill a lot more in the future.
He seems to do it because of the evil in mankind.
It is though they are evil beyond redemption and must be destroyed.
For some reason, he has decided to save some of us .
He says he does so based on love.
That is where the phrase ... "loving God" ... comes from.
The rest of the time he is destroying evil and that is where the phrase ... "angry God" ... comes from.
God lets us chose our position. We alone decide our destiny. The rules are already established .
tomwebster
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So, DS, if God told you to kill them you would tell God, "No, I will not do that." You think you know better than God.
Ah, but you're trying so hard to frame the argument. Either God is a baby-murderer or he is a bad person (a bad god).
The Israelites this culture killed were also real. There are things you don't know. There are things I do not know. God knows them. God knows the heart and for some important reason this culture was to be wiped out. I don't know that I would have been able to handle the situation like Abraham did, but God has a reason in everything. You're not really going to shake faith in God when we also recognize that he allows disasters (tsunamis, earthquakes, famines, etc.) because there is a greater purpose. This flesh body is only a tiny fraction of eternity and just perhaps their death saved their eternal life.
I'm not sure how you'd respond if you child or family was faced with annihilation. You're giving me a scenario in a vacuum which is apples to oranges. If a group wanted to wipe out my loved ones, you can sure bet I would do what I have to do and it might not always be pleasant or ideal. In that day in time where was no UN, no US army, nor anything of the sort. If you killed the males, then the children would simply grow up in anger/resentment and do it all over again. Modern logic has no concept of this reality of the time.
The Israelites this culture killed were also real. There are things you don't know. There are things I do not know. God knows them. God knows the heart and for some important reason this culture was to be wiped out. I don't know that I would have been able to handle the situation like Abraham did, but God has a reason in everything. You're not really going to shake faith in God when we also recognize that he allows disasters (tsunamis, earthquakes, famines, etc.) because there is a greater purpose. This flesh body is only a tiny fraction of eternity and just perhaps their death saved their eternal life.
I'm not sure how you'd respond if you child or family was faced with annihilation. You're giving me a scenario in a vacuum which is apples to oranges. If a group wanted to wipe out my loved ones, you can sure bet I would do what I have to do and it might not always be pleasant or ideal. In that day in time where was no UN, no US army, nor anything of the sort. If you killed the males, then the children would simply grow up in anger/resentment and do it all over again. Modern logic has no concept of this reality of the time.
1) I am believe (in fact I know) God never has killed anyone, or will kill anyone.
2) The flood never happened. I hate to ruin your fairy tale fun. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_sD_7rxYoZY
3) Please answer a,b,c and d. By the way, I am not tying to make you play a game with me or anything, I am just trying to gauge other Christians response to this sort of thing. I am writing a book and I would really like at least 3 or 4 other users to answer a,b,c and d for me. I don't plan on including your response word-for-word or even saying where it came from so feel free to say what you want.
2) The flood never happened. I hate to ruin your fairy tale fun. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_sD_7rxYoZY
3) Please answer a,b,c and d. By the way, I am not tying to make you play a game with me or anything, I am just trying to gauge other Christians response to this sort of thing. I am writing a book and I would really like at least 3 or 4 other users to answer a,b,c and d for me. I don't plan on including your response word-for-word or even saying where it came from so feel free to say what you want.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The Bible is inspired by God, but written by a defeated and enslaved people - long after the events occurred. The people they were writing about were desert nomads who were highly nationalistic - we know that many of the numbers of warriors and those they reported to kill are highly inflated in favor of the Israelites, for example (some of the numbers reported are greater than the population of the entire region, at the time). Jesus clarified the Old Testament - the sum of the Law is Love, not murder or end justifying the means ethics. The point of the OT is "God is all-powerful" AND a record of how humanity failed to deal with this fact and relate to Him. It took Jesus's example of obedience and Love for God and neighbor before humans even started to get a clue about how to relate to God.
Christians are called to love radically - not to justify or (God forbid!) emulate the ends justifying the means ethics of the OT.
As far as The Flood account, The Creation Story, Jonah and the Fish, and the Book of Job - the point is not to determine if they "really" happened! One of the downsides of living in a Post-Enlightenment era is that we have an agenda whenever we study anything - first we decide if it really happened or not and if there is not proof that it happened we dismiss it - as if, being scientifically unsubstantiated means that the story does not contain important, crucial truths. The result is a very narrow world - confined to the material and definable.
It reminds me of a group of five year olds naming the objects in their world - while missing everything they are not able to understand in the adult world.
Hope that helps
Christians are called to love radically - not to justify or (God forbid!) emulate the ends justifying the means ethics of the OT.
As far as The Flood account, The Creation Story, Jonah and the Fish, and the Book of Job - the point is not to determine if they "really" happened! One of the downsides of living in a Post-Enlightenment era is that we have an agenda whenever we study anything - first we decide if it really happened or not and if there is not proof that it happened we dismiss it - as if, being scientifically unsubstantiated means that the story does not contain important, crucial truths. The result is a very narrow world - confined to the material and definable.
It reminds me of a group of five year olds naming the objects in their world - while missing everything they are not able to understand in the adult world.
Hope that helps
Way to go! Kill the nationalistic children!
Uh, yeah it is.
There are absolutely no downsides to living an enlinghted era.
Here is a simple formula.
Enlightenment (E)
Truth (T)
Good (G)
E=T
T=G
But I am really looking for an answer to 1,2,3 and 4.
So you would fight the Israelites?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Hmm.....I was hoping you were up for a real discussion. I am disappointed.
I would never kill a person because God told me to do so - never. In fact, if I was kneeling before god in heaven and he asked me why I never killed anyone in his name (or even hated anyone in his name), I would consider myself in the wrong place because I know the character of the true God is love.
Um...one more thing - all people were tribal and nationalistic back then - and they all justified their actions by claiming their gods told them to do it - so why are you singling out the Hebrew tribes?
Points you missed ->
Amalekites were Nephillim, Esau wiped out all of Seir Horites, Samuel's whats all this bleeping in my Ears Saul? Hammon's persecution of the Jews in Babylon. The last Hyksos Kingship, Idumea, Edom ... Herod's murder of innocents to prevent the Messiah from coming. Many other Heathen Accounts of Genocide, the Time, Place & Setting of the Exodus, Etc ... ^ Just to name a few. Without the Context to what Scriptures say. Stop Looking For Emotional Responses!
Amalekites were Nephillim, Esau wiped out all of Seir Horites, Samuel's whats all this bleeping in my Ears Saul? Hammon's persecution of the Jews in Babylon. The last Hyksos Kingship, Idumea, Edom ... Herod's murder of innocents to prevent the Messiah from coming. Many other Heathen Accounts of Genocide, the Time, Place & Setting of the Exodus, Etc ... ^ Just to name a few. Without the Context to what Scriptures say. Stop Looking For Emotional Responses!
Yes, that is why I am writing my book. Because I know God wouldn't send a "giant flood" (which is more ridicules then Humpty Dumpty by the way), and on top of that, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that a giant flood ever happened. And I know God would never ask someone to slit a child's throat. Or thrust a knife into a child's little chest.
Some people are REALLY messed up to believe this. I mean if you watch a violent show where children get hurt or killed that is REALLY messed up, but to endorse/support killing children in real life IS INFINITY MESSED UP. You agree?
I am not singling out only the Hebrew tribes. I fight anyone who kills innocent people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o
I highly suggest you watch it.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Lots of people are REALLY messed up for many reasons.
I enjoy studying many ancient writings from many different cultures - they all seem strange to modern eyes - but I am not chronologically arrogant enough to ridicule any of them just because my culture only values a narrow view of reality
There is a difference between culture and killing children. I don't care what your "culture" is, if it includes killing children, it is wrong. No matter what time or place it is.
I am a person who thinks long and hard about things I do not like in the Old Testament. I do that for the simple reason that I have been challenged by the fact that my beloved God of Israel has authored the slaughter of so called "innocents"
We must admit it has happened. The slaughter has happened that is. The "innocents" are maybe something we invented ourselves.
I love innocent children , and innocent adults , and most of us here do as well. But is it possible that some races or tribes have only a genetic disposition for harm , and God knew it in advance , and had them all destroyed , simply in order to put an end to it. ??
We would be quick to blame God if he let evil folks thrive and multiply. If He ended it early we would be quick to blame him for that as well. Which sounds exactly like some folks here are trying to do.
God has a history of preserving the good before he destroys the evil.
Some folks only see an evil God , and everything is evil except they themselves. Just ask them. They say God is evil , but they themselves are not. Just ask them. Just read what they post. Read between the lines. They make God out to be evil in order to make themselves look good. That is the motive.
God sees the motives and hearts of men
and women
and children
in advance.
All of a sudden I have a new worry.
What exactly will the mean old God do to Doctor Smart.
Worry , worry worry , it is a weakness that I have.
Sure glad I am not in his shoes , the doctor's shoes that is.
Heap big trouble for him says Chief Geronimo.
We must admit it has happened. The slaughter has happened that is. The "innocents" are maybe something we invented ourselves.
I love innocent children , and innocent adults , and most of us here do as well. But is it possible that some races or tribes have only a genetic disposition for harm , and God knew it in advance , and had them all destroyed , simply in order to put an end to it. ??
We would be quick to blame God if he let evil folks thrive and multiply. If He ended it early we would be quick to blame him for that as well. Which sounds exactly like some folks here are trying to do.
God has a history of preserving the good before he destroys the evil.
Some folks only see an evil God , and everything is evil except they themselves. Just ask them. They say God is evil , but they themselves are not. Just ask them. Just read what they post. Read between the lines. They make God out to be evil in order to make themselves look good. That is the motive.
God sees the motives and hearts of men
and women
and children
in advance.
All of a sudden I have a new worry.
What exactly will the mean old God do to Doctor Smart.
Worry , worry worry , it is a weakness that I have.
Sure glad I am not in his shoes , the doctor's shoes that is.
Heap big trouble for him says Chief Geronimo.
Well, isn't abortion Murder? Hasn't mass genocide been created here? Does anyone do anything about it? Do these children have a say in it? These are only emotional appeals, to shift the blame to each and every christian for others past sins. I suggest that you actually look at the information. I certainly do not think one article on Wiki, explains in depth the conflict between the sons of god, fallen angels, Annunaki ... who were all worshipped and deified as gods and always attested to as being special or different or superior to others. Your Lack of Understanding of the Scriptures leaves only a huge gap in your reasoning. If this is some mind game, I'm On To You. If this Psychobabble is meant to shake someone's faith go somewhere else. You say your only doing this for academic reasons, but you force your ignorant premises on us? Why, to make us the victomb's of your (justice) oppression, and then justify it? If you really are concerned, a little kindness goes a long away, a little hurt may take longer to heal.
http://www.christian...itive-material/
http://www.christian...al/page__st__60
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=197489
(Flood) From Here ->
http://www.unexplain...c=196092&st=210
http://www.unexplain...c=196092&st=255
<-To Here (Other Stuff)
http://www.christian...itive-material/
http://www.christian...al/page__st__60
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=197489
(Flood) From Here ->
http://www.unexplain...c=196092&st=210
http://www.unexplain...c=196092&st=255
<-To Here (Other Stuff)
Yes, and I am of course totally against it.
Yes.
Yes. I am a proud member of various pro-life organizations.
1) I am Christian.
2) I am writing a book, and I want OTHER people's response to the genocide.
3) I don't need to read the Bible (I already have mind you) to know murdering children is wrong.
4) Please, answer 1,2,3 and 4. And if anyone wants I will credit them. I haven't gotten a response, and I really want some answers to it. I am basing 3 whole chapters around that question.
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