The true sin committed in Eden

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Amazing Grace

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Mar 21, 2011
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Hey HammerStone. I hope all is good. I also would hold some real questions with your view (though of course, nothing personal) but because of time, I would just for now wonder what you think of Jesus when He states in Matthew that angels (which Satan is) cannot reproduce. What do you make of that passage in relation to Genesis? Also, I guess what came to mind in a more natural train of thought was this. Here is Eve, (pardon my tone) going at it with Lucifer, and here is Adam, watching this go down. "Come on, Adam, this is great" says Eve. If I was Adam, after Eve being created for me alone, and me alone being the one making love to her, I would be one very very upset man to see my wife with this, shall we say, handsome angle, and for the life of me, I cannot see how Adam would say, "Jeepers, maybe your right, this could be fun".

About the fruit, you are right that it can often refer to acts of sex and such, but if the picture we see in Revelation (21) is the finale garden of Eden, or paradise, than the fruit trees in Revelation certainly do not represent anything but what is stated in scripture. Fruit of course can also refer to the fruits of the Spirit, which in this case, of course, is unlikely.

In any event, it was an interesting read, and certainly much study has gone into it. When more time becomes at my side, perhaps I will research it further myself.

God bless brother

Stranger

I thought that was a good point so I decided to look up the scriptures you mentioned. Reading the verses it doesn't say anything about not having sexual organs.
Jesus only said people in heaven would be like the Angels not getting married. So to bring that to some sort of conclusion I would say the Angels didn't have sex in Heaven. People won't either when we get there.

MT 22:29 Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

MK 12:24 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.



However the Angels on the Earth were not in Heaven. So maybe on the Earth the Fallen Angels were tempted? If they had the physical equipment what was stopping them? Just following logic.

{An Aisde:- Someone mentioned to me once that they observed all Angels mentioned in the Bible were male. Could be another reason why they don't reproduce in Heaven? This is an aside and please don't take me too seriously on this little bit of Trivia. Besides I haven't checked it out, I could be wrong.}

Well that's all I got. Back to the rest of you now.
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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I just read Hammerstone's private interpretation of genesis 3.

I admit that he put great effort to impose and embellish his accusations against Eve, our common mother. Needless to say, I think it very unchristian to bear false witness against anyone.

I find a great many flaws in the assumptions made. I find a great many unanswered questions that would arise based on the conclusions given.

For starters, it is my clear understanding that Adam is indeed the first man placed upon this earth. Can anyone show otherwise?

Second, the author indicates that Satan has a body and can procreate. Can anyone give clear evidence to support such a conclusion?
If so where and when was he born? Who were his parents?

Hello,Job

At your" for starters",Adam was not the first man,if you read the first chapter of Gen,you should see that,God created male and female at the same time,...

Now,why do you think it odd that satan has a body?The two angels who came to Sodom,did they not have bodies,they even ate food with Lot....Now,lrts see what happened in the Garden...


Genesis Chapter 3

"The Fall of Mankind."

This Bible Study is written by Roger Christopherson, and it's transcription/ location
is provided by http://www.theseason.org/


Trees and a serpent are given in this chapter to represent men. God, in fact, calls Himself the Evergreen tree, or Fir tree in Ezekiel 31:8. To understand what, and who this serpent is, we turn to Revelation 20:2 to clear up our understanding. "And He laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan," So we see that it is Satan that is the serpent. Satan also has many other names, and in this final generation he will be known as "the Antichrist", and the "son of perdition".

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

We will not see Christ's coming while we are in these flesh bodies. However, we will see and live through in the flesh the one world system when Satan, the man of sin, also called the son of perdition is worshipped as God. Satan comes at the sixth trump, whereas our Lord Jesus Christ returns at the seventh and last trump.

In the role that Satan will play very shortly as "the Antichrist", God will give him the keys or authority to rule the earth. Jesus talked about this in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. We are also given in Revelation 12:9 the answer that takes all the mystery out of who the serpent of Genesis 3 is; "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." We will see this happen shortly.

Just as the "tree of Life" plays two rolls in the beginning, so also will Satan play two rolls. Satan is present in the Garden of Eden, and he played the role of the "serpent", and the "tree of good and evil". This word "serpent" in the Hebrew text is "Nachash", and is from the root word, # 5172 in Strong's Hebrew dictionary, "meaning to whisper a magic spell, a divine enchanter."

In II Corinthians 11:3, Paul tells us that Satan was "transformed", however in the Greek text it reads; "disguised" as an "angel of light", to deceive Eve.

Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And He said unto the woman, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden"?"

Satan is "more subtil", and wiser then the ways of the world. The word "beast" does not refer only to the animal world, but all living beings, including man. When Satan asked the question to Eve, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" He was not asking the question for the sake of inquiring, but to draw her attention to the matter. This was much like the method that the slick car salesman, or vacuum cleaner salesman uses in breaking down the resistance of the client. He uses the questions to force the person to agree with him. So, within the questions is the key to overcoming the mental barrier, and allowing half truths to be accepted, and twisted the mind of the person to accept a lie as the truth.

Satan's quotation of God, "Ye shall not eat of every tree of the Garden?" is stated in the form of a lie, from what God actually stated in Genesis 2:16 and 17. The exception to "every tree" was, "...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat." That tree [man] is Satan.

This is Satan's first utterance in Scripture, and he knows from the start his opposition to God's word. For it is God's Word in the first earth age that sentenced Satan to death, and that is where his name "son of perdition" comes from. Satan is out to foul up the entire plan of God for the ages, which was to make way for the Christ child, whereby all of God's children can be drawn back to Him.

Genesis 3:2 "And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:"

Genesis 3:3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die'."

Satan [the serpent] started the misquoting when he changed the words of God from "the tree of good and evil", [which is Satan the only exception], to "fruit of the trees of the garden". Now we see Eve continues the misquoting of Scripture, and twisting God's Word to change the entire meaning. God said, "Thou shalt surely die."; where as in the confusion caused by Satan's twisting, Eve is showing her ignorance in her statement; "lest ye die". It sounds like Eve just bought a car, and a vacuum cleaner, or worse then that, Satan's lie.

Are we talking about eating fruit from trees, or even trees in this chapter? No, We are talking about symbols for people, which are represented as the trees. When we look up the common word for "trees" in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary, we find the number # 6086. It reads; "ets, ates; from # 6095, stock tree, timber, wood." It is a common tree.

However the trees in the garden of Eden reads, # 6095. We read in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary; "Atsah, aw-tsaw, prime root, prop. to fasten (or make firm), i.e., to close (the eyes): shut." Under # 6095 Hebrew for trees in the garden) page 90 of Strong's Hebrew dictionary, the other reference to this is # 6096.

The # 6096; "Atseh, aw-tseh, from 6095; the spine, (as giving firmness to the body):-backbone." This # 6096 "atseh" is the tree referred to in Genesis 3:3. In referring to the fruit of a tree, then, you are talking about children.

What runs through the backbone of your body? It is your central nervous system. It is controlling the opening, or closing of your eye. In fact it controls every movement that a person makes, as the system continues the process of sending messages to and from your brain, which never stops. All bodies of all mankind are made in the image of God, whether in the soul body [angelic] like of the first earth age, or the physical body we posses in this earth age. Though the appearance [image] is the same, the substance of our physical bodies are different from the soul bodies.

Although manna, the angel food, supported the Israelites in the wilderness [Exodus 16]; when the angels came to earth, as stated in Genesis 6, they survived from the food of physical man.

There is another word in this third verse we must understand, and it is the word "touch". God's command to Eve was; "neither shall ye touch it." In the Hebrew text the number for this word "touch" is # 5060 in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary. It reads; "Naga, neh-gah; a prime root, prop. to touch, i.e., lay the hand upon (for the purpose; euphemism, to lie with a woman), to reach, "

So we see that the warning to Adam and Eve specifically, was to stay away from Satan [called both the "serpent", and the "tree of good and evil"]. The fruit of that tree was not to be taken; and we know that the "fruit" as the results of a sexual relationship between any man and woman is a child. God's command was that Eve "not touch [lay with Satan]." So by reviewing the Hebrew text, we see that the order by God is that Eve not have sexual union with Satan." Eve was a woman living in the flesh, with all the limits of the flesh, while Satan is not of the flesh, but a supernatural person from another dimension.

Genesis 3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die:"

Satan, throughout the entire Scripture, has had that way about him. However, before we continue in Genesis, lets see what Paul and Jesus had to say on this matter. We read in II Corinthians 11:1; "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me." The Apostle Paul is saying, I want to tell you what is really on my heart.

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

"Espoused" is to cause one to become engaged. What is the subject and the object here? The subject is "presenting you as a chaste virgin; while the object is loosing ones virginity." Christ is the husband and we are the bride of Christ. This is using a flesh term to explain a spiritual matter. Virginity is a state of condition relating only to sexual matters of a woman [female], and when Christ called the church His bride, He expects us to act as a bride.

II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." In other words, you turn away from the simplicity of reading God's Word.

The word "beguiled" in the Strong's Greek dictionary is # 1818; "exapatao, ex-ap-at ah-o, from 1537 and 538, to seduce wholly, to beguile, deceive." In # 1537 we read; "ex, shows point of origin".

This verse has only one meaning, and that is not to be wholly seduced, and lose your virginity as Eve did. So in the Greek text this verse would read; "I am afraid your going to lose your virginity as Eve did, who was wholly seduced by the serpent [Satan]." Paul will say later in this chapter [verse 14], "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed [fashioned himself] into an angel of light." Upon Satan's arrival on earth very shortly, he will appear just as Jesus Himself will appear. The word "transformed" in the Greek manuscripts is, "disguised" as an angel of light.

II Corinthians 11:4 "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

If someone preaches another Jesus; another message; a story of some apple on a tree, or any other Satanic type lie or distortion, then mark him well. Or if they bring any child's play into God's House, or short cuts to the Gospel of Christ; Paul is saying that it seems to him that you swallow it wholly. It seems also that the churches of today go hunting for someone to deceive them.

Paul is telling us that when you accept lies for what happened in the Garden of Eden, you are accepting an damnable lie. We know that by accepting this lie, then you are thrown off the understanding of the true "parable of the sower". Friend, there is no way you can understand any of the other parables in the Bible, if you do not understand what happened in the Garden of Eden.

II Corinthians 11:12 "But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we."

Paul is telling us that he is out to jerk the rug out from under these false teachers, to make them straighten up and teach the true Word of God.

II Corinthians 11:13 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ."

They call themselves "apostles of Christ", but they are deceivers, and false apostles. When ministers and teachers of the gospel preach another message, without letting their flock know exactly what happened in the Garden of Eden, they become liars and deceivers to their flocks.

II Corinthians 11:15 "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

When Satan comes again, he will come disguised as Jesus Christ. Friend, if you do not know what happened in the Garden of Eden you will be fooled. For Satan's kids, the "Kenites", the offspring through "Cain" of the sexual relations between Eve and Satan, are paving the road for you to accept Satan upon his [Satan's] arrival to earth.

Remember, "touch" means "to lie with a woman". Tell it like it is.

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Satan is twisting God's Word and telling Eve, "your not going to die". However, when she takes Satan to herself, just the opposite will happen. Her eyes will be closed and her mind shut to the simplicity of God's word. "Knowing" and "evil" are enlightenment in the wrong way.

Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and the tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

Satan is the most beautiful created being that God ever created. Ezekiel 24 tells us that Satan was the most beautiful tree to be desired. Eve took of that fruit of Satan, which is another way of saying that she lost her virginity through the sex act, and Adam also played the game with Eve and Satan.

Genesis 3:7 "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

Once this sin was committed, their eyes were open to wickedness, but closed to truth. Think on this! Jesus told us to learn the "parable of the fig tree" in three of the gospels. This warning is given in Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28, and Luke 21:29; yet most churches of today are completely ignoring God's warning, and following after fairy tales the Kenites are teaching them.

Adam and Eve are in a fig orchard, and not an apple orchard. Do you think that they made apple masks from apple tree leaves to cover their mouths? How silly can you get! Yet this is the type of ignorance being preached from most pulpits today. Adam and Eve made aprons out of fig leaves to cover their private parts, for their sin was the sex act with Satan. Once this sinks into your mind, then you will start to understand the truth that is winding through the entire scriptures. You will see why it was important to the Kenites that you believe a lie, for this lie allows them to virtually take over the duties of the scribes [I Chronicles 2:55]. These Kenites, or sons of Satan, took control of the interpretation of the words that God spoke to His children through the prophets coming out of the Babylonian captivity.

I Chronicles 2:55 "And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez [Jerusalem]; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchatites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab."

The sons of Levi were to be the priests and the keepers of God's house. The Levitical priests were to carry out the duties of the sacrifices, as well as the teachers of the Temple, and the recorders and keepers of God's instructions to His people. These Kenites are not of God, but of that sexual union between Satan and Eve. They are the offspring of Cain, and the oriental woman [from the land of Nod] that he took to wife. The Kenites are not of Abraham, nor are they of Judah, but of their father Rechab, of the lineage of Cain, from the land of Hemath.

Strong's Hebrew dictionary classifies these Kenites under # 7014 and 7017. #7014 states: "Qayin, kah'-yin; the same as 7013 (with the play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe:-Cain, Kenites."

# 7017; "Qiyniy (I Chronicles 2:55), kee-nee'; patron. from 7014, a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin: Kenite." The Kenites is not a member of the tribe of Judah or any other tribe of Israel, but from the tribe of Kajin. The Kenite is not of the seed of Abraham, but they have assumed the role of the Levitical priests because the Israelites allowed them to sit in the seat of Moses and teach their traditions instead of God's Word.

When you come to the understand of what took place in Eden, then you will understand the "parable of the sower and fig tree" which is the key to most of the prophecies of both the Old and New Testaments. To this day, fig leaves symbolize that which is hidden. That thing hidden within Eve's womb was an evil thing. It turned out to be Cain, who was the first murderer, because his father was a murderer and a liar.

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden."

Genesis 3:9 "And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, "Where art thou?"

Genesis 3:10 "And he said, "I heard Thy voice in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."

Genesis 3:11 "And He said, "Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"

God Himself walked and talked with this first man of the Garden of Eden. Adam had the glory, and mercy of contact with almighty God. God loved Adam so much that He formed this special garden just for him and his wife Eve. The law that existed at that time consisted of only one thing; "Don't eat of that one tree". Don't mess around with Satan.

Satan knew God's plan, that the Christ would come through the womb of Eve, and Satan was out to destroy that plan of God's. Satan wanted to destroy the seed of the woman, meaning "Christ". Satan tried to see to it that the lineage of Christ would become polluted, and that the promised Messiah would be unable to give Himself for the perfect sacrifice, so that men and women could be brought back to the Father, our God.

We see in the sixth chapter that Satan tried again to destroy the plan of God, when he sent his fallen angels to destroy woman again. The results of that try by Satan was the creation of hybrids [the Nephilim, or Giants].

Genesis 3:12 "And the man said, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

Adam is trying to put the blame for his actions and sin on his wife. We see that not much has changed in the past six thousand years. Adam was responsible because it was he that was placed in charge, and given instruction to not mess around with Satan.

Genesis 3:13 "And the Lord God said unto the woman, "What is this that thou hast done?" And the woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

This is the same reason that Paul used in his concern about the end generation. He worried that the Church, or body of Christ would not understand that the false Christ will come disguised as the true Christ. They would rather hear and believe fairy tales then the truth of God's Word. Are you ashamed to talk about what happened in the garden of Eden with a friend? If you are, my friend, you have serious problems for you are living in a time when all prophecy of this age will come to a conclusion, and you will be deceived as Eve was.

Eve stated just as Paul quoted her; "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Eve had intercourse with Satan and lost her virginity. From that union came Cain, the father of all Kenites. Learn the truth.

Genesis 3:14 "And the Lord God said unto the serpent, "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"

This is God speaking to Satan. God is cursing Satan above all living creatures. This is a figure of speech, meaning you are the lowest thing of all creation. Now God continues to speak to the serpent [Satan].

Genesis 3:15 "And I [God] will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman [Eve], and between thy seed [the Kenites] and her Seed [Jesus Christ]; It [Christ] shall bruise thy [Satan's] head, and thou [Satan] shalt bruise His [Christ's] heel."

Eve's seed is our Lord Jesus Christ. While Satan's seed are the children, to the last generation, called the Kenites. Those offspring are born from the sexual union between Eve and Satan [the serpent, and the tree of good and evil]. God is telling us that He will put trouble between Eve's children [through Adam and Seth], and Satan's offspring through Cain, called the Kenites.

It is Jesus Christ that shall bruise the head of Satan, at Christ's return at the second advent; while it was Satan's children the Kenites, [not brother Judah] that bruised the heel of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary. This was done when the spikes were driven through Christ's heel, as He hung on the cross to pay the full price for our sins, once and for all.

Most "men of God" acknowledge that Genesis 3:15 is talking about the death of Jesus Christ, when He was nailed to the cross for our sins. They recognize that "seed" is referring to the children of the woman "Eve", yet somehow they just want to spiritualize everything else that happened in the Garden of Eden between Eve and the two men [Satan and Adam]. The "seed" in the Hebrew is called "zirmah", and in the Greek it is "sperma". We in the English call it "sperm", and in Strongs Hebrew Dictionary # 2233; "Posterity, carnally, child, fruitful". Friend, it can't be any clearer. The seed of Satan's "posterity" are the "Kenites", while Adam's posterity is in Christ, and of the pure bloodline through Seth.

Until you understand what really took place in the Garden of Eden, and why; it will be difficult for you to grow up and mature in the Word of God, and in true Christianity.

Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

This is God's instruction to the woman. Did God say that He would give Eve a tummy ache for eating too many apple seeds? No; the word in any language that you translate it in, is "conception". To "conceive" is to be impregnated with a child. This places the woman's position in the home under the man. You may say, well, did Jesus teach that? Just the asking of the question alone reflects your understanding of God's Word. Turn to Matthew 13, and see what Jesus said about what happened in the beginning. Jesus is answering His disciples, and telling them that if you don't understand this [the parable of the sower] you are not going to understand any of My parables.

Remember how Jesus told the "Parable of the sower"; how the good man planted the seed, and the enemy came in the night and planted another seed. That enemy was Satan, and as we are seeing in Genesis 3, he planted the bad seed in Eve. That is why God put enmity between the "Kenites" [Satan's seed], and Jesus Christ, and caused the Kenites to kill the Messiah, Jesus Christ. After Jesus told his parable of the sower, His disciples asked Him why He always talked in parables in public. Then in Matthew 13:11 Jesus answered.

Matthew 13:11 "He [Jesus] answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of heaven, but to them it is not given".

God simply does not want these scribes and Kenite Jewish leaders to understand. They are the negative part of God's plan.

In Matthew 13:37 Jesus is going to explain to the disciples the "parable of the sower" [fig tree]; "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;"

"The Son of man" as it is used here is in reference to Adam, and not Christ [per reference from the Hebrew Massorah text]. Jesus is not speaking in parable here, but explaining one.

Matthew 13:38 "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;"

The "world" is this place we live in and walk on in this earth age, and we see here we are not talking about apple seeds. The "tares" are the children of the wicked one who is Satan. Those children are called Kenites.

Matthew 13:39 "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

The "devil" is known by many names, such as the "tree of good and evil", and the "serpent" here in Genesis 3, but he is Satan. Though many would like to separate the good and the bad seed now, Jesus is telling us that that is the job of the angels.

Matthew 13:40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

If you do not understand what happened in this parable, then you will be ignorant of who the Kenites [the tares] really are. This will leave you open to the deceptions that are covering the earth in these final days, and you will be taken up by them. Satan's kids, the Kenites, infiltrated the religious ranks of the Jewish leaders in Babylon [I Chronicles 2:55, and Ezra 2:43-65], and today they have infiltrated the Christian ranks of the Church leadership.

Understand that the product of Eve's sin was bearing a child by Satan, and that child's name was "Cain". Jesus explained this parable of what went on in the garden of Eden so you and I could understand exactly how Satan intended to destroy God's plan; for sending the Messiah to earth, to be born woman [through Eve]; and thus providing a way for sinful man to come back to God.

Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam He said, "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, 'Thou shalt not eat of it:' cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of of thy life;"

God reminded Adam that he partook of Satan also. Satan can appear to man in the flesh as he wishes to appear. God gave Adam and Eve only one law, and that was to stay away from Satan. When the sweat pours on your forehead, while painting, working the garden, or at work, you can thank father Adam.

Genesis 3:18 "Thorns also and Thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the filed;"

Were to work by the sweat of our brow to feed our family.

Genesis 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

This verse paints a bleak picture for mankind, and the destination of the body that our soul is housed in, is the dust of the earth that it is made of.

Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

Is this going against the idea of God creating all races on the sixth day of creation? Not at all. Satan knew it was through the womb of this woman Eve, and her daughters to come, that the Messiah would drive his [the devil's] head to the pit, and then to ashes; and destroy him. It was woman that Satan wanted to destroy. Therefore through Eve and her daughters down to Mary that would come "Christ."

The word "living" here is looking forward to the Redeemer, Jesus Christ. For if you are not Christ's, then you are not in the "living", but in Satan. Satan is death. Only in Jesus Christ, and in His name can you or any one of any race have eternal life.

Genesis 3:21 "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

This is the first blood sacrifice, given to cover them and protect them in the shame of their sin. Adam and Eve used fig leaves to hide their shame, however, here it is God that makes the sacrifice to cover the sin.

Our protection for living in this final generation is found in Ephesians 6:10-20. That protection is the armor of God that we must use to fight the spiritual battle of these end times. That battle is not of guns and bullets, but it is fought with words and concepts. It is a spiritual battle with demons and things not seen with the eye, for it will be fought with doctrines and ideas on the battlefield of your mind.

Christ was the blood sacrifice that God gave to all mankind, that we can see and accept to cover our sins. Though animal sacrifices were the acceptable covering temporarily for sin until Christ's death, the only true forgiveness for all sin is in the blood of Jesus Christ. That is the only acceptable way to God. [John 3:16]

Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:-"

This is the documentation that the "Tree of Life" is Jesus Christ. The price that had to be paid first was Jesus Christ's death on the cross, then after the shedding of His blood, all mankind can take freely of Him and have eternal life. Only by the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, and His living as a man, then His sacrifice on the cross could eternal life be offered to man.

Genesis 3:23 "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."

God's purpose for Adam, from the beginning was for Adam to till the ground [Genesis 2:5]. Because of Adam and Eves sin, God took them out of the paradise of Eden, and brought them to a place where he could not till the ground.

Genesis 3:24 "So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

The "way" is the path that the Christ, the "Tree of Life", would come by. That path was through the womb of Eve, and her daughters down to Mary. It is the Cherubim's that would ultimately protect that way, with the "flaming sword" which is God's word, from the onslought of fallen angels, who came to earth to breed with woman, and destroy all woman's seed. This is what caused the flood of Noah's time, as God said in Genesis 6:7.

Genesis 6:8 we read; "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord." Why?

Genesis 6:9; "These are the generations of Noah: [This is Noah's family tree, history]. Noah was a just man and perfect in generations,"

Noah's perfections "perfect in generations" in the original Hebrew text is "Tamim", and means "without blemish as to pedigree". In Noah's day all flesh was blemished or contaminated by the blood of fallen angels, except Noah and his family, Noah's family had a pure "pedigree".

"Tamim" is a technical word for bodily and physical perfection, and not morality; Hence it is used of animals of "sacrificial purity". Genesis 6:9 does not speak of Noah's moral perfection, but tells us he and his family alone preserved their pedigree to keep it pure, in spite of the deceptions and pressures by the fallen angels and their offspring to destroy the "way of the Tree of Life" [Christ] from coming into the world.

Have you been robbed of the simplicity of God's teaching, and the parables that are to give us understanding of His word. Those people [the Kenites} will rob you even of your living [through usury] if you allow it. However even more dangerously, they will infiltrate into your denominations and interpret God's Word into their tradition and false doctrines, which in these days will cause you to be deceived.

http://www.theseason.org

I just read Hammerstone's private interpretation of genesis 3.

I admit that he put great effort to impose and embellish his accusations against Eve, our common mother. Needless to say, I think it very unchristian to bear false witness against anyone.

I find a great many flaws in the assumptions made. I find a great many unanswered questions that would arise based on the conclusions given.

For starters, it is my clear understanding that Adam is indeed the first man placed upon this earth. Can anyone show otherwise?

Second, the author indicates that Satan has a body and can procreate. Can anyone give clear evidence to support such a conclusion?
If so where and when was he born? Who were his parents?

Hello,Job

At your" for starters",Adam was not the first man,if you read the first chapter of Gen,you should see that,God created male and female at the same time,...

Now,why do you think it odd that satan has a body?The two angels who came to Sodom,did they not have bodies,they even ate food with Lot....Now,lrts see what happened in the Garden...


Genesis Chapter 3

"The Fall of Mankind."

This Bible Study is written by Roger Christopherson, and it's transcription/ location
is provided by http://www.theseason.org/


Trees and a serpent are given in this chapter to represent men. God, in fact, calls Himself the Evergreen tree, or Fir tree in Ezekiel 31:8. To understand what, and who this serpent is, we turn to Revelation 20:2 to clear up our understanding. "And He laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan," So we see that it is Satan that is the serpent. Satan also has many other names, and in this final generation he will be known as "the Antichrist", and the "son of perdition".

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

We will not see Christ's coming while we are in these flesh bodies. However, we will see and live through in the flesh the one world system when Satan, the man of sin, also called the son of perdition is worshipped as God. Satan comes at the sixth trump, whereas our Lord Jesus Christ returns at the seventh and last trump.

In the role that Satan will play very shortly as "the Antichrist", God will give him the keys or authority to rule the earth. Jesus talked about this in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. We are also given in Revelation 12:9 the answer that takes all the mystery out of who the serpent of Genesis 3 is; "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." We will see this happen shortly.

Just as the "tree of Life" plays two rolls in the beginning, so also will Satan play two rolls. Satan is present in the Garden of Eden, and he played the role of the "serpent", and the "tree of good and evil". This word "serpent" in the Hebrew text is "Nachash", and is from the root word, # 5172 in Strong's Hebrew dictionary, "meaning to whisper a magic spell, a divine enchanter."

In II Corinthians 11:3, Paul tells us that Satan was "transformed", however in the Greek text it reads; "disguised" as an "angel of light", to deceive Eve.

Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And He said unto the woman, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden"?"

Satan is "more subtil", and wiser then the ways of the world. The word "beast" does not refer only to the animal world, but all living beings, including man. When Satan asked the question to Eve, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" He was not asking the question for the sake of inquiring, but to draw her attention to the matter. This was much like the method that the slick car salesman, or vacuum cleaner salesman uses in breaking down the resistance of the client. He uses the questions to force the person to agree with him. So, within the questions is the key to overcoming the mental barrier, and allowing half truths to be accepted, and twisted the mind of the person to accept a lie as the truth.

Satan's quotation of God, "Ye shall not eat of every tree of the Garden?" is stated in the form of a lie, from what God actually stated in Genesis 2:16 and 17. The exception to "every tree" was, "...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat." That tree [man] is Satan.

This is Satan's first utterance in Scripture, and he knows from the start his opposition to God's word. For it is God's Word in the first earth age that sentenced Satan to death, and that is where his name "son of perdition" comes from. Satan is out to foul up the entire plan of God for the ages, which was to make way for the Christ child, whereby all of God's children can be drawn back to Him.

Genesis 3:2 "And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:"

Genesis 3:3 "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die'."

Satan [the serpent] started the misquoting when he changed the words of God from "the tree of good and evil", [which is Satan the only exception], to "fruit of the trees of the garden". Now we see Eve continues the misquoting of Scripture, and twisting God's Word to change the entire meaning. God said, "Thou shalt surely die."; where as in the confusion caused by Satan's twisting, Eve is showing her ignorance in her statement; "lest ye die". It sounds like Eve just bought a car, and a vacuum cleaner, or worse then that, Satan's lie.

Are we talking about eating fruit from trees, or even trees in this chapter? No, We are talking about symbols for people, which are represented as the trees. When we look up the common word for "trees" in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary, we find the number # 6086. It reads; "ets, ates; from # 6095, stock tree, timber, wood." It is a common tree.

However the trees in the garden of Eden reads, # 6095. We read in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary; "Atsah, aw-tsaw, prime root, prop. to fasten (or make firm), i.e., to close (the eyes): shut." Under # 6095 Hebrew for trees in the garden) page 90 of Strong's Hebrew dictionary, the other reference to this is # 6096.

The # 6096; "Atseh, aw-tseh, from 6095; the spine, (as giving firmness to the body):-backbone." This # 6096 "atseh" is the tree referred to in Genesis 3:3. In referring to the fruit of a tree, then, you are talking about children.

What runs through the backbone of your body? It is your central nervous system. It is controlling the opening, or closing of your eye. In fact it controls every movement that a person makes, as the system continues the process of sending messages to and from your brain, which never stops. All bodies of all mankind are made in the image of God, whether in the soul body [angelic] like of the first earth age, or the physical body we posses in this earth age. Though the appearance [image] is the same, the substance of our physical bodies are different from the soul bodies.

Although manna, the angel food, supported the Israelites in the wilderness [Exodus 16]; when the angels came to earth, as stated in Genesis 6, they survived from the food of physical man.

There is another word in this third verse we must understand, and it is the word "touch". God's command to Eve was; "neither shall ye touch it." In the Hebrew text the number for this word "touch" is # 5060 in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary. It reads; "Naga, neh-gah; a prime root, prop. to touch, i.e., lay the hand upon (for the purpose; euphemism, to lie with a woman), to reach, "

So we see that the warning to Adam and Eve specifically, was to stay away from Satan [called both the "serpent", and the "tree of good and evil"]. The fruit of that tree was not to be taken; and we know that the "fruit" as the results of a sexual relationship between any man and woman is a child. God's command was that Eve "not touch [lay with Satan]." So by reviewing the Hebrew text, we see that the order by God is that Eve not have sexual union with Satan." Eve was a woman living in the flesh, with all the limits of the flesh, while Satan is not of the flesh, but a supernatural person from another dimension.

Genesis 3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die:"

Satan, throughout the entire Scripture, has had that way about him. However, before we continue in Genesis, lets see what Paul and Jesus had to say on this matter. We read in II Corinthians 11:1; "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me." The Apostle Paul is saying, I want to tell you what is really on my heart.

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

"Espoused" is to cause one to become engaged. What is the subject and the object here? The subject is "presenting you as a chaste virgin; while the object is loosing ones virginity." Christ is the husband and we are the bride of Christ. This is using a flesh term to explain a spiritual matter. Virginity is a state of condition relating only to sexual matters of a woman [female], and when Christ called the church His bride, He expects us to act as a bride.

II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." In other words, you turn away from the simplicity of reading God's Word.

The word "beguiled" in the Strong's Greek dictionary is # 1818; "exapatao, ex-ap-at ah-o, from 1537 and 538, to seduce wholly, to beguile, deceive." In # 1537 we read; "ex, shows point of origin".

This verse has only one meaning, and that is not to be wholly seduced, and lose your virginity as Eve did. So in the Greek text this verse would read; "I am afraid your going to lose your virginity as Eve did, who was wholly seduced by the serpent [Satan]." Paul will say later in this chapter [verse 14], "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed [fashioned himself] into an angel of light." Upon Satan's arrival on earth very shortly, he will appear just as Jesus Himself will appear. The word "transformed" in the Greek manuscripts is, "disguised" as an angel of light.

II Corinthians 11:4 "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

If someone preaches another Jesus; another message; a story of some apple on a tree, or any other Satanic type lie or distortion, then mark him well. Or if they bring any child's play into God's House, or short cuts to the Gospel of Christ; Paul is saying that it seems to him that you swallow it wholly. It seems also that the churches of today go hunting for someone to deceive them.

Paul is telling us that when you accept lies for what happened in the Garden of Eden, you are accepting an damnable lie. We know that by accepting this lie, then you are thrown off the understanding of the true "parable of the sower". Friend, there is no way you can understand any of the other parables in the Bible, if you do not understand what happened in the Garden of Eden.

II Corinthians 11:12 "But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we."

Paul is telling us that he is out to jerk the rug out from under these false teachers, to make them straighten up and teach the true Word of God.

II Corinthians 11:13 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ."

They call themselves "apostles of Christ", but they are deceivers, and false apostles. When ministers and teachers of the gospel preach another message, without letting their flock know exactly what happened in the Garden of Eden, they become liars and deceivers to their flocks.

II Corinthians 11:15 "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

When Satan comes again, he will come disguised as Jesus Christ. Friend, if you do not know what happened in the Garden of Eden you will be fooled. For Satan's kids, the "Kenites", the offspring through "Cain" of the sexual relations between Eve and Satan, are paving the road for you to accept Satan upon his [Satan's] arrival to earth.

Remember, "touch" means "to lie with a woman". Tell it like it is.

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Satan is twisting God's Word and telling Eve, "your not going to die". However, when she takes Satan to herself, just the opposite will happen. Her eyes will be closed and her mind shut to the simplicity of God's word. "Knowing" and "evil" are enlightenment in the wrong way.

Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and the tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

Satan is the most beautiful created being that God ever created. Ezekiel 24 tells us that Satan was the most beautiful tree to be desired. Eve took of that fruit of Satan, which is another way of saying that she lost her virginity through the sex act, and Adam also played the game with Eve and Satan.

Genesis 3:7 "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

Once this sin was committed, their eyes were open to wickedness, but closed to truth. Think on this! Jesus told us to learn the "parable of the fig tree" in three of the gospels. This warning is given in Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28, and Luke 21:29; yet most churches of today are completely ignoring God's warning, and following after fairy tales the Kenites are teaching them.

Adam and Eve are in a fig orchard, and not an apple orchard. Do you think that they made apple masks from apple tree leaves to cover their mouths? How silly can you get! Yet this is the type of ignorance being preached from most pulpits today. Adam and Eve made aprons out of fig leaves to cover their private parts, for their sin was the sex act with Satan. Once this sinks into your mind, then you will start to understand the truth that is winding through the entire scriptures. You will see why it was important to the Kenites that you believe a lie, for this lie allows them to virtually take over the duties of the scribes [I Chronicles 2:55]. These Kenites, or sons of Satan, took control of the interpretation of the words that God spoke to His children through the prophets coming out of the Babylonian captivity.

I Chronicles 2:55 "And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez [Jerusalem]; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchatites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab."

The sons of Levi were to be the priests and the keepers of God's house. The Levitical priests were to carry out the duties of the sacrifices, as well as the teachers of the Temple, and the recorders and keepers of God's instructions to His people. These Kenites are not of God, but of that sexual union between Satan and Eve. They are the offspring of Cain, and the oriental woman [from the land of Nod] that he took to wife. The Kenites are not of Abraham, nor are they of Judah, but of their father Rechab, of the lineage of Cain, from the land of Hemath.

Strong's Hebrew dictionary classifies these Kenites under # 7014 and 7017. #7014 states: "Qayin, kah'-yin; the same as 7013 (with the play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe:-Cain, Kenites."

# 7017; "Qiyniy (I Chronicles 2:55), kee-nee'; patron. from 7014, a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin: Kenite." The Kenites is not a member of the tribe of Judah or any other tribe of Israel, but from the tribe of Kajin. The Kenite is not of the seed of Abraham, but they have assumed the role of the Levitical priests because the Israelites allowed them to sit in the seat of Moses and teach their traditions instead of God's Word.

When you come to the understand of what took place in Eden, then you will understand the "parable of the sower and fig tree" which is the key to most of the prophecies of both the Old and New Testaments. To this day, fig leaves symbolize that which is hidden. That thing hidden within Eve's womb was an evil thing. It turned out to be Cain, who was the first murderer, because his father was a murderer and a liar.

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden."

Genesis 3:9 "And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, "Where art thou?"

Genesis 3:10 "And he said, "I heard Thy voice in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."

Genesis 3:11 "And He said, "Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"

God Himself walked and talked with this first man of the Garden of Eden. Adam had the glory, and mercy of contact with almighty God. God loved Adam so much that He formed this special garden just for him and his wife Eve. The law that existed at that time consisted of only one thing; "Don't eat of that one tree". Don't mess around with Satan.

Satan knew God's plan, that the Christ would come through the womb of Eve, and Satan was out to destroy that plan of God's. Satan wanted to destroy the seed of the woman, meaning "Christ". Satan tried to see to it that the lineage of Christ would become polluted, and that the promised Messiah would be unable to give Himself for the perfect sacrifice, so that men and women could be brought back to the Father, our God.

We see in the sixth chapter that Satan tried again to destroy the plan of God, when he sent his fallen angels to destroy woman again. The results of that try by Satan was the creation of hybrids [the Nephilim, or Giants].

Genesis 3:12 "And the man said, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

Adam is trying to put the blame for his actions and sin on his wife. We see that not much has changed in the past six thousand years. Adam was responsible because it was he that was placed in charge, and given instruction to not mess around with Satan.

Genesis 3:13 "And the Lord God said unto the woman, "What is this that thou hast done?" And the woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

This is the same reason that Paul used in his concern about the end generation. He worried that the Church, or body of Christ would not understand that the false Christ will come disguised as the true Christ. They would rather hear and believe fairy tales then the truth of God's Word. Are you ashamed to talk about what happened in the garden of Eden with a friend? If you are, my friend, you have serious problems for you are living in a time when all prophecy of this age will come to a conclusion, and you will be deceived as Eve was.

Eve stated just as Paul quoted her; "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Eve had intercourse with Satan and lost her virginity. From that union came Cain, the father of all Kenites. Learn the truth.

Genesis 3:14 "And the Lord God said unto the serpent, "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"

This is God speaking to Satan. God is cursing Satan above all living creatures. This is a figure of speech, meaning you are the lowest thing of all creation. Now God continues to speak to the serpent [Satan].

Genesis 3:15 "And I [God] will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman [Eve], and between thy seed [the Kenites] and her Seed [Jesus Christ]; It [Christ] shall bruise thy [Satan's] head, and thou [Satan] shalt bruise His [Christ's] heel."

Eve's seed is our Lord Jesus Christ. While Satan's seed are the children, to the last generation, called the Kenites. Those offspring are born from the sexual union between Eve and Satan [the serpent, and the tree of good and evil]. God is telling us that He will put trouble between Eve's children [through Adam and Seth], and Satan's offspring through Cain, called the Kenites.

It is Jesus Christ that shall bruise the head of Satan, at Christ's return at the second advent; while it was Satan's children the Kenites, [not brother Judah] that bruised the heel of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary. This was done when the spikes were driven through Christ's heel, as He hung on the cross to pay the full price for our sins, once and for all.

Most "men of God" acknowledge that Genesis 3:15 is talking about the death of Jesus Christ, when He was nailed to the cross for our sins. They recognize that "seed" is referring to the children of the woman "Eve", yet somehow they just want to spiritualize everything else that happened in the Garden of Eden between Eve and the two men [Satan and Adam]. The "seed" in the Hebrew is called "zirmah", and in the Greek it is "sperma". We in the English call it "sperm", and in Strongs Hebrew Dictionary # 2233; "Posterity, carnally, child, fruitful". Friend, it can't be any clearer. The seed of Satan's "posterity" are the "Kenites", while Adam's posterity is in Christ, and of the pure bloodline through Seth.

Until you understand what really took place in the Garden of Eden, and why; it will be difficult for you to grow up and mature in the Word of God, and in true Christianity.

Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

This is God's instruction to the woman. Did God say that He would give Eve a tummy ache for eating too many apple seeds? No; the word in any language that you translate it in, is "conception". To "conceive" is to be impregnated with a child. This places the woman's position in the home under the man. You may say, well, did Jesus teach that? Just the asking of the question alone reflects your understanding of God's Word. Turn to Matthew 13, and see what Jesus said about what happened in the beginning. Jesus is answering His disciples, and telling them that if you don't understand this [the parable of the sower] you are not going to understand any of My parables.

Remember how Jesus told the "Parable of the sower"; how the good man planted the seed, and the enemy came in the night and planted another seed. That enemy was Satan, and as we are seeing in Genesis 3, he planted the bad seed in Eve. That is why God put enmity between the "Kenites" [Satan's seed], and Jesus Christ, and caused the Kenites to kill the Messiah, Jesus Christ. After Jesus told his parable of the sower, His disciples asked Him why He always talked in parables in public. Then in Matthew 13:11 Jesus answered.

Matthew 13:11 "He [Jesus] answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of heaven, but to them it is not given".

God simply does not want these scribes and Kenite Jewish leaders to understand. They are the negative part of God's plan.

In Matthew 13:37 Jesus is going to explain to the disciples the "parable of the sower" [fig tree]; "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;"

"The Son of man" as it is used here is in reference to Adam, and not Christ [per reference from the Hebrew Massorah text]. Jesus is not speaking in parable here, but explaining one.

Matthew 13:38 "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;"

The "world" is this place we live in and walk on in this earth age, and we see here we are not talking about apple seeds. The "tares" are the children of the wicked one who is Satan. Those children are called Kenites.

Matthew 13:39 "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

The "devil" is known by many names, such as the "tree of good and evil", and the "serpent" here in Genesis 3, but he is Satan. Though many would like to separate the good and the bad seed now, Jesus is telling us that that is the job of the angels.

Matthew 13:40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

If you do not understand what happened in this parable, then you will be ignorant of who the Kenites [the tares] really are. This will leave you open to the deceptions that are covering the earth in these final days, and you will be taken up by them. Satan's kids, the Kenites, infiltrated the religious ranks of the Jewish leaders in Babylon [I Chronicles 2:55, and Ezra 2:43-65], and today they have infiltrated the Christian ranks of the Church leadership.

Understand that the product of Eve's sin was bearing a child by Satan, and that child's name was "Cain". Jesus explained this parable of what went on in the garden of Eden so you and I could understand exactly how Satan intended to destroy God's plan; for sending the Messiah to earth, to be born woman [through Eve]; and thus providing a way for sinful man to come back to God.

Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam He said, "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, 'Thou shalt not eat of it:' cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of of thy life;"

God reminded Adam that he partook of Satan also. Satan can appear to man in the flesh as he wishes to appear. God gave Adam and Eve only one law, and that was to stay away from Satan. When the sweat pours on your forehead, while painting, working the garden, or at work, you can thank father Adam.

Genesis 3:18 "Thorns also and Thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the filed;"

Were to work by the sweat of our brow to feed our family.

Genesis 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

This verse paints a bleak picture for mankind, and the destination of the body that our soul is housed in, is the dust of the earth that it is made of.

Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

Is this going against the idea of God creating all races on the sixth day of creation? Not at all. Satan knew it was through the womb of this woman Eve, and her daughters to come, that the Messiah would drive his [the devil's] head to the pit, and then to ashes; and destroy him. It was woman that Satan wanted to destroy. Therefore through Eve and her daughters down to Mary that would come "Christ."

The word "living" here is looking forward to the Redeemer, Jesus Christ. For if you are not Christ's, then you are not in the "living", but in Satan. Satan is death. Only in Jesus Christ, and in His name can you or any one of any race have eternal life.

Genesis 3:21 "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

This is the first blood sacrifice, given to cover them and protect them in the shame of their sin. Adam and Eve used fig leaves to hide their shame, however, here it is God that makes the sacrifice to cover the sin.

Our protection for living in this final generation is found in Ephesians 6:10-20. That protection is the armor of God that we must use to fight the spiritual battle of these end times. That battle is not of guns and bullets, but it is fought with words and concepts. It is a spiritual battle with demons and things not seen with the eye, for it will be fought with doctrines and ideas on the battlefield of your mind.

Christ was the blood sacrifice that God gave to all mankind, that we can see and accept to cover our sins. Though animal sacrifices were the acceptable covering temporarily for sin until Christ's death, the only true forgiveness for all sin is in the blood of Jesus Christ. That is the only acceptable way to God. [John 3:16]

Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:-"

This is the documentation that the "Tree of Life" is Jesus Christ. The price that had to be paid first was Jesus Christ's death on the cross, then after the shedding of His blood, all mankind can take freely of Him and have eternal life. Only by the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, and His living as a man, then His sacrifice on the cross could eternal life be offered to man.

Genesis 3:23 "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."

God's purpose for Adam, from the beginning was for Adam to till the ground [Genesis 2:5]. Because of Adam and Eves sin, God took them out of the paradise of Eden, and brought them to a place where he could not till the ground.

Genesis 3:24 "So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

The "way" is the path that the Christ, the "Tree of Life", would come by. That path was through the womb of Eve, and her daughters down to Mary. It is the Cherubim's that would ultimately protect that way, with the "flaming sword" which is God's word, from the onslought of fallen angels, who came to earth to breed with woman, and destroy all woman's seed. This is what caused the flood of Noah's time, as God said in Genesis 6:7.

Genesis 6:8 we read; "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord." Why?

Genesis 6:9; "These are the generations of Noah: [This is Noah's family tree, history]. Noah was a just man and perfect in generations,"

Noah's perfections "perfect in generations" in the original Hebrew text is "Tamim", and means "without blemish as to pedigree". In Noah's day all flesh was blemished or contaminated by the blood of fallen angels, except Noah and his family, Noah's family had a pure "pedigree".

"Tamim" is a technical word for bodily and physical perfection, and not morality; Hence it is used of animals of "sacrificial purity". Genesis 6:9 does not speak of Noah's moral perfection, but tells us he and his family alone preserved their pedigree to keep it pure, in spite of the deceptions and pressures by the fallen angels and their offspring to destroy the "way of the Tree of Life" [Christ] from coming into the world.

Have you been robbed of the simplicity of God's teaching, and the parables that are to give us understanding of His word. Those people [the Kenites} will rob you even of your living [through usury] if you allow it. However even more dangerously, they will infiltrate into your denominations and interpret God's Word into their tradition and false doctrines, which in these days will cause you to be deceived.

http://www.theseason.org
 

HammerStone

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Amazing Grace, you pretty much said what I planned to after reading the initial question from the stranger.

Stranger, no harm, no foul - I recognize that people feel very strongly in the other direction - frankly it doesn't bother me if you or someone else doesn't believe the way I do on this topic. I simply enjoy discussion and study about it.

AG hit the nail on the head - I think the passage in Matthew makes the statement because that's how it works in heaven when the angels follow the rules. We know from Scripture that Satan and his followers did not. I don't think the verse really addresses the physical incompacity beyond that. This is not exactly a new concept - we have so many mythologies of "god-like" beings and men/women producing mighty children. It's not to say that these instances are at all true, but simply to point out that the understanding of Genesis - in what I believe is true or I wouldn't post it on the site - and books like Enoch do establish a precedent for this.

As far as the sex part - this is an area I struggle with because the idea seems to be coming from my study (and others) that sex was the focus of the sin. It was not - to try and say it another way, the knowledge from Satan is the sin in not listening to God, but the physical act of sex was a part of this. This is why later references in the same chapter to the Tree of Life (Jesus) and in Revelation are not about the awkward notion of sexuality with Christ. I think this is why the metaphors were used, because even a traditional understanding of the passage (as fruit) bears this ultimate meaning out.

God bless as well, and thank you for a pleasant post to make me think as well! :)
 

tomwebster

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Hey Tom, was that post addressed to me?
Why would you assume that I wouldn't read something you posted...especially if it was addressed to me??
I don't believe that the three earth ages and some of the thoughts that come with it is a direct salvation issue, therefore I'm not trying to start a war over it!!
But the fact of the matter is that the things we are talking about are only vagely stated in Genesis. It could possibly mean what you think it means, but it could also mean what I think it means. All I was trying to point out is that it is possible to have opposing opinions on such a subject, but to still discuss the topic without trying to make the other person feel like they are engaging in heresy.
...I never mind talking about the differing ideas that Christians have, it's how we learn and grow! But too often lately discussion has broken down into insults and fights. Surely you want to aviod that as well!!?

....


No! I don't see your name on it anywhere!

You can believe anything you want, hopefully, some how, you will know who the enemy is in the end. The vast majority will worship him thinking he's Christ. If a person, a Christian bows to Satan what will happens? What is it when one, of their own free will, turns away to follow the enemy? See, it is a salvation issue.
 

Rach1370

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No! I don't see your name on it anywhere!

You can believe anything you want, hopefully, some how, you will know who the enemy is in the end. The vast majority will worship him thinking he's Christ. If a person, a Christian bows to Satan what will happens? What is it when one, of their own free will, turns away to follow the enemy? See, it is a salvation issue.

well, forgive me for assuming...it was right after my post and wasn't addressed to anyone at all....

As far as the rest....how on earth would my beliefs as they stand now, open me up to believing in Satan??? Just because I don't believe that Satan had sex with Eve, doesn't mean I don't fully recognise what evil he is. My only Lord and Savior is Jesus, and in this life I am very careful to test the spirits and pray about anything before I place my trust in it. And in the end, whenever that may be, I do not fear that I will 'accidently' believe that Satan is Jesus, because Jesus told us that when He arrived, everyone will know instantly. If I have to be told by someone else that "Jesus is here!", or I turn on the tv one day and hear "Jesus is here!"....then that is Satan.

One of the really big problems I have with the whole "Eve and Satan got friendly" idea, is that by making the orginal sin all about sex, you take the focus off the big issue. Pride...Satans sin was pride, as was Adam and Eve's. They all believed that they didn't need God. Satan wanted to be God...he felt all that glory was his due. Adam and Eve thoought they could be their own gods...free to make their own choices, free to disregard God in any and every way. It is the same sin that we battle today. I can't remember who said it, but it fits...."Pride is a mother, pregnant with all the other sins". It's our ownn pride, our own sense of self worth and importance that leads us into all our other sins...including sexual sins. I truly believe that it is a really big mistake to overlook that main "original sin"....and by making Eve's sin about sex, you're in danger of doing just that.
 

tomwebster

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Rach,
Not sex, disobedience!

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eve knew this command of God. Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch (H5060) it, lest ye die.

H5060, נגע, nâga‛ A primitive root; properly to touch, that is, lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphemistically, to lie with a woman) ; by implication to reach (figuratively to arrive, acquire) ; violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.) : - beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

Sex is not a sin in a marriage relationship. Adam and Eve disobeyed God "touching" the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when God commanded not to.

 

Rach1370

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Rach,
Not sex, disobedience!
...
Sex is not a sin in a marriage relationship. Adam and Eve disobeyed God "touching" the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when God commanded not to.

Ok, disobedience...pride to think they were worthy to make their own call, to act against God.

But if the main point of your idea is disobedience, why does it matter so much (you previously stated it was a salvation issue at the core) if Eve had sex with Satan? Be it actual fruit that she partook of, or sex, it shouldn't change the core message that Satan is evil and that through pride and disobedience the human race fell.
 

the stranger

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First, Light, I have still not fully read your post. That is one long post and hopefully in time I will get to it all.

Grace and HammerStone, thank you for your responses. I won't go into to much detail but maybe just a couple more questions concerning this view.



Genesis 6 (New King James Version)

Genesis 6

The Wickedness and Judgment of Man
[sup]1[/sup] Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, [sup]2[/sup] that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
[sup]3[/sup] And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive[sup][a][/sup] with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”



Now this passage would most likely be the most used passage to help support your claim, but of course, I am sure this could be a whole topic of it's self, but what I want to ficus on is a couple questions relating to the same.

Now Grace stated that a belief is all angels are related to being male, thus one reason they cannot reproduce. I actually, up on my own studies, agree with this statement, that generally all angels seem to be male in gender or perhaps better put, masciline in their description. In saying that, if God is good (which He is) and if He created for Adam a suitable helper (which He did in Eve) because there was none that suited his need, than how is it that God would create angels being male, that is, being in need of physical and other needs, with God never placing in His creation with what they need, though angels have been around long before the world and God created Eve shortly after He made Adam? Would God force angels to live in lust forever being a good and just God? Would heaven be much of a heaven when even Paul tells men to marry as in it being better than to burn with lust?

Also stated was that what was not done in heaven (the fulfilling of lust) but allowed to be done on earth. I guess implying that when angels decided to follow Satan in his rebellion and was cast down to earth with Satan, that here, earth, they could and decided to fulfill their lust. What I do not understand with this view is this: Humans were created with the needs of the flesh from the start, before and after the sin. Would not the very nature of angels, before and after their fall, also remain the same? If so, has God caused angels to live in lust for all eternity? This just does not add up to me. I want to relate these two questions with the following scripture:




1 John 2:16-17 (New King James Version)
[sup]16[/sup] For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. [sup]17[/sup] And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.




Now to me, these verses seem to indicate that lust of the flesh is of this world only, and not of out of this world. Now it was said that perhaps lust was only apparent for angels on this earth, but again, does that mean that the nature of angels had been changed?





1 Corinthians 15:39-45 (New King James Version)
[sup]39[/sup] All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh[sup][a][/sup] of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
[sup]40[/sup] There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. [sup]41[/sup] There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
[sup]42[/sup] So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. [sup]43[/sup] It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. [sup]44[/sup] It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. [sup]45[/sup] And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[sup][b][/sup] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.


My main point here is that it would seem just as angels are spirit:


Psalm 104:4 (New King James Version)

[sup]4[/sup] Who makes His angels spirits,
His ministers a flame of fire.







then if we too, in our new bodies, are of the spirit nature, and we will be with out the fleshly lust of this world, since it is only among this world, just like Jesus states, us being like angels, it would seem certainly at this point, the resurrection, all lust will be gone, though still earth being in place. So if we are like the angels at the resurrection, and will no longer have lust, yet the world still in being, than how is it that the angels of old somehow were different as to having this ability on earth, and do you believe this is still acurring today?






Romans 8:13 (New King James Version)
[sup]13[/sup] For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.




This passage just also seeming to tell that the lust of the flesh reside in the body alone, and will not be in effect once our earthly bodies are no more. If so, why is it or would it not be the same for angels?





1 Peter 4:1-2 (New King James Version)

1 Peter 4
[sup]1[/sup] Therefore, since Christ suffered for us[sup][a][/sup] in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, [sup]2[/sup] that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.




(Just a basic repeat of the last statement)

==========================================================================================================





Genesis 2:8-20 (New King James Version)

Life in God’s Garden

[sup]8[/sup] The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. [sup]9[/sup] And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.



Just one more quick question. If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is meant to be a metaphor, do you also believe the tree of life, and every other tree in the garden (for that matter, how about the garden it's self) is also a metaphor?


I will read even furthure into your stude later, but for now, I guess these would be the questions that I would have a hard time getting past.


Thank you for your intense study as well as sharing it with all of us, and not to mention, allowing it to be questioned. Thank you brother and I will talk with you soon.

God bless
 

tomwebster

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Ok, disobedience...pride to think they were worthy to make their own call, to act against God.

But if the main point of your idea is disobedience, why does it matter so much (you previously stated it was a salvation issue at the core) if Eve had sex with Satan? Be it actual fruit that she partook of, or sex, it shouldn't change the core message that Satan is evil and that through pride and disobedience the human race fell.


It might not be important to you, and if it isn't fine. I want to know who the enemy is. This might also be something new to you but Satan has offspring in this world today that are accomplishing the negative part of the plan. If you don't understand the beginning how will you ever understand the end? You won't and that could be dangerous.
 

the stranger

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In thinking about these things briefly, I guess, probably as already stated, this view (of the sin of Eve having sex with Lucifer) would be on the take of the angels becoming something they are not, so to speak, thus by taking human form, instead of staying 100% spirit, thus allowing their nature to expand to human nature as allowing than the lust and sex to be present. If this is correct, out side of the story in debate ( Genesis 6:1-3 ) is there any other scripture given that states angels took human form outside of it being the direct will of God?

We hear of demon possession and lying spirits, but is there a story out side the above verse describing the possibility that fallen angels can at any time, or ever could at any time, resort to taking on human form for sex purposes? As we know, there has been many times that angels took on human form in the bible, but in all the passages that make this very clear it has always been the will of God of Godly angels. If so, could they or would they have sex, even if the body function allowed for it?


If the "sons of God (in Gen. 6) were the sons of Seth. and not fallen angels (which it is interesting to note, other than this "possibility" we always see the word angel, not sons of God, used to note those who have taken human form, and none apart from the will and order of God of which I know, is there any other scripture to be used of such a case? That I am aware of, there is no other reports of angels having sex with humans other than what is assumed in Gen. 6 by some.

In any event, however, even if angels could, up on their own will, become like human, does this or would this change their spirit nature? If Jesus was one who would be tempted, would He have been tempted after His resurrection from the tomb for lustful reasons, or at this point, are all such temptations gone? It seems according to Paul in relating to us, the temptations will no longer be there when we are resurrected. Of course, however, this is a different time frame.

One last thing. Would God make it possible for angels to have sex, including Lucifer, if He did not permit them to marry, which is the only way sex is Godly? If so, again, it would seem unjust for a God to make angel beings lust if it is something God would never allow in any circumstances.


Any how, thanks for reading my late night ramblings and may God bless you all.
 

Job one

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The Stranger has brought up some interesting questions which the proponents of this "new christian doctrine" need to give clear answers that all may be edified.

I have a tree specific question. In the midst of the garden god planted two trees. One the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the other being the tree of life.

If, as has been taught in the OP, the tree of knowledge of good and evil supposedly represents sex with Satan, then what does the tree of life represent?

What do all the other desirable trees in the Garden represent?
 

tomwebster

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In thinking about these things briefly, I guess, probably as already stated, this view (of the sin of Eve having sex with Lucifer) would be on the take of the angels becoming something they are not, so to speak, thus by taking human form, instead of staying 100% spirit, thus allowing their nature to expand to human nature as allowing than the lust and sex to be present. If this is correct, out side of the story in debate ( Genesis 6:1-3 ) is there any other scripture given that states angels took human form outside of it being the direct will of God?

We hear of demon possession and lying spirits, but is there a story out side the above verse describing the possibility that fallen angels can at any time, or ever could at any time, resort to taking on human form for sex purposes? As we know, there has been many times that angels took on human form in the bible, but in all the passages that make this very clear it has always been the will of God of Godly angels. If so, could they or would they have sex, even if the body function allowed for it?


If the "sons of God (in Gen. 6) were the sons of Seth. and not fallen angels (which it is interesting to note, other than this "possibility" we always see the word angel, not sons of God, used to note those who have taken human form, and none apart from the will and order of God of which I know, is there any other scripture to be used of such a case? That I am aware of, there is no other reports of angels having sex with humans other than what is assumed in Gen. 6 by some.

In any event, however, even if angels could, up on their own will, become like human, does this or would this change their spirit nature? If Jesus was one who would be tempted, would He have been tempted after His resurrection from the tomb for lustful reasons, or at this point, are all such temptations gone? It seems according to Paul in relating to us, the temptations will no longer be there when we are resurrected. Of course, however, this is a different time frame.

One last thing. Would God make it possible for angels to have sex, including Lucifer, if He did not permit them to marry, which is the only way sex is Godly? If so, again, it would seem unjust for a God to make angel beings lust if it is something God would never allow in any circumstances.


Any how, thanks for reading my late night ramblings and may God bless you all.



Just put it on the shelf for now, there are a lot of things you haven't been taught. But you are not alone, because of the many "one-verse-Charlie’s" in our church pulpits these days. They will be held accountable for their lack of shepherding. Someday you will understand.

Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
Amo 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amo 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

The famine for the Word of God is evident on this forum
 

Rach1370

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It might not be important to you, and if it isn't fine. I want to know who the enemy is. This might also be something new to you but Satan has offspring in this world today that are accomplishing the negative part of the plan. If you don't understand the beginning how will you ever understand the end? You won't and that could be dangerous.

I think this must be the point where we agree to disagree!! But I would have one request of you...please do not presume to know my faith and understanding. You tell me that I will be in danger of being decieved by Satan, that I will not understand the end...I can just as easily point all of that back at you....and it would be just as presumptuous of me.
You believe one thing, fine. I disagree with you, but I do not question your knowledge or state that your belief will eventually errode your relationship with Christ. So please don't do that with me.

The famine for the Word of God is evident on this forum

It very much depends. I believe there is a vast difference between Christians differing in secondary issues, and then outright heresy. Of course, both are evident on this forum! But I urge you please, be sure you are not insulting and ostracizing a fellow Christian over an issue that we are free to debate on.
 

the stranger

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I agree with Rach. Just because one cannot come up with the answers to support what they believe does not mean the person asking the questions does not know the word of God. Does not Timothy tell us to always be prepared to support what we believe?

I think we can disagree on the secondary issues and be just fine, as no two Christians will ever agree on everything, but for you to take the words of God that He has put in my heart for thirteen years, and say they represent a famine for the word of God, I do find insulting. I always try my best, through the Holy Spirit, to take all things as literal as possible, but with the scripture that cannot be taken as such, there we will have unclear answers until the end.

Point being, I could easily throw insults out as I personally do not see this doctrine being supported having any real merit to stand behind, and really seems to put into jeopardy what we take as literal and what we assume is metaphoric. In saying that, every one is entitled to their own belief, and i will not through insults at you for believing in such, but I would ask just the same of you.


It is Jesus we stand on, not our own wisdom, my brother. If every Christian had it right, every other Christian would not be wrong. Point is we can disagree, my friend, but please, let us keep the personal insults out of it, as it certainly takes the joy out of biblical discussions.

God bless
 

n2thelight

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I Corinthians 11:10 "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

Why,because of the angels?
 

Job one

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As christians does it become us to be merciful and compassionate and to judge righteously?

Is it not our christian duty to forgive?

Is it our christian duty to reserve judgement upon any issue until we know all the facts and circumstances regarding others?

Should we, as christians, always avoid Satan’s perpetual sin of fault finding and “being accusers of the brethren” and instead, look for the good in others?

Should we, as christians, follow God’s commandment to “Honor thy Father and thy Mother?

Should we, as christians, remember that Christ taught that as we judge, so shall we be judged by the judge of all?

Should we, as christians, Stop, ponder, meditate, search and understand that the entire creative process, including the fall of Adam and Eve is given to us in the most brief account possible, all within a handful of pages. This account is perhaps the epitome of brevity relating to galactic events of creation and implementation of the whole human family.

Others may judge Adam and Eve harshly and utterly fail to see that in fact they acted responsibly in implementing the wise and eternal plan of God which was designed to allow us unlimited opportunity to achieve all that one could in this life in preparation for that which we may inherit through the merciful merits and atonement of Jesus Christ.

I for one do honor them for the great work they have done to allow us the chance to receive as joint heirs with Christ, “all that the Father hath.” For I truly believe that when full light is shed on the issue relating to Adam and Eve and their role played that we need look only to ourselves and associated personal responsibility to work out our salvation before the Lord.

Perhaps it might be well to explore and examine more accurately a more complete discovery relating to Adam and Eve and all that they may have faced in a separate topic.
 

australia

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Hi guys! I can't help but feel many people overlook the obvious...

When the bible talks of ... "sons of satan" ...

...those who are "sons of Satan" are those who worship Satan and follow his chaos and evil.

I looked for your quoted term "sons of Satan" in my KJV and couldn't find it. You might be using a different bible version but you won't say.

Perhaps you were referencing 1Jn 3:12?

1Jn 3:12 only references one son of Satan. Can you show me the other verses?

Thank you in advance.
 

australia

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Just because I don't believe that Satan had sex with Eve...

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled [G1818] Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

[G1818]
ἐξαπατάω
exapataō

From G1537 and G538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive.



'to seduce wholly' = 100% seduction; not 80%, not 90%, etc.


I tend to believe that when two or more sexually active individuals interact wherein 100% seduction takes place, it's highly likely an act of sex will have resulted.

Would you care to explain how you believe it wouldn't?
 

HammerStone

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In saying that, if God is good (which He is) and if He created for Adam a suitable helper (which He did in Eve) because there was none that suited his need, than how is it that God would create angels being male, that is, being in need of physical and other needs, with God never placing in His creation with what they need, though angels have been around long before the world and God created Eve shortly after He made Adam? Would God force angels to live in lust forever being a good and just God? Would heaven be much of a heaven when even Paul tells men to marry as in it being better than to burn with lust?

Well, the question about angels being only male is one I've revisited. In the Bible there are no female angels - but I reminded myself I need to be careful when I use an absence of something in the Bible as a negative proof.

As far as angels being tempted - well I think that question is a fairly clear yes from the Bible. Satan himself being the case in point. Although the temptation was not sexual, it was a desire for God's throne. In theory, that is a temptation that Satan would have wrestled with in his heart. We know this to be the case when dealing with sin which we've all experienced - the temptation never really goes away. Satan was not tempted at one single instances by God's power and His throne.

Now to me, these verses seem to indicate that lust of the flesh is of this world only, and not of out of this world. Now it was said that perhaps lust was only apparent for angels on this earth, but again, does that mean that the nature of angels had been changed?
Well, go back to the fallen state of the world. Again, look at Satan, he certainly held lust and he had pride.

I feel like the reminder of your thoughts can be addressed in a summation with one last point.

I think we'll agree that nothing happens apart from the will of Father. We know from Scripture (and logic) that it does not place evil within God's will, but that God's will comes about regardless of evil. We also know from Scripture than angels are very powerful. They have the bodies to hold up before God, can run messages (the meaning of their name) between us and God, they can fight, they can oversee things (Daniel), and other various attributes. What's curious to me is that they're often depicted and inspiring fear where they appear (Daniel, etc.), but there are instances where they appear (Acts) as a man or two men who seem pretty normal. I can't speculate on what specific "abilities or powers" the angels have, but what I've listed alone places them in the supernatural realm.

Just one more quick question. If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is meant to be a metaphor, do you also believe the tree of life, and every other tree in the garden (for that matter, how about the garden it's self) is also a metaphor?

Good question. I think the primary two are metaphors - one could suppose that the trees may have been helpful angels or something of the sort, but I feel that it's probably referring to food as we know it. I think it's the case where God spoke about this and Adam (and Eve) knew what he was talking about.

If this is correct, out side of the story in debate ( Genesis 6:1-3 ) is there any other scripture given that states angels took human form outside of it being the direct will of God?

Not that I am aware of, but again Lucifer fought/fights against God and his angels.

One last thing. Would God make it possible for angels to have sex, including Lucifer, if He did not permit them to marry, which is the only way sex is Godly? If so, again, it would seem unjust for a God to make angel beings lust if it is something God would never allow in any circumstances.

I don't see an issue with this and here's why. Even in our fallen, struggling state, we are told that God's first. In the angels case, they don't have flesh by nature and they directly serve the will of God. Of course more will be expected from them. For this, I think of Hebrews 2:7 and Psalm 8:5. The implication is that angels are higher than us. Recall the lessons of the Bible - the parable of the talents and elsewhere. To whom much is given, much is expected.
 

tomwebster

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Dec 11, 2006
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Good question. I think the primary two are metaphors - one could suppose that the trees may have been helpful angels or something of the sort, but I feel that it's probably referring to food as we know it. I think it's the case where God spoke about this and Adam (and Eve) knew what he was talking about.

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I just want to clarify what you are saying here, hammer. Are you saying the "fruit" eaten by Eve was food?